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In today's episode of the HR Leaders Podcast, we welcome Nicole Peace, Chief People Officer at AIS, a leading IT consulting firm.

Nicole shares her inspiring journey from the world of art to HR leadership, emphasizing the importance of business acumen, strategic HR, and modernizing processes for rapid growth in an established company.

🎓 In this episode, Nicole discusses:

1. How a creative foundation led to innovative HR solutions.

2. The significance of business acumen in HR’s strategic role.

3. The critical shift from administrative to business-focused HR.

4. Building credibility as an HR leader while balancing tradition and transformation.

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Nicole Peace 0:00

Ask questions. Being in HR, we all have those employees that we develop relationships with, that we're close with, ask them about a day in their life, ask them what you know, what they specifically do, especially if you have brand new relationships with leaders in your organization, ask about the company's goals, ask what it is, and then some of those answers will lead to things that you could research. Same with the networking. If you network more, you'll just start to learn more from the conversations. Immerse yourself in the business outside of the HR function. If you're only around your HR team and not other elements of the business, it's going to be hard to learn more than just that.

Chris Rainey 0:40

Nicole, welcome to the show. How

Nicole Peace 0:41

are you I'm doing great, Chris, how are you doing?

Chris Rainey 0:43

Yeah, I'm good. We're like, HR and art besties. Like, you're like, and that's like, a rare I don't know if that's a rare combination. Is there a lot of other HR practitioners and art fans out there let us know in the chat? I'm sure there aren't loads. I'm sure all my last episodes, I just interviewed at the coro of Kelly Services, and behind her there was a picture of a painting. And I said, What's that painting behind you? She said, It's a painting of all of my teams and my team members. And she got commissioned. And I was like, Why? Why? Why? Why is it set up like that? She said, everyone's backs turned because it's a reminder that we've got each other's back. Oh, how cool. Yeah. And then she sent a copy of the painting to all the team members, and it's just all of them turned around with their backs facing, all next to each other. And it's like, I was like, that's cool. So that so, so yeah. And I thought that. I thought that was really, really cool. So there are others out there.

Nicole Peace 1:40

I know you're coming for us many but I mean, hey, I think it makes sense. So creative foundation and creative solutioning in HR is kind of what we

Chris Rainey 1:47

do. Yeah, Amy's like that, who I was just referring to at Kelly. So people have no idea what I was just referring to. So the reason I was referring to that is obviously your, your you have quite an unexpected journey, pivot from art to HR. So let's start there and we can jump in, yeah, yeah,

Nicole Peace 2:01

sure. So I did Yes. Got ahead of it. I went to school for art. I was planning on being an artist since I could remember, since I was a little kid. I went to the University of Miami, and I graduated with a BFA focus in painting, and that was what I was set to do. I actually started a mural painting business while still in school doing commissioned residential murals. And I did that for several years after school, supplementing with waitressing, as many artists do. And it was about when I think I was 25 I had the realization that I did not want to do art as a means of income. Long term, same here,

like, okay, yeah, yeah,

for many reasons. I mean, not even I was actually pretty successful in bringing in income. It wasn't about that. It was really a couple reasons. One, it was starting to chip at the passion for the medium.

Chris Rainey 2:52

That's exactly same with me. It wasn't about the money I was making money, but I was like, the joy. I was losing the joy and the passion for it because it was my income, yeah, exactly, especially doing

Nicole Peace 3:04

mission based work, where you know you're really having to focus on what the client wants versus what you just went to school to learn. So that was difficult. But I think the main driver for me, really, was I realized I really like people, and I like working with people, and I art can be really isolating, especially the way I was working. I was painting murals in people's homes while they were off at work, and wasn't getting a lot of opportunities to interact, and I found myself looking forward to my waitressing shifts more than my

Chris Rainey 3:37

paintings. Really interesting. Wow, that must have been an eye opening moment when you kind of realized that eye opening

Nicole Peace 3:43

and caused a little bit of a quarter life crisis.

