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In today’s episode of the HR Leaders Podcast, we welcome Victoria Klug, HR Director Eastern Europe at Beiersdorf.

Victoria discusses her experience transitioning from industrial technology to the FMCG industry and the exciting transformation Beiersdorf is undergoing.

She shares insights on balancing performance and care, developing a culture of empathy and courage, and leading impactful sustainability initiatives. Victoria also explains how Beiersdorf’s “Win with Care” strategy shapes their people and business roadmap, emphasizing the importance of sustainable, people-centered leadership.

🎓 In This Episode, Victoria Discusses:

1. Creating a sustainable and inclusive workplace.

2. Beiersdorf’s “Win with Care” strategy drives impact.

3. The need for courageous yet empathetic leadership.

4. Balancing high performance with empathy for team well-being.

Deel is the all-in-one payroll and HR platform for global teams.

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Deel works for full-time employees and independent contractors in more than 150 countries, compliantly.

And getting set up takes just a few minutes.

Victoria Klug 0:00

We see both extremes. Sometimes we see an extreme performance orientation where it's only about, you know, we have white spots here, and we can grow here, and there's a fantastic business opportunity. Let's get it done by yesterday. And that's where we see a lot of people then also running after unrealistic targets and being driven by something it's just not feasible, you know. And that's where the empathy part is missing, or the care part is then also missing, where we also need to say, how do we do this in a sustainable way, so that we a also have our team there, but also then, you know, build a sustainable business for the future, but really having that, that conversation and that awareness on we need to make sure that we have both, that we have the business performance and the outcomes that we want, but at the same time that we also drive for meritocracy and we also drive for that caring attitude.

Chris Rainey 0:54

Victoria, welcome to the show. How are you?

Victoria Klug 0:56

I'm good. Thank you very much. Pleasure to be here.

Chris Rainey 0:59

It's crazy, like when we last spoke. You just started this, this new role, and now I say new, it's been a year already. It's

Victoria Klug 1:05

been almost a year. Fantastic to be honest. I mean, it's it's been quite a change for me, coming from the industrial technology industry and now going into the FMCG industries. I'm with beersdorf now, but it's been fantastic to see a new industry, to see a new business, to explore also new region. It's my first time that I'm in Eastern Europe and based out of Vienna. So for me, there's been a lot of firsts and a lot of learnings in that first year. Vienna

Chris Rainey 1:33

is not a bad place to be located. Let's be honest, that's a pretty cool, yes,

Victoria Klug 1:37

yeah, exactly. Vienna is amazing. Yeah,

Chris Rainey 1:41

it must be quite a big change in terms of the industries, maybe even culturally, right? Do you find also people know about because obviously, like, I know the obviously the company, but many people probably know the products, but they probably don't know bysdorf, right? They know. They may know Nivea Kareem, yes,

Victoria Klug 2:01

I would expect, I would hope, and I think a lot of people would also know our very cool Derma brand user in which is also lovely brand. I love their products. And then also we have Hansa plus, which is the plasters. And I think that's also at least parents like we are. I think we all know plasters, and we all know Hansel plus very well, yeah.

Chris Rainey 2:21

So first Tell, tell everyone kind of why you joined, but also kind of the the current state of play, because it's quite different from when a year ago, when we spoke, you made a lot of progress. Just kind of fill everyone in, and we can jump into some of the topics.

Victoria Klug 2:35

Yeah, absolutely. So I joined Baier stuff after having been 13 years at Siemens, and I just really wanted a change, to be very honest, a change of industry, a change of scenery. So I was just really curious to also be part of a big transformation. And I was very happy when I also found out that BIOS dove was really going through that transformation, both from a business side of you, but also from an HR point of view. And that was really the selling point, also for me, transforming the way we work, transforming the way we do HR, also really pioneering and leap frogging in a lot of the areas in HR, where we now have a chance with our fantastic ch O, also to really put a dent into the world of HR and beers Dorf. So that was the reason for change, and also what happened already in the first years? I mean, I can say we are about to digitize our HR work even more. We are about to professionalize it even more and also scaling it even more, because we as a company are experiencing growth. So we are also scaling towards record high sales, and also we are growing as a company. So we also need to be ready for that growth and for that complexity that we are also facing as a company. So it's been fantastic to be part of it, and, yeah, very happy to see where it leads us. Also, over the next couple of

