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Join us in the latest HR Leaders episode as we explore HR's pivotal role in driving business strategy. Our expert panel shares insights on how HR leaders are aligning strategies with organizational goals to boost performance, enhance well-being, and foster a culture of innovation.

Learn how top HR professionals are partnering with businesses to elevate productivity, engagement, and continuous growth.

🎓 In this episode, you will learn:

1. Strategies for aligning HR with business objectives to drive organizational performance.

2. How to leverage data and analytics to identify performance gaps and create targeted interventions.

3. Best practices for building adaptable HR teams that can mobilize quickly in response to strategic needs.

4. Insights into how HR can shift from enforcing policies to creating experiences and journeys that align with business goals.

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Chris Rainey 0:06

Let me introduce you to our amazing panelists. We've got what, Matthias router, who's a Senior Vice President and Global Head of Leadership Excellence at Siemens. We've got Lina bodka who, who's the people partner for Legos, chief digital and technology officer at the LEGO Group. We've got Paul Olivia Renaud cross, who's a senior vice president HR for Europe and Africa at door macabre. Steven Fisher Toivo, who's the people and culture director for Scandinavia at Japan tobacco International. And last, or at least, our good friend, gallena Miranda, who's a senior advisor and member of the Science Advisory Board at best. Rap, welcome everyone. How are you all? I take, I take a deep breath there to get everyone's names all the way. I barely made it through. I was getting like headed in. Take a deep breath.

Good afternoon.

Nice to see you again. I think I should answer you're the veteran of the panels. Paul Olivia, I'm going to pick on you first and jump in. Could you share, how are you steering the HR function towards, you know, the overall strategy of change right now. You know so many companies are going through a significant transformation right now. We'd love to hear from everyone to kick us off, how you're really steering HR towards the overall business strategy of change? Yeah.

Paul-Olivier Raynaud-Lacroze 1:24

I mean, as you say, Chris, I think you know, change is here to stay as we as we all know, and I think it's a constant pattern of our job as HR now to help the business through whatever change we we need to do. So I think the way I do it, you know, with my team at macabre, first of all, and I will not go to specifics, perhaps now I will stay quite high level. Of course, HR has to understand the business strategy, you know, what do we want to achieve, where in which direction we are going, so that we can adapt whatever processes, whatever organization we have, you know, towards this strategy. And it means, indeed, scanning, for me, also the organization, you know, trying to understand what is the best design, you know, how we shape it going forward again to meet the strategy. And then this journey in between is indeed the journey of change. So we need to equip, you know, our managers. So I think it's sort of around, you know, of course, change management, you know, equipping the managers and the people with the right skills and competencies, a lot of communication, a lot of alignment, you know, a lot of explanation is necessary. And I think in all these activities, HR plays a key role to support the management, the top management, local management, in this journey. And so it's only a combination of, you know, communication, understanding, the business strategy, organizational design, competency, building all of that is needed. So it's really a multi factorial, you know, type of work that HR needs to do to make sure the business is ready for change.

Chris Rainey 2:57

Love that. What would you say? Some been some of your biggest wins over the last couple of years? Because there's been a lot of change. Yeah,

Paul-Olivier Raynaud-Lacroze 3:06

exactly. I mean, you know, like two, two years ago or 18 months ago, more, exactly we changed that. Don Caba from a very decentralized organization where each region, or each continent, if you want, was doing a bit of everything. So every region adds its own, you know, it Rand, you know, marketing departments, and that meant that a lot of things were done twice, you know, or three times, and there was little best practice sharing. So we moved to an organization where, now, you know, we build global functions. You know, we still have, of course, some regional view in terms of, let's say, the selling process, because customers are more local sometimes. But, you know, really building global organization in terms of it, in terms of R and D, in terms of finance, etc, to really extract, you know, synergies, to really share best practice much quicker, to really, you know, invest where it's needed. So that was achieved by, you know, and of course, more was done than what I just described in two minutes earlier. Yeah, for us, a major achievement. And we have seen already, more agility, more speed, less duplication of activities. So, you know, at least for us at Don Acaba, that was a very good success.