Chris Rainey 3:46

Of course, you just spent all this time studying art and investing your time energy, your vision, your future. I did the same thing. I studied art as well, as you know, and I realized halfway through college I dropped out. But when I was halfway through, I was like, this isn't, this isn't what I want to do as a job. And then I was like, What do I do now? And then I got a job in telesales, and the jobs, the rest is history. Now I do this. That was a, that was a telesales job, selling to HR people. So,

Nicole Peace 4:18

yeah, you selling to HR just like everybody by

Chris Rainey 4:21

accident, yeah. So what did the journey from there then talk us through, kind of how you then kind of moved into the space and where you are now, yeah?

Nicole Peace 4:32

So at that point, even having the realizations, I didn't want to do art, I didn't know what I did want to do. I just knew I wanted a consistent schedule, waitressing, evenings, weekends, all that I was looking to move away from that so consistent schedule, steady stream of income. And to me, that just meant an office job. And so I just started applying without any real direction, just for office jobs. And I was fortunate enough that. Somebody I knew mentioned they were struggling to hire an office administrator for their office, and I interviewed for that position, got it, and it turned out to be an office administrator job, but it was about 20% Office admin and about 80% HR, and that's where I got into HR, and never turned back from there. Yeah, and, and luckily, luckily for me, looking back now, I realize how fortunate this opportunity was. It was working for a pretty large government contractor, and I was in a division supporting about 250 employees. Those employees all worked on client sites. There was only about seven of us in our office, and they were other than myself, all senior leaders. So I was immersed in high level business conversations from the get go. Oh, that's incredible. Yeah, and, and, and in an atmosphere where I could ask a lot of questions, and they were very inclusive, I was part of the weekly staff meetings. I went to strategic off sites. So I don't think I realized it at the time, but now, being at this stage in HR, realizing that my introduction was more business and operations, and the HR fundamentals and expertise followed has really been beneficial for me. For the rest of my career.

Chris Rainey 6:10

I loved it. I think most people, including me, I didn't get exposed to that level of conversation. So maybe, like, six to eight years, maybe into my career, I was in that in those rooms, having that conversation. So for you to have that from day one, and that be your norm, you know what, in terms of what you're being exposed to, it must, yeah, now again, you can't appreciate at the time, but now you can look back and go, Wow, actually, you know, that was pretty cool in terms of your development, because you're already a strategic you know, we're already working thinking about leading from the business perspective, etc, working backwards as opposed to traditional HR, so you kind of work backwards instead of devil way, right? Yeah, as well, which is really cool. Tell everyone quickly a little bit about the business, just in case they aren't aware of the organization. I want to make sure we cover that. Yeah,

Nicole Peace 6:58

definitely. So I work for AIS Applied Information scientist sciences. We're a employee owned it consulting firm right outside of Washington, DC, and we serve large commercial and government organizations in providing solutions for digital transformation. So we focus in cloud app development, data management, and of course, now, AI love it.

Chris Rainey 7:20

What does it mean by employee owned, by the way,

Nicole Peace 7:22

so we have an ESOP and an employee stock ownership plan, and so all of our employees become owners and add shares throughout their tender with the organization.

Chris Rainey 7:34

Yeah, is that? Is that quite an important part of what shapes the culture?

Nicole Peace 7:39

I think so. I mean, it's a testament to the organization too, right? And I must say, being CPO at an organization that has an ESOP and shows how much they value employees is makes my job alive. But after all, you know, we are a service based organization. Our product is essentially our people, and this is a way of showing that we're all in it together, and that everyone benefits from our growth and where the company is able to go. Yeah,

Chris Rainey 8:08

talk us through your your journey in the organization, because you side, I believe, as VP of H, VP of HR, right? And now you, this is your first CPO role. You've evolved into that role, talk us through, like, what you know when you came into the business, what was the mandate, the objective, the mission, and sort of how that's evolved now into the role of CPO, yeah.