Chris Rainey 3:50

years, amazing. And I know before you kind of got to the technology piece, which is obviously four throws of now, which is obviously a lot ongoing journey, one of the focuses when you came in was on sort of the core values, the purpose, the, you know, the mission statement. Can you talk a bit more about because I obviously, I looked online, you know, and one of the questions I had was, you know, how does biodoure purpose to care beyond skin, you know, shape your people and business strategy?

Victoria Klug 4:14

Absolutely. And I think that's also some of the very exciting work that we've been doing over the past year. So we also just launched our new company strategy, which is called win with care. And exactly in that company strategy, we have really, yeah, talking about how we want to be, and I think we actually are already the best skin care company in the world, and our purpose also to get there is to care beyond skin and I think that's something that I also felt joining Baier store completely new beginning of the year. It's something that I felt most probably the care that you can feel. It's not just something that you that you put on a slide, but it's something that you feel in each and every discussion. It's something that you also feel as the corporate responsibility that the company really takes very seriously and also. As the social commitments that we as a company make. So also just talking about our strategy a little bit more. I mean, for example, one, one of the elements that we have in there is really that we want to drive performance with purpose, yeah, so that we don't only just say, you know, net sales need to go up and we need to get higher. I mean, everyone loves that, and obviously that's also one of reasons in a capitalist system for existing but at the same time, we are also very, very keen on making a positive societal impact. And I can only say for as an example for that, something that BIOS dot has, and I think it's also quite interesting we have, every year we have a cabbie on skin day, where we bring our teams, our managers, all together around activities that really contribute and give back to society. So whether it be, you know, building something in a in a homeless shelter, whether it be you know, nature and clean up projects, whether it's something where we engage with with vulnerable people from our communities, so it's really amazing to also see that, and we are also driving this consistently as part of our people roadmap. And one of the elements that we are also now integrating, and want to put an even bigger focus on, is, for example, the inclusion, also of people with disabilities. I feel like it's one of the aspects that's very often overlooked. We talk a lot about, you know, women leadership. We also talk a lot about pride and supporting our fantastic LGBTIQ community. And I feel like one of the elements that we are not so often talking about is, for example, also the inclusion of people with disabilities. So that's something where we as a company also want to make a difference now and put ourselves also ambitious targets that we that we want to reach. Yeah,

Chris Rainey 6:39

no, I love that taking a step back, like, what, what? What was the strategy in terms of how best to communicate this, right? And also, how did you discover kind of where the areas were to focus on, what's important? Because you can obviously go different 100 different directions. But how did you identify this is what you know means the most to our employees. This is what they're telling us. Yes, and then choose, as a team where you're going to allocate time and resources? Yeah,

Victoria Klug 7:04

absolutely. So there was a small nucleus of people that really developed this, and it was, of course, with people from our board, so who, of course, also had their their own ambitions in terms of where we want to go as a company. But then we also had people really, from all over the world. So country managers from different countries with various different cultural backgrounds. We had people from HR. We also had external input, because we also said, you know, we also need to see what the world out there looks like. And then we validated a lot of those ideas, and also see what landed, what resonated really well with the people. And then we arrived to a set of the of the strategy also supported by our core values. They haven't changed. They've been the same. So we are still committed to care, we're still committed to trust, to courage and also to simplicity that stayed the same. So that's also something that really gives orientation and a sense of continuity to people when you introduce especially a new company strategy, and then also new leadership model. And especially when we introduced the new leadership model, we decided to run workshop sessions with all our people, leaders, really, across the board in all of the countries, so that we also bring that to life, you know? And it's not just a, hey, here's our leadership model, and this is what you have to do, but it's a, this is the leadership model. It's very simple. You know, it's three elements. And then we go into a reflection, like, what of those elements resonate with you? Where do you feel you also already have an element of mastery? So where you feel comfortable also with, what are the elements of that leadership model that you probably also don't feel so comfortable with, and what are the things that you would really like to work on? And one thing that I really liked is we did that almost like a podcast reflection we did as part of it. So we really sent people off on their journeys for half an hour. We had a little podcast recording with exactly those questions where they could reflect and take the time. Because that's one of the things that I really see a lot. I mean, leadership is so important. And one of the big elements also of our leadership model, by the way, is to self reflect and evolve. And that requires some time and some uninterrupted time on the