Chris Rainey 4:20

I'm sure that's ongoing, right? That's a big culture shift,

yeah, for

the business. How about you? Lena,

Line Bødker Høegh 4:30

yeah, some good, good stuff there from Olivier. What I've been seeing happening is, of course, our ability to constantly engage at the right moments, right so how do you do that, both, as you said, probably in being in the right conversations, but also, how do we mobilize as an HR organization, and how do we become adaptable to whatever needs to be addressed? And they are what I think. We have done in an interesting way recently is to take a part of our HR function, our HR business partners, and they would typically be working towards a specific business area, but we have actually said part of their time they need to be part of a flexible HR business partner pool that is then dedicated to where we have those strategic, specific super important for us to win on activities, so we can mobilize and not be stuck or locked in an organizational construct. That's a little bit of a new thinking, but it's playful, it's it's a new territory, and we start to see, start to see the effect of that. So that's that's quite impressive when it comes to some wins. I think we have been on a digital transformation the past few years, and here key element have been our ability to transition into a new product way of working construct where we would have both some tech side sitting in the digital organization, and then the product people sitting in the product side, aligning and uniting people in that common space the way you might be driven by different priorities, but wanna you know, deliver on certain things together, that has been interesting to See. And now we have 200 of these product teams running but full speed, and we start to see that paying off towards the flexibility we need. So, yeah, just just some interesting observations, sharing,

Guillermo Miranda 6:38

yeah, yeah. Maybe one thing that we have all realized is that the role of HR is being reframed. And I like the examples that you gave already, and how the business is embracing this. But if you think about what was happening before, and all the change that we have with it, not just the digital transformation, but the effect of the pandemic, etc, is HR is no longer running in a parallel route is in the highway with the business dealing with the day to day. And that change of the paradigm requires adjustments from both the business interest, the business people and our own HR teams that need to be in the highway dealing with the day to day, bringing the business acceleration that is needed with the talent component behind and the skills that are needed for the future. So the business value is a day to day exercise. Is not an annual budget exercise that was brought in the paradigm like 10 years ago, but reframing is important so people can adjust to what is expected. How do we interact on a day to day? So getting the highway that's where the battle is being fight.

Matthias Reuter 8:03

Fully, fully agree, can very much relate to that. So the reframing and also recognizing the paradigm shifts that we currently see in the market, but also for our organizations, and taking deeper into that, and also, you know, overcoming the tendency that we are too much, you know, thinking and acting out of the current, out of the present view, versus really having more future back thinking. Because the transformation that we that we see going on, is probably one that you know well, as you said, also something that is ongoing, and it's now already over longer time. So really digging deeper into the paradigm shift, if you look, for example, in the sustainability transformation, really understanding what it means to go from linear to circular, what it means for changes in the business models, what it means for expanding the scope of responsibilities and what it means for collaboration working in ecosystems so many fundamental shifts where we believe also that a more people centered Organization is key, and there we as that's why we also renamed ourselves from HR human resource to really being resourceful people and organization, because we think that reflects much more what we can contribute, also to the success and the competitive advantage of our business. So biggest wins were to certain regard also getting rid of some things that are really increasing bureaucracy in the organization. Now on the other hand side, really building things where people are relieved or empowered to drive the business forward, like building a learning ecosystem, like getting rid of also static performance management or static leadership assessment. Minutes. So we're really trying to find those crystallization points that are blocking the organization from moving forward.

Stephen Fisher-Toivo 10:08

I think these panels are fascinating because we spend a lot of time looking at different perspectives of of HR and how it works in different companies, and change and paradigm shift came up a lot in the discussion now. And one thing which we've identified in our company in JTI is about having something which is constant, and that is a focused and clear culture, which is, you know, we need people who are high performers, people who are empowered and engaged in what they're doing. Having a clear, consistent culture is extremely important for that. So we've seen that that shift in our culture has actually given us stability in helping us to to navigate the change of transformations and changes in our business moving

Chris Rainey 10:47

forward. It's interesting how we're a lot of times we're so focused on, what do we need to start doing, whereas we need to stop and say, what do we need to stop doing? And a lot, a lot of the times, the biggest impact we can have is actually in stopping. So even in a small business like mine, we're like, actually, no, why are we? Why are we doing that? Oh, just because we did that's the way we used to do it doesn't mean it's the right way of doing it. And taking a step back to assess that as well. But super, super interesting. I'd had someone in the question ask sorry in the chat, ask the questions to you, Lena, about you mentioned your business partners focusing part of their time on those other projects. Could you give an example one of those? Just out of curiosity, you mentioned, yeah, yeah,

