How to Balance Employee Well-Being and Performance
In today’s episode of the HR Leaders Podcast, we sit down with Laila Gillies, Head of HR at Hiscox USA, to explore her incredible journey in HR leadership and the evolving role of HR in shaping modern organizations.
Laila shares insights on upskilling employees for the future, fostering a values-driven leadership culture, and the art of balancing accountability with empathy. She also discusses the importance of embracing innovation, empowering employees, and the role of HR in influencing lives at work.
🎓 In this episode, Laila discusses:
The shift from transactional HR to strategic leadership.
The art of learning through action and embracing change.
Building holistic wellness programs that engage and retain talent.
Why upskilling employees is key to thriving in a fast-changing world.
How leaders can balance empathy with accountability for better results.
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Chris Rainey 0:00
Hey, le, welcome to the show. How are you? I'm doing well. Thanks for having me. Nice to see you. How are things?
Laila Gillies 0:09
Things are good? Yeah, it's been a busy year, looking forward to the holidays, recharging, kind of you know, spending time with family, but doing well. Thank you.
Chris Rainey 0:19
Amazing. What's on your Christmas list? I've never asked that in 1200 episodes. It just popped into my head, what's your Christmas list?
Laila Gillies 0:30
It's funny, and I never write a list for myself. I was focused on like the kids and everyone else. I didn't even think about like my stockings, always the empty one, right? That's a good
Chris Rainey 0:41
quote, by the way, hate Charlie, throw their own stock in. That's actually coined it right there you got that. That's a that's actually not bad. We could keep that one in not
Laila Gillies 0:54
even 60 seconds in. You know, I'm more I gravitate more to experiences. I think, these days, than things. I think as I get older. Yeah, so if I were going to put something in it, probably more of like a travel, a trip, nice, something that I could look forward to, somewhere, nice,
Chris Rainey 1:12
bucket list. So you'd never put on the bucket list that you haven't
Laila Gillies 1:16
see. I love, I love to travel. I've traveled quite a bit.
Chris Rainey 1:21
So you've already, you've done a lot already.
Laila Gillies 1:23
I've done some, but not not. There's still so many more had me haven't made my way to Greece yet. That's kind of like way up there, yeah, yeah. Australia, New Zealand. I mean, there's, there's, yeah, there's quite a few. And Japan, oh,
Chris Rainey 1:41
that cool, right? There's a lot. It's a lot. It's interesting. As you get older in your and in your career, and especially when you have family, you are right, it becomes more about experiences and memories, right, earlier in your career, about some of the material things, perhaps. And then you kind of get used to that, and you're like, Okay, this doesn't really fulfill me, or have I really last thing? It's whenever I think about that, it's always the trips I've taken with my wife and Robin, and the places and the memories that we've created together. And that's gives me the energy to continue doing what I do. Okay, right? It's the why. That's the real why. It's not the material things. It's time. Time actually is what I want in my stock, in more of that. Yeah, that's one thing I don't have a lot of.
Laila Gillies 2:26
Yeah, yeah. I don't think HR leaders in general. I feel would agree with you on that point. Yeah, tell everyone
Chris Rainey 2:33
a little bit more about your background and your journey to the role that you're in now.
Laila Gillies 2:39
Yeah. So I've been with his Cox for almost 16 years in HR and financial services for around 20. I am, you know, coming in. I'll start with the this role, very much a generalist, starting out and it was a growing company, which was kind of fantastic for an HR professional, because got exposure to so many different facets. I mean, I was recruiting, and I was working on employee relations issues and leadership development and all that, rather than being pigeon holed, and progressed mainly through the kind of HR vertical, but became increasingly interested in employee engagement. So I led employee engagement globally for seven years alongside my role. And then for about three years, I led the transformation of our global HR operating model. This is when we were, yeah, yeah. We were implementing a new HRIS, the one we have now, which acted as more of a catalyst, a catalyst for the transformation. And an opportunity for us to rethink the way we operated. Did you look back
Chris Rainey 3:47
now and we're like, Why did I agree to do a HCM? Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. I do that experience.