Nicole Peace 8:33

So when I joined the organization, was celebrating its 40th anniversary at that time. And I had come from a startup, so that seemed like, like the longest tenure ever with organization and and I came in. And, speaking of tenure, we have an amazing we have leaders who have been here 1015, 2030, years. But I was brought into, I would say, to modernize the HR function and and at the time, there wasn't people operations. We had HR recruiting, lnd admin, all the different areas were, I wouldn't say, siloed, but run separately or without the, you know, the CPO role. And so when I came in, I was solely focusing on core HR, and for me, I realized coming to a fully established organization, that building credibility would be one of my first main goals, but doing so carefully, right? I wanted to come in and build credibility by getting things done from the beginning, but I also wanted to respect that there's a lot of history here, and that I don't want people in the china shop. So to do that, I really focused on building stakeholder relationships, listening and learning, learning the why we are where we are and what we're trying to do now. So the company is. As I mentioned, over 40 years old, but a couple years ago, we changed and pivoted a little to be focused on a little bit more rapid growth. So we're trying to do new things, trying to change, trying to evolve. So for me in HR, my goal was to add efficiencies to our processes, modernize our processes, bring in new tools and ways to do things faster and also reduce costs. At the same time, while I was doing that, I did start to feel that that every all the areas of HR being separate, that cross function collaboration was so necessary to to achieve the things we were all trying to achieve. And at the same time, I felt there was a need for a consistent voice representing all the people operations group with an executive level conversations and decisions. And so I didn't feel I needed a title to do that. I felt those are two things that I could just influence, and obviously, where appropriate, just start doing, especially the collaboration aspect. So really started promoting all of our teams coming together more frequently, showing how our processes work together and how we could be more impactful if we did have cross function initiatives.

Chris Rainey 11:10

Yeah, what was the when you came in? And obviously you got to spend a lot of time having conversations, building the relationships, but what was the relationship with indie employees and HR up until you joined, what did that look like, I would say, or how HR was perceived? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nicole Peace 11:31

HR was certainly perceived as white glove service, you know, Administrative Service. Admin and HR were one in the same, event planning, all the administrative duties, super helpful team, but not necessarily strategic or as business partners. So that was something I knew I wanted to evolve. But again, baby steps to doing that, to not not come in and change everything overnight, yeah,

Chris Rainey 11:59

walk us through that, because that's a really important thing, right? Some leaders I speak to, they say to me, you know, Chris, I spend maybe the first year just listing, traveling all over the world, meeting people on site, you know, meeting leaders individually, one by one, to truly understand the business right before coming in, being like, I'm gonna make all these changes, right as well. Was it a similar approach? Like, like, how do you build credibility specifically? Could you share practically what you did? Like, how did you build credibility in the business?

Nicole Peace 12:33

I mean, I did focus on things that seemed like they would only be a value add and wouldn't step on your knee toes. So one, it's just, it's an example I go to frequently, and it's not that big a deal. But when I came on, I filled out a paper healthcare application. And we have, at that time, we had 500 employees, and so I asked my team, I'm like, do you onboard everyone with a paper application? Do we do open enrollment with paper applications? And and they said yes. And, you know, I then, then that leads me to how come our healthcare brokers didn't help you evolve or modernize your process. So we made broker changes. We made, you know, obviously healthcare enrollment, we made it electronic, started working on changing hrs, just all of the systems and tools that shouldn't step on anybody's

Chris Rainey 13:18

toes. Basically, yeah, yeah. Like, yeah, yeah. Step one laid a foundation.

Nicole Peace 13:27

Yeah, so. And then I would say, one of the next things I did, which, which, you know, was a little bit more change management around it, was bringing in a title architecture and compensation system, which led into, it took a little while, but we did a career framework around that as well. So some of the bigger, the bigger initiatives, starting rolling those out, and that's where how, in parallel, building stakeholder relationships to be able to explain why those are beneficial as changes needed for our employees. Yeah. Why?

Chris Rainey 13:56

Why go down the title architecture route when you know, obviously many organizations are moving to skills based organizations, etc. Do you think that was maybe just a step too far? The business just wasn't ready? That's like zero to 100 maybe, if you haven't already got a title architecture in place, going to say, hey, we're going to be a skills based organization. Maybe step too far.

Nicole Peace 14:18

I think so. I think it's like you do want to have the foundation before you get to the evolution? You know, I would say one of the first things that was asked of me to do was a pay equity study, okay? And I was like, yeah, no problem. And then I go to look at our data and have titles to do,

Chris Rainey 14:35

yeah, exactly. How do I even do again? That's a good point, right? We get asked a lot of those things. You're like, well, what's your data look like? What's the health, health of your data? You don't have that. And so you had to go take a two steps back before you could take a step forward. Yeah.