Chris Rainey 9:13

spot in the room with people, right let me just reflect right now, why everyone's here? Yes, exactly.

Victoria Klug 9:18

And that's why we said, let's go on. Sorry, apologies, yeah, no, no, that's also where we said, let's, let's very purposely, purposefully, let's, let's really design for an experience that allows people to withdraw themselves from the noise, from the emails, from the ongoing, you know, discussions, and have that, that reflection, and then we come back and also share that as a group. And that's something that we are rolling out as a company right now. So really activating it, country by country and business unit by business unit, and really jumping a bit on the train of podcasts, but also at the same time, really allowing for everyone to have that uninterrupted time to self reflect and evolve.

Chris Rainey 9:58

I think I love the fact that you did. You. You were brave and sort of did a different medium because it is so accessible and easy. Yeah, to do that, they can do it on a train on the way home, you know, anywhere, basically, while they're working out.

Victoria Klug 10:11

You can repeat it, you know, you can repeat it after a month. You can repeat it after several weeks. You can repeat it after a year, even. And it still gives you good questions and some good insights into, into where you stand. No,

Chris Rainey 10:23

I love that. Where did you store it? Just accuracy, like, just just really random, but like, like, it's

Victoria Klug 10:27

no no on the SharePoint that we have that's exactly that's accessible for everyone, so everyone can also download it. And yes, it's safe. Yeah, you

Chris Rainey 10:36

mentioned in the leadership, the development, what are some of the you know, what it means to be a leader has changed a lot, right? You know, when I started as a manager for the first time 20 years ago, we weren't talking about leading with empathy. Yeah, we weren't. We weren't having conversations around well being right? That wasn't responsibility of a leader. That wasn't even something even you know, hybrid work, right? Why knows what it means to lead a remote team. So how have you reimagined that leadership program to ensure that you're preparing your leaders and managers for the future of work, which is really now

Victoria Klug 11:13

exactly which is happening? Yeah, so we opted for a very simple model, and we opted for three elements of that leadership model, and they are, win, grow and inspire. And you will find what with the wind pillar. You actually you stay in the realm of, you know, winning business, outperforming, raising the bar. And so this is an element of leadership that everyone, I think, feels comfortable with, that everyone knows, and I think that's also required in order to be talking about the the other two pillars. Then when we talk about grow, we really talk about the people side of it. So what you just mentioned also, you know, growing and building the best diverse teams. I mean, that was nothing that was really evident a couple of years back, but now, really putting it out there, we can only perform if we have the best and diverse teams out there. And also one of the one of the expressions, also, of the grow. Part of our leadership model is really to self reflect and evolve. So also putting every leader there, and you know, into that ownership and into that role of you are the best role model, by the way, for you people also, especially if you're leading teams, if you are leading leaders, also to make sure that you also take the time for yourself. And then the third part of it is really that inspire part, and that goes way beyond the organization, but also going into the contribution that we also as buyers do want to make into society. You know that inspiring others to act, inspiring the community around us, also making sure that we are proud ambassadors with the topics that we are doing into the society and communities around us also. I mean, one thing that that I notice also, and that's becoming more and more public now, is political statements, you know, making a statement, for example, on the International Day of People with Disabilities, to say, you know, positively purple, we are an employer that actively advocates for the right of inclusion and the advancements advancements of the right of inclusion of people with disabilities, putting yourself out there with statements like these, or, for example, when we had the European elections, our CEO made a very big and bold announcement also on, you know, Voting for democracy and what that also means for businesses. And I feel like that's the part of leadership that will come even more in the world that we are in right now that is very ambiguous, very volatile. I mean, tonight is election night in the US. You know exactly. I feel like everyone can relate and can also resonate to that. So it's something that we will see even more of, and where we also have to show even more our our corporate responsibility, our corporate citizenship, and also where we stand. We are not only there to make the big bucks, but we are also there to positively influence society. Yeah,