Laila Gillies 3:54
I learned so much. I grew so much through that experience. It was totally out of my comfort zone, completely. Um, but yeah, a lot of lessons that I took back with me. And then, you know, now as the as the head of HR really focused on mainly delivering business performance through talent, amazing. That's what I love. Yeah, it's
Chris Rainey 4:15
so rare in this day and age that somewhat you said, Did you how long just have you been there
Laila Gillies 4:19
again, almost 16 years. Yeah, what would
Chris Rainey 4:24
you say is the number one reason that you stayed in the company for that long,
Laila Gillies 4:30
the it's it's always had an opportunity to do something new and different and learn and grow. So just in that time, it was like, you know, kind of I started out, I got exposure so many different things that I haven't had, I didn't have exposure to before. And then became interested in something, raised my hand, began leading it, you know, HR, transformation. And until this day, if this is, you know, if I see something, if there's an opportunity to get involved, I can, I can do that. And so, um. I never felt the need to leave to grow professionally or personally.
Chris Rainey 5:05
Did I want to delve into that? I mean, just you mentioned the word raise your hand, right? Many people don't do that in their careers. Was there a certain point in your career that a moment that gave you that confidence, that you're like, Hey, I'm not going to wait for someone to tap me on the shoulder, and I'm going to take charge of my career, put myself forward. Because there's actually been a lot of research even around that, that men do that more than females in terms of putting themselves forward for roles. A lot of research around that. So I'm just wondering if there, if that's something you've always done, it's been part of like, part of, like, your personality and how you are very odd. And one way you said, Hey, actually, no, I'm gonna put myself in these uncomfortable positions, and I'm gonna be intentional about that.
Laila Gillies 5:53
Yeah, to an extent, it's my personality, because I like to learn. And sometimes it wasn't for roles. So it wasn't just, you know, kind of, I saw a position that was a step up, and so I was going to go for it. No no matter what, it was just an opportunity to learn. So someone else was leading it, but I asked to be involved so that I could learn more about it, and then in partnering with them. And then I kind of, I naturally, kind of learned and moved into that position as a result. And that's what I would encourage more of, is just kind of like raising your hand to learn and grow for yourself, and then seeing where that takes you.
Chris Rainey 6:27
Yeah, now I was when you said that, because it just triggers something in my mind, and that in my last company, I mentioned to you beforehand, I was there for 10 years, and I would early on in my career, I was just had that eagerness to learn and grow and develop. And I would ask, like, the marketing director, Hey, can I come to your marketing meeting to like, you're a sales executive on the sales floor. And I was like, Yeah, but I just want to, I just want to understand what you what you do, and how we can work better together, right? And they're like, looking at me like I was crazy when I asked that question. And I did the same thing for all of the different functions and and I remember at the time I got in trouble for actually by my manager, like, how dare you go and do that about asking me? I was like, Wait a minute. I was just wanted to curiosity. I had a curiosity mindset. And I was like, why wouldn't you ask that question?
Laila Gillies 7:16
Exactly, yeah, you know, it's one thing. If it's like, at the expense of your role. Instead of doing the job you're there to do, you're like, involved in other things, but if it's on top of then, you know, it's certainly encourage it, because that is, you know, that's how I feel. I've learned and grown the most, and I like to see people doing more of it, because it impacts you at the end of the day, like you're the one that's going to benefit most. And take that with you. The company, of course, is going to benefit, but if you take that with you, you're still going to have it. So just, just do it. Yeah,
Chris Rainey 7:47
it feels like fate. Then you landed in this job, considering one of your focuses and areas is to help upskill employees, given that you enjoy doing that so much yourself. With what you do? Could you talk about some of the programs and work that you're doing at his Cox to help upskill, reskill, and prepare your employees for this sort of VUCA world that we find ourselves in that's constantly changing and evolving?