Line Bødker Høegh 11:32

yeah. I'm the lucky receiver of some of that extra capacity in my business area, because we have, we have a lot of things to deliver on that are very linked to the success of the Legal Group. So I pulled a few times some some very specific resources. So as I mentioned a little bit on mobilizing a new organization with these product teams, we also mobilized a fully new career framework that's naturally a massive work in itself, but that's been up and running for a few years and and then, of course, we have been looking at what are, what are the skills that are linked to that career framework? How do we move from talking about head count to being more skill orientated, and then pulled in both some competences so people who knew how to work with that from the big organization, but also the capacity to do that in a short sprint, versus spending a full year maybe on that work. So we did three, three months intensive work to deliver on mapping out our engineering population, which is 70% of the business that I support. That was, that was a good way. And people then got exposure to a different business area and could take some of the earnings back, right? So there's just really a win, win that we start to see in that experiment. It's a different mindset, but, but we are, we're playing with it. Yeah,

Chris Rainey 12:55

what are so many other functions or leaders that you brought into that conversation?

Line Bødker Høegh 13:00

So, so, so the resources in themselves are within HR. But of course, we always work mirroring our organization and having an end user perspective. So that would definitely be those leaders that represent. We call them champions for those archetypes that we operate with. So they are definitely in and supporting mapping out this work, owning it as well, which I think is even more important, right? I

Chris Rainey 13:27

think that's a really good point, though, right? Because sometimes we map it out as HR, thinking we know we have all the answers, but actually having them come in as champions and mapping out, for you, the ones that are living and breathing the role every day. That's the key to get it right.

Line Bødker Høegh 13:44

There you go. And sometimes it's not us or them that are right, but actually we create and people understand it together, which is even more powerful, right? So

Matthias Reuter 13:55

can very much relate to that. So we convey a similar approach, also with some of the review, you know, entering new territory, so uncharted territory, with a more iterative approach, we really involve the business, sometimes, maybe even customers, partners, much more already in the first steps in the definition, what is really the problem we would like to solve, because I think you mentioned it before and reframing, I think we need to challenge our few in the world. So what are really the problems we would like to solve? And instead of just taking from the past what we've done into the future, I think we need to think the other way around. And therefore it helps to really have the different perspectives in and to go out. Sometimes it's also takes a certain courage. You know that you go out early with the MVP, with a minimum viable product, and test it out already for early feedback, but it's a fundamentally different approach, and we've very good experience with it that

Chris Rainey 14:57

links quite nicely to a question that we got a. In the in the chat as well. Quite a few people ask, you know, you mentioned many times about linking the business strategy back to HR and vice versa. But how do you do that? What is the process? What does that actually look like? How often are you checking in with the leadership team? Could you share some advice to our audience about how you go about doing that.

Paul-Olivier Raynaud-Lacroze 15:20

I mean, for me, you know, at the end of the day, I don't know any business today. I mean, I don't know in 100 years where we don't have people. And I think the beauty of that, I say that because it, for me, it gives a license for us in HR to intervene in almost whatever other function we want. So for me, very practically, Chris, it means that I invite myself, if I'm not invited to all my colleagues management team meetings. I go to the factory, I go to the R and D department, and I talk to people ask to ask them what they are working on, what are their issues, what are their constraints? And I really sit as I said, you know, in the My colleagues management meetings or town hall meetings or whatever meeting they have with a view of, how can I help them succeed? And, you know, sometimes they talk about, you know, highly technical issues or sales difficulties with some customers. But my angle is always okay, what can I do to help these guys, these girls, succeed with the levers I have at my disposal, which could be, you know, I don't know we organize them differently, or perhaps with some courses they need to take, or perhaps I have to accelerate some recruitment, because perhaps we have not been doing a good job for them. So it's really, it's not procrastination. It's really getting out of my chair and feeling, smelling the business and understanding it. I mean, I don't come from a chat background, so that helps me also, sometime, you know, I don't marketing. I've done R and D. So of course, some other areas understand better than perhaps others, but it's really going out there and outside of my my chair basically, and my computer, just to meet the colleagues and discuss with them.

Guillermo Miranda 17:10

Yeah, there is a structural change that I mentioned, and probably the easy way is on the how is to have clarity that we come from a war with HR was in charge of policy and processes, and in my case, I grew up in that, and now we are in charge of experiences and journeys, and that is a very different world, because making the policy and establishing the process And then being the police that is behind is no longer the role of a child, that's an enforcer role that not necessarily adds value, and the way that the business executes and adjust to all the changes and iterations requires a different mindset. So switching to Okay, I have to build journeys, and I have to have the right experiences for the people to bring the skills that they need to make a business different for clients and for communities, is a very different setup and requires a different way to work, to collaborate, and very importantly, On the mindset, how you conceptualize what is your role and how you can help the business to succeed. So no longer process and policies is more about experiences and journeys, how we design that, how we are architecting those journeys and creating those experiences to succeed.