Nicole Peace 14:51

So data integrity, and now, you know, being able to run, run reporting and and analyze metrics, all that stuff has been a lot. Of the things we've been working over the last couple years.

Chris Rainey 15:01

Yeah, how did you go about creating given the previous perception of the HR function, creating a new brand slash voice for the function to help reposition you as strategic advisors, but also positioning in front of employees, as you know, not just the admin and policy police, etc. What did that look like?

Nicole Peace 15:31

Yeah, policy police, that's very true. Yeah, we. One thing I did was separate the two functions. You know, at this point we're all under People Ops, but admin and HR are separate. They're not one in the same. So we have a front desk role, we have an executive assistant, and then we now have HR business partners, and putting that title out there, which even that it's funny, I often say HR, VP, and everyone thinks I'm saying VP, and I'm like, No, it's a business partner. So it's like, just even getting the terminology for everyone. Terminology, yeah, exactly. So establishing new roles and then having the team support the organization in a different way. So one of the other things that this wasn't just me, it was. It was in collaboration with the rest of the leadership team, we did a massive restructure where we did develop different business units and clear, clear org structure, and everyone was given a manager, and all that evolution for the organization. That's when we switched to, okay, we have business partners for each of our BU. So that was a really good, you know, a combination change to start that trend of this is who you go to it for advice. We're still, we're still working at it. I'm not gonna lie. I mean, we still have a lot a lot of questions. Just go to our HR distro, right? And it's like the whole team, instead of knowing, you go to your business partner for advice, and they know whether they need to bubble it up or or delegate to someone else.

Chris Rainey 16:59

It's a it's more about being it's a big culture shift and change, right? Especially in an organization. Say, did you say 40 years? Sorry, I forgot. Yeah, we're, I think 43 now, yeah, right. So like, all of a sudden, that's going to take time, you know, to change, right? But I love the fact that you embedded those business partners in those different units as strategic advisors, not order takers, you know, so being really a partner to them, to help support them, but not do all the work, right? This is, this is the role, you know, managers, a lot of these things, probably that they were coming to you before. This is part of your role as well. This is not a HR, you know thing, that's quite a big change. Did you do something? You

Nicole Peace 17:44

want to be surprised that we've been doing a lot of managers.

Chris Rainey 17:47

Yeah, I want to say, I'm sure you're just a manager training. Then along the way, what would you say is, like the biggest challenge you faced from moving from VP of HR to CPO?

Nicole Peace 18:00

So two things I would say again, I was a year in here, so compared to everyone else here, I was still the newbie, and so I'm still building credibility, and now I'm building credibility in a new role that the role itself needs to build credibility. Because I think you know, just what is

Chris Rainey 18:17

the GP before? Yeah, it's the first one, right? You're the first CPA of the company. Okay,

Nicole Peace 18:21

yes, so that I don't, I think I didn't think about that going into the role that that even just establishing what that role is and what it means to the organization, was something that I would also have to be building and and showing. So that was a challenge. And then the other part of it was I didn't backfill myself in the VP of HR role time, and simultaneously, we had a change in our recruiting side, so I ended up doing my old role, doing my new role, and then also taking on another role, all in the same year. And it took me a little while to realize I'm stressed in too many places, and I'm not going to be able to do any of them well. So did did some hiring last year that has been hugely impactful for me.

Chris Rainey 19:11

Do you think that you needed the title change to add more credibility to the function? I'm not saying that. You know, VP of HR is not good enough. And also, yeah, I'm just saying, Do you feel like that? It was an important message that was sent to the business by making that decision.

Nicole Peace 19:30

I do. I don't know if it was needed. I think we still would have been able to do all the things we're doing. But I do. I do think seeing that title on our executive team, I hope, has been impactful and is sending a message, because I do believe the organization has always valued in place in that way, but ensuring that those that that is represented in those conversations, in the boardroom, everywhere we talk as an ELT, I think executive leadership team, sorry, using. What we and so, yeah, I think, I hope it was impactful. No, no, I

Chris Rainey 20:07

agree. I think, I think the answer is yes. I mean, even though I don't work in your company, I think important to send that message to the team you've gone from in the space of like, a year, from having no HR leadership to having a VP of HR and then the CBO, that's sending a very clear message to employees that we're serious about this and that we do really value so yeah,

Nicole Peace 20:32

and I will say that it also wasn't just saying we're going to put this title here to show that we value that, like really, totally welcoming this position onto our executive team, being part of business decisions as a whole. So it really, I'm grateful that it's been done exactly, exactly as we all in HR. Hope that position would be that was just one of those elements to okay, I do actually have a new role here. I am doing more business holistically, helping run the business while still trying to be VP of HR. So huge lesson learned there.