Laila Gillies 8:14
Yeah. So you know, firstly, there's the clarity of skills and looking at skills versus roles. So what are the skills and how, what is transferable and taking more of kind of a skill based approach to learning is, is one thing. Because, again, there was a time when it was like, you are in this role, and so there was a development program specific to the role itself. And, you know, and that's just not the case anymore. It really opens up the pool of talent. Makes things easier. That's one the other thing is, how people learn. So digital learning platforms like LinkedIn learning, we love bite sized learning chunks, broad range of topics and easily accessible. So, you know, employees really kind of listen to it on the on the way to the office, or in between a meeting, just making it really easy and relevant, and then thinking about just the role of our leaders and managers and the role that they play in in role modeling some of what we Want to see and kind of encouraging that growth mindset across their teams. So we've relaunched a leadership development framework and kind of redefined what it means to be a leader at at our company, because it does, you know, it does vary. You have those kind of, like basics of what it means to be a leader, and, you know, empowering others and articulating vision, all of that. But every, every company stands for something different, so it's also a personal kind of like aspect, what do you want? What's your brand? And how are you going to, you know, convey that and represent that through the leaders. Um. And, you know, so probably bucket it into those three, the clarity, the access, and then the role of a leader and manager. Yeah,
Chris Rainey 10:07
the role of leader and manager has changed so much, right? I would love to understand what you and the team have identified as some of the core competencies now that you identify as being key as a leader as a manager, because, you know, when I was a manager, you wasn't talking about leading with empathy, right? That wasn't a skill or the resilience piece we spoke about before. That's now, you know. So I love to understand some of the more of the of what you and the team are focusing on,
Laila Gillies 10:35
yeah. So some of it is, you know, it'll be things that you would have heard before in terms of being able to not just develop a clear strategy, but articulate a clear vision and a compelling one that brings others onboard. You know, those are things that, or it's like you know, and how you manage performance and so on, but really taking more of an outside in view, so a customer focus, being focused on the customer and how you bring that into to the org. Other things in terms of, like, how it's transformed is around the resilience and the change, yeah. So I think there was a point where, you know, change was a scary thing. People think of it as a scary thing. You saw the change curve where, you know, there was a grieving period, and then how? And it was
Chris Rainey 11:24
the beginning, middle and end. Now, exactly,
Laila Gillies 11:27
change is a constant, yeah. So how do you lead people through change and help them, you know, understand that it is a constant, and build that level of resilience so that, you know, because you are just adaptable as an org and the really focus on investing in digital and the technologies and things like aI that's going to accelerate that even further. So, you know, the adaptability becomes even more important, and so does that growth mindset. So you know things we were talking about before, it's that you know how you how you really embed it more broadly and and then how you represent it yourself. And you know, it's kind of like we are values driven culture. So there is a way in which we want people to kind of like role model our values and represent them as leaders. And it doesn't mean being complacent or accepting mediocre performance or anything like that, just because you're human centric or you're people focused, but it's more of the approach of the approach of how you do that, and providing the clarity up front, holding people accountable, accountable and doing get the level of respect and humanity that we that we want to see.