Stephen Fisher-Toivo 18:42

I mean, there's one big bonus of being in HR or people of culture function, right? And that's impartiality. So you get to see everything from from helicopter view, or you can go in deeper and you can investigate exactly what's happening. But you don't have the disadvantage of the perhaps more hands on challenges or frustrations, you can be more, yeah, looking over the bigger picture and helping people to to come through. Of objectivity,

Matthias Reuter 19:08

absolutely. And if you think about, you know, that people centricity, you were talking about experiences, journeys. So this is more and more also, you know, moving to the center of strategy. It's, it's a competitive factor, and talent and capability are major success factors. So this is more and more going to the to the center on, you know, what are really the markets and also the business models that we can really succeed in. So therefore having a helicopter view, but then also the very operational, you know, how does it really land, when the when the rubber hits the road? Bring that perspective into the strategy discussion is, I think, a major topic. I like Apollo, what you're saying, you invite yourself also, if you're not already there, yeah, so that's, that's crucial. And we see that there. Is a fundamental shift also in thinking on the business side, that this is in the focus of our CEOs.

Chris Rainey 20:08

I think one of the points that that people are making is sometimes the senior leaders don't actually understand how HR can help them. So how do you help them to understand how HR can assist them in their own strategy and their own objectives, because if you don't have that alignment of, what does it mean for me, Chris as a leader, and how's that going to impact me and my goals and objectives, they're not going to be engaged. So it's important to understand what are the goals and objectives of each of those leaders, and then help serve them in that, does that make sense? Why try what I try to say,

Line Bødker Høegh 20:44

Yeah, but I think it depends a little bit on the starting point, right? So I'm in a fortunate situation where it's super institutionalized, it's not even being questioned, right? So, but if I go with your your challenge, what I couldn't imagine is a scenario where, you know, are you invited or you're not invited? And do you invite yourself? As mentioned, here's the example, right? But how do we also meet the leader where they're at? You know, you can come in and, you know, be push hard, and then that backfires. But how do you meet people where they are and engage in those conversations? And then it unfolds, suddenly, they see the value of that conversation. So it kind of convinced itself into being a more value adding conversation that you might have thought in the beginning as a leader. So it's also building up that trust. It's building up that advisory conversation where you drive the business agenda together. That doesn't come for free. It's something you earn your right with how you show up, how you engage, how you help, and how you lean in. So it's very much in the behaviors and the approach than a dictator thing I would say, Yeah,

Chris Rainey 21:53

I see that. I see that backfire so many times. Selena, like I've interviewed over 600 HR executives on the podcast. And one of the things they always tell me, when they join a business, they spend a six the first six to 12 months just building relationships and building trust with those leaders before coming in and trying to make some change, because it they're going to get that pushback straight away, right? And Chris, there's no easy way of doing it. I'm literally flying all over the world, meeting these leaders, one to one, sitting down with them, having conversations, asking questions, listening, and then, you know, a whole year almost, to do that. There's no quick way of doing that. There's no cheat code, unless, unless someone listening has an answer, let us know. But I don't think there is any other way. When you're in those conversations, from a practical perspective, what are the types of commerce, what type, what are type of questions that you're asking those leaders when you're sitting down with depending

Line Bødker Høegh 22:48

on what's the intention, but they've been expected. It's about building the trust and getting the relationship going. It's, it's, it's page one on that book, right? And how do you build trust? So it's it for me, and also matching the company I'm in. It's, it's on a very personal level. Actually, you're very vulnerable. You're very, you know, engaging. You're testing the grounds a little fit for what are they occupied with, what's important to them. And then you're trying to lean into that and find your way in, in figuring out where do we see eye to eye, where our value systems aligned are the small things that they sit with that you can go in and support them when and show you can make a difference, because then you have the first stepping stone. So, so for me, it's, yeah, it's, it's building it up through, through that shared understanding, and also figure out where don't we see things eye to eye? Because then I know where, you know, where do we need to engage? Yeah?

Chris Rainey 23:43

Yeah, I love that. Galermo, you're kind of on the other side of this in an interesting way, right? You spent many years as a chief learning officer of some of the world's leading global brands. Now you're working in an advisory role for some amazing organizations. How are you helping coach leaders in those organizations to help you know, ensure that their roles and responsibilities are aligned, back to the business strategy and objectives?