Chris Rainey 21:05

Yeah, one of the things I often hear from first time CBOs is is it's sometimes hard to get that boardroom experience before you then go jump into the seat for the first time, if that makes sense. Yeah. How? Has that been over the last two years? So what some of the lessons that you've learned along the way? What worked, what hasn't?

Nicole Peace 21:29

I will say, I'm very lucky at my last so the we skipped over a period where I was at a startup. Okay, yeah, so I started at the startup and was there for eight years to our eventual acquisition. I started in HR role, but, of course, at a startup, you wear many hats, but by the by the end of, end of that time, I wasn't there. I was a VP of HR, but that was part of the executive team, and I was briefing the board. So I did have some experience, but still a different scale, being in there, you know, as part of the C suite. So I hope I'm in each each board meeting. I'm getting a little better, but I think that I was fortunate enough that that wasn't my first, my first, the first, first board meeting here, I had awareness of what those those like. Well,

Chris Rainey 22:19

looking back then and even to the present, for people that will be sitting in there for the first time, what advice would you give to your colleagues?

Nicole Peace 22:31

Prepare, be prepared. Think through the questions that you that might be asked of you and and, you know, just be honest and genuine if you don't so know something on the spot, say that and commit to coming back with an answer. And and I think that's the biggest thing, you know, if you're too nervous, if you try to force out an answer that you don't actually have at the time, is only make it worse. Yeah,

Chris Rainey 22:53

that's such an important one. I want everyone listening to take note of as well. I've been there before. I thought I was trying to be the hero and always have an answer. And that's and that was a good it was actually the worst thing I could have done sometimes, to your point, just saying, I don't know, I'll get back to you right. And they would rather that you try and come up with an answer, because you just lose all credibility at that point. That's the opposite of what you should do. And so I'm sure you may have learned, like, learn that the hard way. Like me,

Nicole Peace 23:26

absolutely, or, you know, you after the meeting, you're definitely like, Oh my God, why did I say, or why didn't I say, you know, you think of the much more eloquent thing you could

Chris Rainey 23:36

have said, Yeah. How did you set up your team to be success, to be to give them what they needed to be success, successful, to execute division you just outlined.

Nicole Peace 23:48

So I knew that there, you know, the team I was inheriting was used to had different level of expectations, different duties. So I dove right into Level Ups training, promoting external trainings. Honestly, I talked a lot, sharing my vision, my excitement, my passion for HR, being business focused, but being very honest, we do have a slightly different looking team now than we did at the time, because not everybody wants to go on that journey. Now. Everybody wants that change, and that's okay, but so I did. I did have to do some workforce planning, ensuring I had the right people and the right roles, right time organization. And it's very difficult. You know, it's something a practice we advise other areas of organization on, but it's really hard to do yourself and to follow your own advice, so I will say I definitely focus first on training, inspiring, all that good stuff. But there have been some changes to ensure that the vision that's being brought to the executive table can be executed. Yeah,

Chris Rainey 24:58

so into. Singers in the last couple of 100 episodes that hasn't come up, and in literally, my last podcast, we just spoke about it. You know, unfortunately, Amy and Kelly Service Institute had to let go of 25% of her team as part of her HR team, as part of the transformation in exactly the way that you're describing as well. And we don't really talk about that a lot, because we prepare other parts of the business for it, other leaders for it. But it's a bit it's a little bit lonely sometimes when you're having to do it yourself, to your own team as well. And it's not easy, right? And Amy was I asked Amy, like, how do you deal with that? She's trying to have a good network of HR leaders around me. I have friends and families. It's tough, but we know you just have to know it is the right decision for the business as well. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, 100% so you've got a new team in place, yeah. So executing the vision. Can you give us an example of, like, of some of the things that you're doing that you think's having the most impact right now on the business?