Chris Rainey 12:51
It's hard to find that balance. It is right. It is if you go too far in one direction, there's an impact on performance and vice versa. Right? To do that, and this is leaders. Many leaders, including myself, are struggling to navigate that on both sides. Yeah,
Laila Gillies 13:10
many leaders find it extremely challenging, like they could do the one end and they could do the other end, but the managing the performance and holding people accountable most feeling like your behavior has to change. Where now you are, you know, clear that you will not tolerate the performance and that that comes across in a way that is unnatural and it doesn't, you know necessarily have to, have to come across. You know, as aggressively it is. It is reframing it. I think you know you care about people, you build a relationship, you develop that trust. You want what's best for them, and being clear about what the expectations are, providing the support and giving the feedback, being transparent and giving the feedback so they're not blindsided, is, is the right thing to do. It is the human thing to do, and it it is certainly best on both ends for people to know where they stand and to feel like they were treated with a level of respect and integrity from the moment they step into the moment they step out, regardless of what the outcome is. So it's that, it's that bit of reframing, and then how you do it in an authentic way that we're trying to get across. Yeah,
Chris Rainey 14:25
because in the past, I've seen many leaders, even leaders I've been managed by, or even these in our own company, make the same mistake, where they only they address the performance, and it's kind of like an out of the blue conversation, exactly, and the fact the employee is like, wow, we've been speaking every Monday for the last this, and now you're just throwing me into a performance review like out of nowhere, because they were avoiding having the uncomfortable conversation, right? And it may, and you just immediately have just broken that trust, right as well, so you not giving that feedback. Like, you know you're you're you're taking away a gift from that employee by not giving that feedback. And also you're making your job harder because you're just building up this awkward moment that you know is impending and it is coming, and you're going to have to have that conversation, whereas if you have that trust up front and you set very clear expectations on both sides, and you can have that conversation. And it's not, I'm not attacking you, it's not personal. It's you know, and you can, you can still do that in a very empathetic way, but still we focus on the outcomes as well. But again, that is a skill that many when I became a manager wasn't something you were taught you like you were Chris, you were a very high performing sales executive. Now you're a manager. Those are two completely different things, and I found out the hard way. I was like, wait a minute, I'm no longer just responsible for me. I've got to deal with everyone else, right? So we have to, how are you doing that? You know? What are some of the ways? Is it internal coaching? Is it, you know, like, what's what have you found, what's worked best for you? It
Laila Gillies 15:59
is, and it's, it is coaching, and it's getting to down to the basics, like how you set the clear expectations, how you have the regular discussions, how you open it up and provide the support. It's the how you develop the relationship, kind of, like from the start, it's the so it is. It's more coaching, it's more framework, and it's practice. After that it's, you know, it is, and then it's practice, because, you know, you can explain it away, and people will understand it in theory. But it's not until they're in those situations that it truly comes to life. And then sometimes, you know, it's kind of, we're dealing with people. So it doesn't always go by the book. You learn from it, and things go right and things go wrong, and you kind of adapt and flex your style, and you apply it, you know, the next time around. But it's, it's only through that, you know, kind of experimental learning, that you'll truly kind of build those skills. Yeah, reps,
Chris Rainey 16:54
yeah, we go better reps in. You can watch, you can watch as many videos as you want, or read it until you got to do it. It's a very different experience to be able to do that. Talking of the challenges of our leaders and employees well being, you know, is a big challenge, right? Again, one of the conversations, you know, again, we encourage our leaders to have conversations like, oh, Chris, I don't know what to say. I don't know what to do. I don't want to say the wrong thing. And again, they end up kind of avoiding the conversation because they won't do that. I'd love to understand how you and the team are providing support and customized well being programs to your employees that really have an impact. Yeah, so
Laila Gillies 17:37
this is something that we put a lot of time and focus on and that's number one, is giving it the level of focus that it needs. So if it's kind of an ancillary thing, oh, you know, it's kind of the week you care about your well being, but there's nothing there to prove it, then you know it's going to fall flat. The next thing is, you know, realizing that everyone is different. You are dealing with human beings, and wellness is broad. So mental, well being, financial, well being, emotional, social, physical, all of that and that there are going to be some things that are more important to others depending on their life circumstances. So we look at it holistically and provide tools and resources around all of it and make it accessible. The thing that, you know, I'd probably boil it down to three things that we do. One is that we provide more education and kind of accessible tools to help people build the kind of like awareness and