Guillermo Miranda 24:12

Yeah, I think that you start with clarity about what you need to influence and what you need to help is on the mindsets. It's what Lina mentioned, being in those conversations, having the right questions and having this extra support to be able to move your mindset into how we operate differently, how we get accomplished in a world that is changing so rapidly, so you have to behave and create different habits. So one of the tools that I have seen very clearly is coaching, coaching helping to create these habits in a continuous way. Remind because for many years, on the leadership development side on on. A driving organizational change. We tend to believe that if you do a workshop of two days, and you cascade down, everybody will behave differently, and they have the great energy I see all the smiles of the first two days of the workshop, and then they get back to the day to day, and they come back to the force of the business and the routine. But if you have somebody that helps do keeps you, keep you honest, helps you to put in perspective things, helps you to move your the way that you behave, your habits, then you have an advantage. And that's exactly what we have seen in the marketplace, and I have seen in the companies we implemented coaching at IBM in a massive way to be sure that AI beauty is is there. We help to implement coaching as well at Boeing, in order to have a psychological and safety space and drive to reality the sick speak and listen habits that we wanted for leaders and for the whole company. And here with my fellow panelists, I can see that coaching has been part of the strategy at Lego is a great partner. It Siemens, also Siemens healthcare, so it's happening in the marketplace. So I think that this is a tool that you have in your hands that you can help, start with the mindsets, and then things will happen, help to create the muscle of the new habits.

Chris Rainey 26:31

Let's face it as well, a lot of these skills that we're talking about, of what it means to be a leader, didn't even exist when I first became a leader or a manager thinking about, you know, leading with empathy, psychological safety, the conversations around well being. None of those were part of my training when I became a manager or a leader. So I'm constantly having to evolve and adapt along the way. And I always say to Shane, you know, my co founder, one of the best investments we ever made was, was getting a coach and having those weekly conversations, and also just having someone outside of my own business to talk to, just not someone internally. I'm sure everyone listening can relate to that. It's great having conversations with your colleagues and team, but sometimes you need someone separate from that to be able to really, also someone who could be honest with you as well and hold you accountable, which really, really helped. So definitely an interesting experience on that point as HR leaders, it's been amazing. I started doing this 17 years ago, believe it or not, and what it means to be a HR leader is fundamentally shifted. It's almost unrecognizable the skills and capabilities required to be a HR leader now, Paul, Olivia, I'd love to hear from you, what are some of the skills and capabilities that you feel that is needed to be a HR leader in today's day and age?

Paul-Olivier Raynaud-Lacroze 28:01

Yeah, it's, as you say, it's, it has changed a lot. I think it must be one of the function which has changed the most. I agree, Guillermo said that, you know, perhaps 20 years ago, it was very much processes, administrative tasks, and, you know, perhaps managing the unions and leave the business to the business leaders and just deal with this task and don't bother us too much. I think today we are really, as Guillain again, said, you know, at the center. And of course, I don't want to say we are the only one at the center, but of course, we are one of the key positions, also to support the management. And I see myself really as a copilot of the general manager, the leader, whatever title he or she has. So finance used to be the only function. So somehow to play this role, or wanting to play this role, I think we are the other copilot. So for me, truly a triangle, you know, between a leader, the HR and the finance heads, if you want. Because for me, the finance and the HR through different means, we have the complete view of the business. You know, of course, the guys, they will do it through numbers and KPIs and excel sheets, and we'll do it through, as I said, you know, there are people in every department, so we have our antenna, and we know if, you know, this manager feels okay or not, if there is an issue in this team or not. You know, attrition rates start to go high in this plant. You know, some part there is something boiling down there. So I think we, we have also a complete view of the business. And that's why I think this triangle, if it works well, is super, super powerful. So the skills, I think, is curiosity, as I said, you know, we it's really asking question, being interested in the business again, having the courage to step outside the comfort zone for some, which could be, yes, I do a policy, yes, I do some sort of payroll administration stuff. Go there. Talk to the people. Go to, you know, I think I don't as much as, ya know, mentioning also customers, you know, meeting the customers, understanding what they think about the company, how then we can shape the inside of the. Company to meet the customer needs. So and I think it's also reading books outside HR. I mean, we have to understand finance. I mean, finance is still a very important topic. So if AI leader today don't understand what a P and L is, doesn't know how to make a business case, I think you are undecapped or disabled in this sense. So it's really also reading for me, or strategy books, books around marketing, books around finance. And it means to the for me that there is a lot of beauty in working in HR. However, it's a very difficult role, because we are asked to be good in marketing. You know, we are supposed to do a lot of employer branding. We are supposed to be good in finance because we have, of course, to be this case, we are still to be good in our foundation, which still will be the labor law. And you know, the, of course, pure HR tasks. And we are, of course, supposed to be very good leaders, and we are supposed to understand the strategy. So it's very rich, but also very demanding. Because, you know, the marketing guy, perhaps you don't have to be an expert in labor law, or the finance guy. Don't have to be an expert in empathetic coaching, but we are supposed the, you know, man or woman orchestra, playing all instruments together. So it's very rich and very demanding at the same time. So it's not bad for the faint hearted. I think today