Nicole Peace 26:10

Yeah, so we already touched on, I think both them a little bit, but I will circle back to the career framework. Just employees exit interviews. Since I've been here, have been asking how they know how they can move along their career inside this organization, there's so many employees who have been here for so when you have a 43 year old organization, there are employees who stay quite a long time, and navigating their career within and without having to leave is something that has been asked for for a long time. So I'm I'm very excited that we were able to finally roll that out and and it'll this upcoming performance review cycle will be the first one where they'll be a, you know, part of the conversations between employees and managers, and I'm really excited to see what comes out of that, and some of the likely promotions we're able to do now that there's clear guidance on what you need to do to get to the

Chris Rainey 26:59

next level. Yeah, it sounds like a simple detail, but it's so important because it's also one the reason I left my company. I was there for 10 years, and I just didn't see a path forward, because my boss wasn't going anywhere, and their boss wasn't going anywhere, and there was only one way up. It was a ladder structure, you know. There was an opportunity to move laterally in the business, you know? So I was like, I've been in the same job, literally, as a sales director, for four of those years out of the 10. And I was like, I'm gonna have to look elsewhere. So you gotta have a lot of great talent just leaving the business. They just don't see the opportunity to grow and develop. So especially in a company that's been around for long as yours, you have to have that conversation as well. So I'm sure you're going to see a great increase in retention and engagement.

Nicole Peace 27:49

I hope so. And we did focus on the lateral, you know, we did, you know, we we talked about it as a lattice, right? Anyway, sideways, diagonal, all different ways. So excited about that. And the other thing is the data and reporting and metrics, especially on the recruiting side right now, really, you know, you're always in conversations, we're not filling roles fast enough. And you know the talent acquisition sides like, yes, we are, and without the data to show, time to fill what we're really working with, it's, it's so it's so important to have that data to talk about in your in your business meetings and reviews and all that. So data is a huge part of what we're doing,

Chris Rainey 28:32

especially this year. Yeah, and it sounds like then, if you that you've got the support of business in terms of from an investment standpoint, because these things you need, you need, you need to invest to do that. You

Nicole Peace 28:44

do we, we actually just rolled out workday and trying to get it all set up to have all of the fields, all of the things that we could possibly need. Of course, that's a learning curve

Chris Rainey 28:56

itself, own transformational journey. Yeah,

Nicole Peace 29:00

so but, but I do think it's going to soon have just a lot of that, the capabilities and then, and then also, you know, hrs, the hrs here, everyone's used to that only being HR. I want managers. I want leadership and access to that

Chris Rainey 29:16

information. Yeah, I, I love the fact that you jumped into this. This this is that, is that one of the things that excited you about this job is that you have the opportunity to come in and really build from the bottom up, and have really an opportunity to truly make a change and transform the company. Is that

Nicole Peace 29:33

absolutely, you know, I so I had this experience at a startup where I literally built everything from scratch, didn't I was a little exhausted to do something like that again, but that company was acquired by a huge organization. I only stayed there for a short amount of time while I did it was a really great reminder of the benefits and the resources and the formality of processes and procedures you're trying to scale to so. But also a reminder of the formalization and the bureaucracy that you're trying to avoid. So I did realize that, least right now in my career, a large organization where I won't be able to make that much difference or impact or changes, wasn't really what I was excited by. And I was, I was fortunate enough to be recruited here to AIS, and once I, once I met with our CEO and CFO, it's supposed to be like a half hour conversation. We ended up talking for almost three hours. And I just realized, yes, this is what I'm missing. I want to come in and make a difference. And it's exciting. Yeah,

Chris Rainey 30:32

it's so interesting, because I speak to other peers of yours that the idea of what you're talking about is their idea of a nightmare. You like, and then vice versa, you'd be like, I don't want to go and work in a very large company, just slow moving that I don't have any you know, does it where there's tons of red tape where I can't make progress? Whereas they're like, We love that. So it's just so intro. And there's others that I speak to that love the whole they love working in companies that are just constantly growing by mergers and acquisitions. And that's a whole another, yeah, so another beast as well. So super interesting always to see the different you see, like, See, I know citroes that go from very large multinationals to startups and really struggle, right? You know? Or vice versa. This is because it's just different things and different skills and experiences that you bring to the table. I