techniques around it. So whether it's, you know, the kind of like training resources, etc, that they can kind of, you know, more understand how to live a healthy lifestyle or support their financial well being. It's not just the resources, but it's more of the education which is important. The second is that we do try to make it, you know, kind of like fun and engaging. We do make a pointed effort also to make any learnings or or, you know, the education or the fun competitions and so on happen inside of the work day. So if we have a seminar or something like that, we encourage employees to do it. It just, it's more signals that it is important to us, yeah, and that it's something that we want them to take advantage of. Take time out what it's not exactly, exactly, and doing that inside of the work day is different than just saying here it's on the side, kind of like grab it when you can. And then the third thing is just really being conscious of what our people want and what they may need. So there's. Kind of that external factor we're looking at, okay, what's changing, what's around the corner, and, you know, kind of like, what are the newest things that we should be considering in our overall offering, but also what's important to our people? What are they saying? What does our demographic look like, and what do they care about? And asking them, and then adapting, constantly evolving our offering based on that. So, you know, as an example, we we had sabbaticals for employees after 10 years of service. Right now we know that average 10 year is less than that, and, you know, just kind of like, that's the way of the world now, especially post pandemic. And so we offer a paid sabbatical after five years of service. And that is, you know, it's a great value added, differentiated benefit. And it also is a wonderful retention tool, yeah, and that is
Chris Rainey 20:49
some time to reset, recharge, go and have that, that holiday or time out with a family they really needed to or explore something, you know, and, and, yeah, then they'll and they'll boomerang right back
Laila Gillies 21:01
exactly, exactly because, I mean, and it signals that we care about that, because we do care about that. And so like, you know, and that's where it goes back to, you know, if, as a culture, you're saying you are people centric, you care about other people's well being, you kind of have to prove it. These are, these are ways of evidencing that and showcasing your your commitment to their well being, and and then, you know, just kind of like almost reinventing some of the traditional benefits, like stock. We want people to feel a sense of ownership, all right? So, like, what are some tools we could do that? That's something that is traditionally offered to senior level employees, right? So we gave each employee stock of the company at all levels to ensure that they've had a true kind of ownership in the success of the org, that there's, you know, even more of a vested interest and even more of that feeling and and that is, you know, that was kind of a bit different. So it is something that's kind of been there traditionally forever, but kind of taking a different spin on it, if you will, yeah, and considering like, go
Chris Rainey 22:07
like, you gotta move beyond perks to actual to yeah to actions, right? Just actions, yeah, like they said, making time in the day, like during the work days, sends a very clear signal that we want you to prioritize this changing sabbatical time to be more realistic and up to date with the average, right? All of those things to start like, those are very clear signals that we're not just saying it, we're living it. Yeah, yeah. What do you use as a one of the big literally, after this podcast, I have 1000 global heads of well being on a live a live event that we're doing with six global heads of well being speaking and sharing some of the insights. And one of the questions we're going to talk about on that panel after this, after we do this podcast, is, what are some of the specific products and solutions that they're working with? So I love to understand, like, is this a program you've built internally you're working with, like, an external partner? Because it's a bit of a minefield for our audience. Of there's so many different providers. There's that are out there as well. So what is the main focus of like? Is there a particular one partner, or is it a combination of many that using in terms of your well being programs?
Laila Gillies 23:16
It's a combination. It's a combination, and we do kind of pull it together, so we gain some external insights, and, you know, kind of do the studies, and it really leverage that more for the insights than for, you know, to understand what is happening in the broader landscape. But, and then the providers were using there, it's kind of, it's multi faceted, because we've found that different providers have different specialisms, and they're just great at different things, and we want to offer the best, so it's kind of like the best of the different segments. So if you're taking a holistic approach, it's hard to find one is that it's just great at everything. And maybe there will be over time, but so, but it's, it's, it's not how we've structured it today. Yeah, and yeah, pretty good about kind of just benchmarking and ensuring that we have the insights that we need to, kind of, like, know what other companies are doing and what we might be thinking about, and looking at our own demographic and giving us ideas that maybe we haven't thought of.
Chris Rainey 24:17
Yeah, how have you made it accessible? Because one of the challenges a lot, like many, you know, I even had friends that I've spoken to didn't even know their companies offered certain things, right? What have you done in terms of communication, or, like, making it easy for employees to access all of these resources and talk?