Chris Rainey 31:15

you're not selling it well. Paul Olivia, joking, everything, yeah, well, another one of those skills, which has had to be increases around analytics, right? You know, again, this is something I still find it funny. Every year that we launch, we have our global people analytics event, because when I see everyone where we were to where we are, and I'm having conversations around predictive prescription analytics and generative AI, like, it's almost like hard to even think that we've come so far so on that point. Steven Matthias, I noticed something you're very focused on. How are you using analytics to identify those performance gaps and implement those sort of targeted interventions at scale in order to align with the business?

Stephen Fisher-Toivo 32:09

Yeah, maybe I can go first. I think one of the things we do is to make them meaningful. So it's really important that they actually they make sense and they're valuable to the business, because anyone can spin out a dashboard with 15 different pieces of information, but until you link them together, actually they've got very, very small value to you as an individual or a company. So for example, if you get a turnover figure, an employee turnover figure, and it says, wow, we've decreased by 30% this year, everyone claps and pats themselves on the back. But actually, when you connect that to well, when are people leaving the company, or when a when are things changing? When are people starting to lose their interest or lose their motivation? And can we target our activities to try and save some of those people from leaving the company? Try and keep high talents with us. That's where we're really trying to keep the value in the business and to show where combining different statistics to make them metrics is really valuable.

Matthias Reuter 33:07

Yeah, so build building, building on that. I think what we see, you know, having, having the data and the right quality and also the analytics in place, there's also, I think, a fundamental difference that we need to consider between HR controlling, which is more, let me say backward oriented to check, okay, where are we? And the other thing is the people analytics really shaping the strategy and giving insights, or meaningful insights to the business that we can build on and where we actually see also the biggest challenge is really also turning that into, you know, a convincing story. So what's what's really the story you want to bring across? And how can, you know, do that based on data? How will the data help to make sense out of it, and then communicating in a way that it really lands with the business line, also to what you're saying, building the trust and the connection with the business in that regard, I think, is key. And we have so much to give you know, but with the people insights, really having the people focus here and looking at the real problems. Sometimes you don't even need the data. We know the problems already. And of course, you also need to act on it then, yeah. So those are some of the points, if I may, Chris, because it triggered me a bit with the coaching and mindset topic, if I, if I may, come back to that, because I see really also certain, a certain Miss there, or the conception, we hear that very often, that when it comes, you know, to to the topic of change and transformation, that it's about, yeah, we need to change the mindset. And we need different mindset, I think, for our leaders, also having coaching, having. Let me say, all the measures that support them in really making sense and developing, continuously developing, should be offered. And it's, I think, a no regret move. But what we see is, if you're not changing your organization accordingly, is if the supporting system still remains the same, you can, you know, train and change mindsets like intensively as ever you want. It's then not landing really. So there's also, let me say, a certain strategic clarity, and also the confidence that we are really then also changing certain structures, processes, also success measures. If that's not in line, then you also need to really take care that it's not flipping over into cynicism, because people are getting even more coaching, even more mindset building and so on, but the organization is not really adapting, and I think this needs to be, needs to be in balance, and also discussion needs to be in balance. Not sure what do you think about it? That that triggered me a bit when you Guillermo, when you were, when you were, you know, sharing your experience there?