Nicole Peace 31:24

think I'm lucky. I mean, I've had a really great diversity of roles and organization size. I've done mid very large startup, and I think that's why I really love it, this opportunity, because it's 43 years old. We are kind of functioning like a startup. We took on venture capital about four or five years ago, and that really infused that growth and everything we're trying to do. So it's almost like a startup, but with 40 years of resources. So that's a really unique opportunity and super

Chris Rainey 31:54

interesting. Well, especially in the industries that you're operating right now, they're exploding the pace of innovation and change is just crazy. So you do need that. This a four year old business does need to be agile. And in order to be able to do that, they need a world class HR team that can help them do that and achieve that you cannot approach, especially the industry you're in that with, you know, old, outdated processes where you're moving very slowly to be able to do that, and you also need to be attract, go, to attract and retain world, world class talent to be able to do that. So clearly, makes sense. Why the team making the investment to bring yourself in? What about your personal development? Where do you find time this you're, you're, you're, you're going 100 miles an hour right now, right where are you finding time and how you upning yourself personally?

Nicole Peace 32:48

Yeah, that was a realization for me about a year and a half ago that that I had let that drop off, you know, partially because of the pandemic, partially because of having young kids, but I really was heads down in my career, but not self developing. And once I started in the CPO role, I realized I'm not going to be able to be successful if I don't focus on so that said I was concerned. I was like, I don't know where to find time. So for me, this worked well. For me, I come into the office daily, so I do have a commute. And previously, I was listening to, I don't know, talk radio, making, maybe making phone calls I didn't have to, and I decided that I will reserve that time for listening to business and leadership books, HR podcast, and just always continuing to learn while I was in the car. And it's amazing how fast they add up, I have a kind of bad habit of buying a physical book every time I listen to the audible so that I then can reference back to it, give it to others. And my bookcase is getting extremely full and it, you know, I that was time I wasn't really doing anything else. So that's how I was able to do that and and getting back into conferences and other things, as well into the HR leaders summit this summer in New York. Made sure I made time for that and and then I being proactive about my networking. I realized that it really had let it be organic. I did have a network, but it just kind of happened, and I wasn't proactive enough about it, and I didn't have enough other CHRO CPO type people in my life to be able to discuss whatever I needed to discuss with. So I decided to be more purposeful there as well, and just started going to more events, taking up offers to go places, and stepping out of my comfort zone, reaching out to people that maybe I wouldn't typically and just saying, Hey, would you like to talk? And and so far, it made a lot of new contacts.

Chris Rainey 34:47

It's funny how that's such a like, a scary thing for some HR people to do is to reach out to people like, maybe, like a LinkedIn message and say, Hey, would you connect? Because the fear of not getting a reply, because it's sort of normal human. Being like, like, I take that for Garner because I just, I always, my friend Shane's always like, you just don't care, Chris. You just reach out anyway. You don't really, you know, not worried about someone doesn't reply, or stuff like that. But you'd be surprised to your point, as you said, the amount of people that will reply and you build some incredible relationships. That's kind of how we're talking right now, right? Yes, I was willing to be chatting right now. You wouldn't have we wouldn't have seen you in New York and like, that's kind of how it starts. And a lot of leaders used to always tell me, I don't have time for this. And I always say, like, that's why you don't have time. It's because you're making the time. If you made the time to actually network, you probably would save a lot of time by being able to tap into this incredible network to get some to help you overcome some of these challenges, which is consuming your time. So it's kind of like you have to make it, you know, yeah, yes. It's not you don't have time, which is how you choose to spend it,

Nicole Peace 35:52

right? Exactly. It's hard when you're in the thick of it, but I

Chris Rainey 35:56

get it, yeah, I Yeah, it's hard, right to do it. We spoke a lot about the journey, any other kind of pieces of advice you'd give to other HR leaders as well that are kind of on the journey to especially leading it. Being a CPO for the first time,

Nicole Peace 36:17

touched on a little, but just to emphasize, I really, I really advise future HR leaders to learn your business, learn the industry your business supports, because your HR expertise will only go so far if you don't know the business you're applying it to. And so I would say, focus on building your business acumen the same, if not more, than your HR expertise. And I know that's just speaking to my experience, but that was very beneficial for me in my career, of having having that business acumen, in addition to the HR expertise, and especially with the transformation HR is going through, it's just, it's just very necessary, I think, in the current time of HR, yeah,

Chris Rainey 36:56

what does that practice? Do you look like, though? How did you go about doing that.