Chris Rainey 13:54

it's like, that's that again, that's a whole another thing that it wasn't something the companies in the past weren't expected to have a position, you know, and be public, whereas now employees are looking to their company saying, is this a company I want to work for? Is this company's values aligned with mine? And that wasn't something we spoke about before. There was never. No, yeah,

Victoria Klug 14:15

no. You also see that in consumer behavior. I mean, we also, because, of course, we are consumer product company, right? So, but we also see that, especially with a lot of our younger shoppers, I would say there is a lot of consideration into what is the brand that I'm supporting with the money that I'm putting by buying the product? You know, what are their practices? How ethical are they? What are their moral values? How do they treat their employees? How transparent is their supply chain. You know, it's all of these considerations that keep coming up and up and up even more. So also feel like it's not only a trend, but it's really something if you also want to exist as a sustainable company still in 150 years. It's something you need to have right now so that you're also not going. Extinct in the future. So

Chris Rainey 15:01

interesting. One of the cool things from our churro event I mentioned was at Merck, at their HQ, and their chief diversity officer, Celeste, was talking about how they have a committee for those exact circumstances, and they have a they've kind of put together, sort of some guiding principles around how and how, and if they respond to whether it's a political, you know, climate, or whether it's a disaster like a pandemic, and or it's a social justice, you know, like with George Floyd and stuff like that, and, and they've got, they've brought people from all over the business, from diverse perspectives and backgrounds that represent the organization and their customers and their communities. And that's been a game changer for them in terms of how they respond, yeah, because they have that amazing so yeah. And

Victoria Klug 15:46

on the other hand, I also feel like it also needs to be inside of us, so also coming again, back into into leadership development, and also finding your, you know, inner access, and also your inner strength and inner voice in terms of, you know, what is right and wrong for me and finding my voice, also on these topics, and also considering like, what is you know, where do I need to take a stance? And that also, it goes hand in hand also with having such a committee that also, of course, can make informed decision, and can also really help you in terms of finding an answer, but also each and every leader for him or herself, really considering, like, why is it so important that I also voice my opinion, or that I also don't stay silent on these topics, but I also really have a voice, and I think that's also a crucial part of leadership development, like helping every leader finding their own voice in terms of, you know, political stances, societal stances and really making a point there.

Chris Rainey 16:45

Part of that conversation is also things like leading with care, leading with courage, again, something that I was ever exposed to as a manager. What does that mean to you when you think about leading with care, leading with courage? How do you balance these values for success?

Victoria Klug 17:01

Yeah, for me, it's not a leading with care or leading with courage. For me, it's leading with care and courage. And I see that sometimes we have discussions also, are they mutually exclusive? Can you only be caring, or can you only be courageous? And what does that mean, but also unpacking the value of both care and both courage also at the same time, you know, and really seeing the truth also behind what really is care. And I mean caring is not pleasing everyone. Caring is also not making sure that, you know, everyone is happy at all times. But caring is also caring about the business, caring about people, caring about society. Caring can also be, for example, having it courageous and having a hard conversation when, for example, you also see that you know a certain performance is not matching the expectations. Or when you also see, oh no, with our business, it seems like we've tried X, Y, Z, and right now we are failing. It's also having the courage to then bring it up, and also being caring enough to say, what is it that is failing right now, and how can we stop this, or what can we do to really help the situation? So for me, it's a it's a yes and and that, that it's not mutually exclusive, but it's always that having care in mind also means caring about multiple instances of the business, and also having courage in mind also means that, you know, you can also very provocatively go forward, also sometimes aggressively go forward, but always, of course, with empathy for the people. So being hard on the topic, but at the same time also having empathy for people. That's probably what it means for me personally. Yeah,

Chris Rainey 18:40

I think it's a good segue to my next question, because I know there was a big launch of a global critical illness policy and employee assistance program. Talk about the inspiration behind that, but also the impact that it's having in the organization.