Guillermo Miranda 36:10

Oh, yes, absolutely. And I think that what we have seen is how the business model evolves, how the industries change, and if you are not moving forward with the market in terms of how the organization is set up for success, all the investment that you can in the people, in the people will not necessarily pay because the basis of your architectural design, as our organization, are wrong. So definitely is, is a is a must, that based on your business model and your model of modernization, the organization needs to evolve, and that evolution is where you need the mindsets in order to embrace the new reality, in order to behave differently, in order to understand that we are no longer a financial company. We're a technology company that happens to do financial services. We are no longer an hospitality company. We are an experienced company that creates the amazing adventures for for our guests, and I think that's core to the transformation for fully in agreement. But yes, yeah,

Chris Rainey 37:23

I see that so often. By the way, Matthias, in my conversations that I have day to day, you're completely right. And sometimes it can be very damaging, because you can portray I see it. I tell you where I see it, a lot, where companies, they'll say they'll do a big activity around, you know, reinventing their values, right, and then their mission and their purpose statement, and they project that out on LinkedIn and to the world, and then all of the employees see that who work there and say, That's not who we are. That's not how we operate. And if there's a sort of disconnect between we're sending one message out to the world, but we're not living it internally, in the systems, the processes, the compensation structure, isn't set up and it's misaligned. So to your point, you can do all of the training in the world and all of the coaching in the world, but if the way people are rewarded and the way that the company's structured isn't aligned with that, then it's a recipe for disaster. And probably

Matthias Reuter 38:20

there is no perfect solution, but we need to be honest in that regard, and also encounter it in a more holistic way that it really lands with our people. Because the proposition to the business yet do more coaching, and the mindset will shift, and the transformation will happen. It's part of it, yeah. And so I appreciate Guillermo, how you put it, you know, in the product in this broader context, absolutely,

Chris Rainey 38:44

I would say Lena Lego is one of the companies that I think do a great job. From speaking to your team at this What would you say are some of the successes and the reason and that's really resonating, both internally but also externally, with your customers

Line Bødker Høegh 39:01

on making sure that the experience is the same if you come from the outside and what we do inside, yeah,

Chris Rainey 39:08

but also that, but also, you know, the disconnect between the organizational structure versus what we're trying to say we're requiring from our leaders and our people, I feel like has done a really Good job of both supporting those leaders, but also creating an environment that fosters that and that they can thrive. I feel like you've done a very good job of doing that.

Line Bødker Høegh 39:30

Yeah. And I think, I mean, this is again, we are some of the things that comes from a very long history of being family owned. We were born back in 1932 right? So there's, there's a lot of years behind where we are today. And you can say when, when that company was established back then, the family, of course, played a lot of role in how we shape that organization, and the ambition is to become that, uh. To become, become a personalization of that brand framework that we have set out the family have very high ambitions on how we can keep creating value for the many kids in this world, right? So that's like embedded in everything we do. And a way you see that is that we have all very clear promises. I won't go into unpacking each of them, but the headlines are a promise to people, so us as employees to play to the planet and to the partner. So for peace, if you will, and if you unpack our people promise a little bit. It is a critical component for our employee value proposition and how we attract and retain people, of course, and it's our commitment to create a safe, healthy, respectful, diverse, edible work place for all employees. And we believe that, of course, to treat people equally. We have to treat them differently. But there's also some elements where you would exactly see that Chris, where we do treat people equally. So two examples, we, few years back, introduced a minimum of 26 weeks of parental leave for the birthing parent, and that's for all legal employees. It's the factory worker, the hourly factor, it's the salaried executive. So that comes across. If you've been here one day of you've been here 10 years, it doesn't matter. Everybody gets it through pandemic. We also had some examples of where we could have chosen. We had stores closed down. We had factories for period of time that was closed down for various reasons, right? But we didn't lay off anybody. We kept the workforce in place. We kept that intact. We believed we would get that through that in a different way, and we and we stay committed to the people part of those four promises. So I think that's where we mirror walk the talk, and and we can invest for the long term. And I think we are lucky there with the setup we have from the owner family. And

Chris Rainey 42:15

I think that comes across when you look at your different processes. And you and I speak to to Lauren your seat, you know, Chief People Officer and other members of the team, that's all you're always looking at when you're making a decision. You're looking at through that lens. Yeah, now is this new system, process, technology, aligned with those values? So you're always looking at through that lens. And I think that's why you've got the good connection there, that we're that we're describing that Matthias was describing, that sometimes there's a disconnect. Because maybe, you know, organizations are looking it through that lens and making decisions from that basis point. And I know it's hard, yeah,

Line Bødker Høegh 42:56

sorry, because might not always be the popular decision. So post pandemic, right? You bring people back to the office. Do you do the hybrid? What? What do you offer people, right? And we were very clear from the get go that we would do the hybrid so you can work from from at home, two days a week, but three days in office. And been true to that. That has not always been an easy decision, right? Because you had, especially in the beginning, you had a lot of companies being super flexible. So So I think back to the question on the partnership with the, with the with the leaders, because they're being pushed super hard. That means, if we want to make their job a bit easier, we also let go, right? But how do we also know when to stand firm and say, You know what it might be the easier decision to loosen up, but we believe in this. We believe that's true to where we want to be as a company. We believe that people coming together is where the magic happens. So, yeah, so it's not always easy, Chris, but we're doing habits. Yeah,

Chris Rainey 44:03

love it. Um, before we wrap up, I just want to kind of we covered a lot of stuff. Is there anything that we've missed? Stuff like we've covered quite a lot of different things. Anything anyone wants to add before we wrap up? Lemma, have we missed anything?