Laila Gillies 24:33
Yeah, but communication is, is such a big thing, and in HR, in general, I don't know that we do a good job at promoting, like, really marketing and promoting what we do. There's so much that's done that, really, if you could package it up and market it better, I think a lot of people would be just really floored by how much is already there. So that is, you know, we do push out communications around that on a regular. Their basis, and again, package it up nicely. And that's made a really big difference. We also there's engagement and involvement. So when we have kind of like a wellness competitions, things that employees can get involved in, and then we can, and I used to look at these things to be perfectly honest, like, Okay, this is a challenge, a sleep challenge, a hydration challenge is, like, who's going to sign up for that? Is that a bit corny? No, it turns out
Chris Rainey 25:25
people love that. Shane, my co founder, he's all over it. He's part of, like, Strava, like, in the running app. And he's like, I ran for I was like, the winner on this. And like, he I called him last night, and I was like, he was like, what's that? What's that noise? He's like, I'm out for he's like, I'm out for a run. It's raining outside, and he was running because he wanted to be top of the leaderboard on there. So some people it really does work, yeah,
Laila Gillies 25:50
and it creates such a buzz. And actually, now, you know, kind of like, post your app. Most companies are operating in a hybrid environment, so having these initiatives that bring people together. And you know, kind of everyone together is it's nice. It also helps from a social and engagement sense. It creates
Chris Rainey 26:10
the glue and stickiness that you lose from being in person, a sense of community, a sense of belonging. You kind of you interact with people that you wouldn't normally do so because they're not in your department or in your country, even, so it creates something exciting for people to be part of. That's right, yeah, as well. I've got an interesting question for you that you're not going to expect if we if we met again a year from now, what would we be celebrating?
Laila Gillies 26:40
Would we be celebrating in general? I would say, I would love to say the embracing a lot of the AI, having the time, the time that we value so much, being able to, kind of like, leverage some of these tools and technologies to make our lives easier. Look back and say, I remember when I used to spend so much time drafting these communications, or, like, pulling this like, I don't do that anymore. Now I get to do, you know, now I get to spend it where I want just that transformation of the role, and we're seeing it come to life now think we're going to be I love to look back and say, Yeah, never again. Or, you know, completely different.
Chris Rainey 27:24
Yeah, I love that answer. That's such a really good answer. You're right, because AI has the ability to free up so much time, right? So we can focus on on strategic work time with our people in the organization and and just remove that. One of the simple ways that I've seen that happen recently is that typically, when you have a one to one or a meeting, people are sitting there writing notes, and by simply removing that out of the room and having a note taker, and now you're present with that individual, that's right, I'm not looking down. I'm fully engaged in the conversation, and it's just been that that's been a very different experience. So anyone listening like, if you're already doing that, you need to do that. Even I went to the doctor recently, and he did, he did it. And because normally when you go to a doctors, like, they're like, sitting down writing the notes. They're not really like, I look like they're present with you. And he had a note taker on the desk, and I could see his phone taking all the notes. And I was like, Oh, wow. I feel like actually valued and present in the room as a patient as well. So like, you're right, like, AI is going to give us, it's again, it's not going to replace it's going to basically enable and empower us to be more present, more and spend time on what really matters as well. So I hope we are in that position a year for now. I think we already are moving towards it. It's just, you know, yes, it's that entire reason why we built Atlas co pilot, our co pilot for HR leaders, exactly because we were hearing that challenge that you built as well.
What with your network and your community? What are some of the stories that you keep hearing about the HR community that no one's really talking about publicly?