Victoria Klug 18:55

Yeah, absolutely. So that's one of the, I think, very good examples where you can see how we are being courageous, also as a company, and really positioning ourselves there. So we launched a global critical illness policy that basically means that when you have a critical illness, such as for example, cancer, that you maintain your salary, and also you keep your job for at least a year, but also above that, we can always talk. Of course, it's not like anyone loses their job immediately afterwards, but at least for that immediate phase of shock, of you know, dealing with a life threatening illness that you don't have to worry about a, your financial stability and B, you don't have to worry about your job. And that is something, I mean, we see the first cases where people are impacted and where they also now, yeah, take, take the critical illness policy up, and the the feedback that we are getting is just fantastic, you know, the feedback is thank you

Chris Rainey 19:52

so much for living your values at that point, right? Yeah, exactly. It's

Victoria Klug 19:55

like, thank you so much for being able to focus on, you know, really fighting for. Life right now, while I don't have to worry for all the rest that you know might come up, especially in, I mean, Western European countries, when not so much here in an uncomfortable situation, but in some of our countries, it's really like, you know, you get a couple of weeks of sick pay, and then you are out basically, and you don't, you don't have any financial stability anymore. So that's really made a big impact also. And I feel like that's also something that that our community internally, but also applicants, or, you know, people, people really looking for a job, really consider also as a factor, like that's really attractive. Same for the employee assistance program, where we also say we know that we drive for performance, and we know that we are also very ambitious company. I mean, we want to be, non less than the best skin care in the company in the world. So of course, that also comes with a certain performance orientation. Of course that also comes with a certain, you know, pressure sometimes, of course, that also comes with very ambitious targets. And at the same time we also say, you know, we care so much about our employees that also, not only when it's too late, I think sometimes we mistake these employee assistance programs for, oh my god, I have a burnout, and now I need to speak with someone, but already very early on, having the ability to speak with someone, having the ability to have a coach, having the ability to also speak with with experts. There on, maybe I'm not doing so good right now, or maybe I'm missing certain parts on my well being or my mental health is right now not the best. What can I do proactively in order not to get to a state where I burn out? So that's also something that that we absolutely value, and where we also see a lot of positive feedback.

Chris Rainey 21:35

I love that there's so many companies are too focused on, you know, they're not focused enough on preventative measures is that, oh, now you have an issue. Now it's, you know? So yes. So are you working for both of those areas you mentioned? Are you working with, like, an external partner on these things, like, who you free employ? Because these are questions that people ask in the chat, and they always like, Chris, why don't you ask who they use? So could you share, kind of, some of the partners that you're working with to bring these to life?

Victoria Klug 22:04

I actually need to check if I can share them all on the global critical illness policy. I mean, this is not a not a global provider. So there we really work country by country, and really these policies into writing and so on. On the Employee Assistance Program, I can provide you the name afterwards, I'm pretty sure,

Chris Rainey 22:25

because people are gonna ask, because they gonna like, who? Awesome, you know, as you know, because many of these companies, there's a lot of companies out there, right? So we get to understand, like you and the team, why you chose that organization, because it's so important to many people. As well, in terms of so we've kind of talked, we kind of spoke a lot about how you're kind of balancing employee care with business outcomes, because it has to be both. It only works both ways. What are some of the challenges that you see, that you're going to face in terms of maintaining this sort of we culture in a global scale as the business is growing, as you mentioned, yes, as you go through the digital transformation that you're going through right now, that's tough. Yeah,