Guillermo Miranda 44:18

I think that the emphasis on the business acumen and the new skills for the HR teams is an important one, because it is not that, oh, there is a new scenario. Let's go and try to fix it. I think that we need to equip our teams. We need to clear and intentional on how we create that business acumen, those new abilities, like Paul Olivia mentioned, like Curiosity, the different things that are not necessarily the technical skills that are the skills that are more what used to call soft skills, though interpersonal skills. And that is very important. And of course, back it up by I understand. The business, and I am not shy to read more, to get more informed, and to test new technology, test new business of modernization. I think that that's an important chapter with with our own teams, is how we help them also to revamp and be ready for the new reality that is in front of us.

Chris Rainey 45:26

Yeah, I feel like soft skills are the new hard skills. And I think what power skills, right is there? I've got a term, yes, is the name I felt like. I like that. I needed a rebrand. Off on soft skills, power skills, and I think those are the skills as well that are really going to make the difference. You know, technology, in many ways, has helped us take care of some of those more technical elements and hard skills, as it were, and now really where we're having the most value. And for me, personally, I'm realizing for me to be the most effective version of Chris, for my team, for my family, it's actually mainly those power skills that I need to further develop and focus my attention on and then. And it's not necessarily been the focus has it really, for the last couple of years, only recently, now we're having these conversations around power skills as well. So I love that you added that. Galermo, it's just a super important part before I let everyone go, parting piece of advice, and then we'll say goodbye. Leno, do you want to kick us off? What would be your sort of parting takeaway for the audience?

Line Bødker Høegh 46:30

Be brave there. Jump in, even though it's deep water. I think the future is so unknown, and we can't sit behind the desk and plan for it. So go out there, explore the world and crag on.

Chris Rainey 46:45

Love it. Love it. Paul Olivia,

Paul-Olivier Raynaud-Lacroze 46:48

yeah, no, I think it's really Yes. Don't hesitate to take a slightly different angle. You know, to think, you know, we have to take the people view. You know, people are not machines, you know, they are not purely rational. So I think we have to add this extra spice in the discussion with our colleagues. Yes, be curious. And I think, as we were talking before, there will also this counter intuitive thing, that with our own teams, we have to be more, you know, the service leader. You know, we have to accept our vulnerability. We have to accept that we don't know it all so. And as you said, Chris Mapp, is something which is very counter to what we are taught when we were, I mean, at least I'm much older than you, you know, 30 years ago, where the leader had to be the one knowing him. Yeah, very strong. And I think we have to lose a lot of his matitude, especially when you're a man. And I think that's what you know we we bring us forward. And I think by this example, we can show also to the other leaders how they should evolve, you know, in this direction.

Chris Rainey 47:49

Love it. Stephen,

Stephen Fisher-Toivo 47:51

yeah, be authentic. Be genuine. Be very inquisitive. Be prepared to be to be right. Be prepared to be wrong. And take that flexibility with you through through all the different steps you take.

Chris Rainey 48:03

I love that prepared to be wrong. I wish I got that advice earlier in my career.

Matthias Reuter 48:12

Yes, as I said before, I think really understanding the paradigm shift that have massive impact on the way how we are, you know, shaping our business now, organizations, and then, especially also what we had before. You know, leveraging data to create value for business and the leaders we have so much to give. And I think then we don't have to ask for a seat at the table. You can just clarity and also confidence, be there and provide additional values by leveraging the data that's important,

Chris Rainey 48:48

amazing, and last but not least, Palermo, did I leave you much?

Guillermo Miranda 48:53

Yeah, well, I think that the Be brave, be prepared to be wrong. I think that that starts with intentionality and the ability to self reflect and understand who are yourself. And I think that that intentionality and that self reflection is an important beginning in order to drive forward. And sometimes we don't take those five minutes to say, Okay, what am I doing here? However, a better version of myself today. Have that space. I think the intentionality to self reflect is very important. So you can be brave. You can be ready to be raw. You can be ready to use the analytics and the data. The intentionality is important. So.

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