Laila Gillies 29:19
You know it is. It's almost like that's it's known, but it's not known that there is not a right answer to almost anything that we do. And it's a lot of kind of like, it's a lot of best practices, and this is how you do it. And no one really talks about the fact that it varies completely. If there's such an art behind what it's good to know these things, and then really think about what is right for the organization that you're in, or the time that you are in and so, but it's just this, think that there's a lot of you know, it's kind of it's. Sounds like we should do this, everyone should do this, when, actually, I think we all know that that is just, that's never, that's never been true in our world, and I don't think it certainly isn't true today. Yeah, so it's a, you know, say it's a challenge. It's almost just a unspoken, you know. Look, rule, or something that we just all know, but for some reason, don't share as much. No,
Chris Rainey 30:28
I love that. Like this is sort of this, this expectation that we have this best practice over here that works really well for this company, that's just gonna you're gonna just apply to your culture with your cultural nuances, yeah, with your style of leadership, and all of a sudden, it should just fit like a glove. It doesn't. Doesn't work that way. You're right. You're right 100%
Laila Gillies 30:52
and it's yeah. I wish we'd be more open about that as a community, to say this is what we've done. Works for this may not work for this kind of think about it. This is, you know, kind of just the downside of these things, yeah, rather than present them as one
Chris Rainey 31:05
of the trainings I see from top HR leaders that have world cost functions, is that, in the sense, in a way, that they will communicate to our employees to say, hey, we hear you. We're going to try this out and see how it goes, instead of, this is what we're doing, and it's 100 isn't going to work, because that's just not the truth. Just not the truth. And people just really appreciate you speaking into that way, being like, okay, and, oh, by the way, we tried it didn't work, yeah, and here's why, and we're now we're going to try that. Like, why not just do that? Like, we've had this sort of like, people were very smart, and if you communicate them like their children, they're not going to get the engagement, whereas, if you like, hey, we hear the feedback you gave us. This is what we cannot do. I know you all want this. We can't do that, but we're going to try. We're going to do this. The response is amazing, because they're like, oh, wow, okay, this is genuine. It's honest, it's honest trust, right? Exactly. So I love that some companies, it's scary for companies to do that, though, because they because they have to admit that everything's not, not all roses, and everything's perfect. And that's the bit that scares that the comms team and the PR and legal team, they're terrified of. But guess what? People are going to find out anyway,
Laila Gillies 32:15
exactly, and then, and then you're going to have broken that trust. So why not be transparent? And that's, you know, it's kind of like, I think you have to frame things in those in that way. And that is, you know, it's something that I would, I would always stand behind. As challenging as it is, something that was hard, I think, in the beginning is you want to please everyone at certain points in your career, you just, you really want to make people happy. And this is not a role where you're going to make everyone happy, because people care about different things. They have opinions about different things. And again, you're going to try to do the right thing and the best thing. And you know, it's, you know, cater to the needs of the workforce, cater to the needs of the business, but making every single person 100% happy is is not it's not going to happen. And embracing that and embracing that, you don't know how things are going to play out, but you're going to try it, and you're going to learn and adapt. I think you have to. I've never heard anything
Chris Rainey 33:17
true that statement. I think when I think when I post that this on LinkedIn, people can be like, we get it. We agree all of the HR leaders are gonna high five you on LinkedIn for that one as well. And that is just the truth as well, and that's and that's okay, and that's okay, and that's in every single it is just a HR issue, by the way, for everyone listening. You know, before people say, my role is also tough, we understand that this is across everything. You know, I think you can be transparent about the transparent about that with your team. You know, I've had to come into the meetings with my team sometimes, like during a pandemic, and say, I have no idea what we're going to do. They're like, Hey, you're the CEO. You're supposed to now to get us out of this pandemic when we've lost 90% of our revenue. I'm like, I don't know, but we're going to figure it out today. Yeah, together, yeah. And they're like, Yes, oh, okay, okay. And I didn't need, I didn't need to get their buy in. They were already bought in. Because they're like, Okay, Chris believes in us to help us get through this. And they went up above me, on to deliver, to be able to do that. Because there's a sense of, a sense of weed and deny coming into the you know, I believe we should do this. What should we do? You know exactly,
Laila Gillies 34:23
very different when they're involved in the solution, just informed of the progress,
Chris Rainey 34:28
yeah. How do you get buy in? Well, they're in. They're already in from the beginning. It's their ideas already. I want to ask you this question, what's, what's some positive feedback? Do you personally receive that still surprises you.