Victoria Klug 23:12

it is, and it's always, it's always a rebalancing of both polarities. And as I said, also before, I think it's not mutually exclusive, and I think both can also hold true at the end, must hold true at the same time. So for example, what what we sometimes we see both extremes. Sometimes we see an extreme performance orientation where it's only about, you know, we have white spots here, and we can grow here, and there's a fantastic business opportunity. Let's get it done by yesterday. And that's where we see a lot of people, then also running after unrealistic targets and being driven by something it's just not feasible, you know, and that's where the empathy part is missing, or the care part is then also missing, where we also need to say, how do we do this in a sustainable way, so that we a also have our team there, but also then, you know, build a sustainable business for the future. The other extreme that I see is sometimes the, you know, overly caring attitude, which can also go into the effect of, I'm trying to please people. I'm trying to please everyone, and I'm trying to find the solution that also makes everyone happy. We are also not a basic democracy, you know, so that we will never be able to please everyone. So also there finding, finding a good way in between. And what I always find as a good like guiding principle is meritocracy. We're always driving for the best results. We are always driving for the best outcome. And if you always compromise on the, you know, least common denominator, you will not make everyone happy. You will also not get so far. So it's always like meritocracy. Where can we really make a dent, where can we maybe even, you know, sacrifice or make compromises, but really having that, that conversation and that awareness on we need to make sure that we have both, that we have the business performance, the outcomes that we want, but at the same time that we also drive for meritocracy, and we also drive for that. Caring attitude. So it's always, it's something that, even in our performance reviews, that we also now have as questions. It's also something that we have in our engagement service, yeah, so Exactly. So it's, it's also something that, as a wording we are institutionalizing now even more and more so that people also have that awareness and also have that common and shared language around you know, what does it mean to lead with care and courage? What does it mean to lead with people at the heart, but at the same time also contributing to our business? So that is, that is really something that we also see working quite well, to be honest. Yeah, so

Chris Rainey 25:34

it's awareness, but it's also accountability. Yes,

Victoria Klug 25:37

absolutely. It's, it's awareness, it's accountable. It's really accountability also. And I think what one of the one of the like guidelines that we also have for our core values, especially for courage, is to seek impact over harmony. And I think that's something that is quite powerful, if you also think about it. It's not that we don't like to have harmony. I mean, everyone strives for harmony, in a way, because it's something that we as human beings also like. But if we seek impact, and what's the best impact for all of us, I think that is very powerful to also have that as a guiding principles for meetings like and we even do that sometimes on our leadership teams, like, where are we driving right now for impact, or where are we driving for harmony, and then really putting yourself back there and asking yourself like, Oh, is that a discussion where I'm trying to make everyone happy, or is that rather a discussion that we should have at a different level? So that's actually a very simple tool for us to always hold ourselves accountable, also

Chris Rainey 26:35

sort of envisioning, like an infographic of impact and AI crossing over, yes, yeah. Next LinkedIn post,

Unknown Speaker 26:44

yeah, I

Chris Rainey 26:45

love it. Oh, my God. You can't have one without the other. But if you just have harmony, that definitely isn't an environment where innovation and disruption and challenging the status quo and growth happens and vice versa. Unless, if you don't have harmony, you're going to burn out and not even going to make it there in the first place. Another thing that's really important to you is sustainability. Could you share an example or a story around that highlights your commitment sustainability? What that looks like? Yeah.

Victoria Klug 27:15

Yeah, absolutely. So we as a company also really commit ourselves to very ambitious sustainability targets. And maybe one thing I can also share is the sustainability journey that we are also undergoing. So we, for example, also train now a significant amount of our employees to be net zero ambassadors. Because, of course, we also want to achieve Net Zero very soon. And those Net Zero ambassadors, they are really going around the company right now and training and upskilling all, not only our people leaders, but especially the ones that also are in direct contact with our customers, right so when we talk with our customers, key account managers, the sales personnel and so on, that they are also the ones really able to transfer or to transport that into the external world there, and it's something that we are also very passionate about, and it also goes hand in hand, not only the you know, CO two emissions and net zero and so on, but also sustainability in terms of, you know, people set up sustainability, also in terms of inclusion of people from all Different marginal communities, so that we also, as an employer, really play a big game here. And I think I mentioned earlier already, like very high on our strategic roadmap right now is the inclusion of people with disabilities, where we are also picking up speed now, also working with various different NGOs worldwide. Shout out here for Austria and the German speaking community, my ability is a great provider. So if people ask on the chat, I can only recommend Lynn. And we're just getting started there of putting also a road map together and getting all the accessibility assessments also done, so that we sometimes even when we think, Oh, we are so accessible, of course, and we only think about physical accessibility, but we don't think about digital accessibility. We don't think about is even our strategy or our recruitment process, or is any of that you know accessible to people with disabilities? So going through that whole process right now is also a big piece of our sustainability roadmap. Yeah, I

Chris Rainey 29:20

love that, because many people don't put sustainability in that in the same conversation, right? Yeah. They think of sustainability purely through Net Zero, etc. They don't even think about that sides. And I love the fact that you're taking the time to do that training, because one of the challenges is most people think, you know, what does this mean for me? Yeah, my role? How do I? How do I play a part and impact this? Right? So it's important to help people understand that everyone has a role to play as well. So

Victoria Klug 29:47

yeah, exactly. And that's also with the with the net zero ambassadors and with our net zero trainings, that's really also where we want to put people into the driver's seat and not only enable them, because honestly, it's also. Not so easy if you want to do it right, and if you really want to, you know, reduce CO two emissions effectively. And I mean, we, as a company, for example, I can say that we have a net zero ambition by 2045 so it's still a way to go, but especially if you take that into account. I mean, we have a lot of factories. We have a lot of packaging material. We have a lot of, you know, suppliers also that also need to be certified and so on. And if you then get into the details in a specific like, Where does our energy come from? What's the energy consumption, our production process? What do we use for, you know, packaging, material and so on. Like, scope one, scope two, emissions and so on. So it's a lot of detail that you also need to go through and being able to understand. It always sounds very sexy to say, Yeah, we are completely green, or we have, like, 50% you know, recyclable materials also, yeah, 50% is nice, but if you want to get to net zero by 2045 need to do much more than that. And that's where we put people into the driver's seat. And also have that. It's, first of all, it's an upskilling, and it's almost like an information session of understanding what that means, but then secondly, also making them experience through games and gamification and so on, like the choices that you also make as a leader, or the choices that we also make together with our customers, what kind of impacts do they also have on our greenhouse gas emissions? So that's it's it's really a cool journey to be part of, but still a lot of work to do. I

Chris Rainey 31:25

have to that's a lot in one year exactly, you've taken, you've taken a lot in and done a lot in a year. So congratulations to you and the team. Last question before I let you go, for people that are on a similar journey, you know, what advice would you give to them as sort of a parting piece of advice, of how to balance? Care and courage to drive success? You know, there's sort of one or two key takeaways. What would they be then we say, Yeah,

Victoria Klug 31:50

I think always, always having that, that inner ground in yourself, so also being very aware of and very self aware in terms of where are you leading with care? Where are you trying to be courageous? Where are you stepping into unknown ground? Where are you being bold? Like really having that self awareness and also instilling that in leaders, not only saying, Go out there be bold, but really instilling that, that self awareness, that reflection, that always you know being at the edge of I know exactly what I can do next, and I know exactly when I can play bold, and I know exactly when I can play also more on the caring side, I think that is probably the most important one. And then always having meritocracy in mind, like, what's the outcome that we all want to have, and seeking impact over harmony. So that's probably also where, where I would say, focus on that. Takeaway

Chris Rainey 32:42

was, I'm so happy that you're doing well, and appreciate you coming back on the show and looking forward to speaking to you again. We have to do like part two of digital transformation.

Victoria Klug 32:52

We should, we should do

Chris Rainey 32:54

that because you're on that journey that's a long journey, that's an ongoing journey. But I mean, I think anyone listening right now or watching can see your energy, your enthusiasm for where you are. So clearly, you're in the right place right now, and we wish you all the best until we next

Victoria Klug 33:10

week. Thank you so much. Was a pleasure. You.

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