Laila Gillies 34:43
It's the level of business acumen that I have that is it's one of those like, if I could, if I could, change one thing about HR, it's still kind of that stigma. I. Of, you know, HR or a transactional function that, you know, we've come such a long way since then, I'm almost done, like, you know, because, like, really, it's like, that needs to just die off now. But we, because we've, we've, we've earned kind of a reputation as strategic business partners, who are, you know, were collectively responsible for the performance and invested in it. And something I hear a lot is just, oh, you know, you know a lot about the business for an HR leader or, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Chris Rainey 35:36
thanks.
Laila Gillies 35:39
It doesn't happen, you know, inside of the business as much because this is, you know, I'm fortunate enough to work for an organization where HR are perceived as a strategic function, and, you know, one that is truly valued and respected. But, you know, often when I am say, like, you know, interviewing or like, meeting people who are joining coming in, they would have a different perception. It's that bias. And so it's kind of like, yeah, they mean it as a compliment, which is, you know, it's not too hard on them. And you're like, and you're like, really, you should expect that of all HR leaders. And if there isn't a level of business acumen, then there's probably something wrong. Something
Chris Rainey 36:23
wrong. I did a video one time where I went on to the street to, like, the Financial District Canary Wharf in the UK, and I just grabbed the microphone and just asked random people with the public, what does HR do? And you'd be shocked, hire and fire people. Yeah, it was it was bad. It was bad. Like, I didn't point. I didn't even publish it. It was that bad, literally. And it was like, these are like, you know, I wasn't interviewing. I was in Canary Wharf, all the financial like, I was interview. I was asking executives, you know. I wasn't asking like, I mean, I'm not executives. I was asking like, you know, people who worked in businesses. It wasn't like I was asking kids, you know, as at schools, or, you know, like I was asking business professionals and from some of the world's largest companies, right? And I asked them, you know, what company to work for? Some of them said that agreed to tell me the name. Some didn't, obviously. But it was, like, overwhelming. I think we had like, two people the entire day that really gave an answer that made sense. That actually was like, HR, strategic partner. But I was like, because, because we're in like, a little bubble here, yeah, where I'm speaking to great people like you every day, and I'm obviously having amazing conversations. But I forget sometimes i that at the moment, I was like, Oh, wow. Outside of my bubble of influence and all of my network, this is the perception still, yeah, so we still, so the fact that I thought we done a lot of work. We still got a lot of work to do. We've got we've got way more, yeah, which is frustrating, but also as an opportunity at the same time. So yes, yeah, last question before let you go, what are you most grateful for?
Laila Gillies 37:57
I am, and if you're asking me my personal life, you know, I have to say my family, my children. As an HR leader, though I am, I I'm in a position where the decisions that I make influence people's lives and their livelihood and their families and their, you know, it's kind of like their careers and how they feel in general, and that is, there's so much kind of responsibility, you know, it's a big weight that comes with that. And it's my honor and my pleasure to, you know, to be in that position, to be entrusted in this role. And I am, I find that because the decisions, because there's so much weight around them, I am more thoughtful and considerate about every decision that is made, understanding the impact that it's going to have. And so I am, I am grateful to be entrusted to you know, kind of like be in a role that has such an impact on the business and the people in it in such a meaningful way.
Chris Rainey 39:15
Yeah, I feel like people didn't hear our conversation offline, but I felt like from just getting to know you today, that this was about this sounding cheesy. It was meant to be given your background, experiences, upbringing, everything this your why, your purpose is aligned, and the role as well. So I appreciate you taking the time to come on. I'm so happy that you're we have people like you in the role and in their profession. And yeah, wish all the best until we next week.
Laila Gillies 39:50
Thank you, Chris. I really enjoyed being here. And yeah, I hope to connect soon. Thanks. Ai.