Nicole Peace 37:00

I think that, you know, just ask questions like, you know, being in HR, we all have those employees that we develop relationships with, that we're close with, ask them about a day in their life. Ask them what you know, what they specifically do, you know. Then, especially if you have really relationships with leaders in your organization, ask about the company's goals, ask what it is, and then some of those answers will lead to things that you could research other and then, of course, same with the networking. If you network more, you'll just start to learn more from conversations. Immerse yourself in the business outside of the HR function, if you're only, if you're only around your HR team, and not other elements of the business, it's going to be hard to learn more than just

Chris Rainey 37:41

that. Yeah, I remember like, years and years back when I was like, probably, like, two years into my sales draw, I was like, what, like, 20 I read a book, and one of the things it was in this book was like, how to get ahead in business, something along those lines. And I was like, invite the senior leadership team for like, lunch or for like a so I messaged all of you know, I was like, so far down the food chain in the company, but I messaged all like, the CEO and cmo and everyone, and I was like, Hey, I love to, you know, meet you for lunch. This is who I am. I work on this project. I work on the HR event because I'd love to learn more about your role and how I can help you. And I've wrote a little script. Yeah, yeah. Nearly all of them said yes, and I nearly had I needed a heart attack, but yeah, when I saw the replies, I was like, What am I even gonna talk to them about? Right? But it was one of the best things I ever did in my career. Yeah? And guess what happened? I got invited to certain conversations and certain meetings I was exposed to certain, you know, and all of a sudden it opened up a whole new and I was still one of 300 sales executives, and this huge, like, with a huge sales floor, like, just cold calling, outbound sales floor, and I was just, you know, and even my manager was like, What do you mean you're going for for lunch with the CEO? Imagine, right my managers, like, what's going on? Like, I actually got in trouble by my manager for that this. You don't go over my head. I had that hole. And I was like, Oh. I was like, I'll get in trouble for this. Seriously? Because he was like, yes, yeah, it was worth it. It's fine as well, but something as simple as that, do it like, if you're like, if I was going into business the first time, that's one, I'll just invite all those people out and just really get to know them in as a person, as not just, you know, as a, as a parent, maybe as a, as you know, just like, relate them beyond just like the business as well. Obviously, definitely do what you said, like, learn about the business, but truly get to know them Absolutely.

Nicole Peace 39:50

Now to do that, you're gonna have to get by imposter syndrome. But I mean for me. Yeah, I've had imposter syndrome my entire career. I do. I do right now. I do right now, being on this podcast, you know, it just it's always there. And so I learned pretty early, though, that it's not going to go away. It's not like I'm going to achieve a level or level of confidence that where it will be any easier. So I just use it to keep myself humble and and make sure I'm always prepared. But other than that, you know, continue to stretch, continue to challenge and and don't let it hold you back.

Chris Rainey 40:30

You just said a couple of words. There. You feeling it because you are stretching yourself, because you are challenging yourself. So I've kind of kind of reframed it in my mind that whenever I feel like that, I try and celebrate it. So that sounds weird, like being Shane. Use the analogy of words, of sentence of seek discomfort.

Nicole Peace 40:53

So we always after working out, it's like, when you're sore afterwards, yeah,

Chris Rainey 40:58

I'm like, yes, yes. That's a great I remember my wife, when she first started going to the gym, she was complaining that she obviously now is, if you ever been in the gym for ages, you do the first gym workout, you're hurting, right? And I was like, that's amazing. And she was like, I just told you, I'm in loads of pain. I was like, that's great. And she looked at me like she didn't understand. And she looked through like I was a crazy part. I was like, oh, yeah, okay, but this is normal, and it's a sign of that you did a good workout, etc. She was like, What do you mean? Why are you saying that my pain is great, but, yeah, I think you, if you change your relationship with failure, or perceived failure, and, and, and the imposter syndrome, that's, that's, that's where, that's the magic, right there. That's, that means you're truly pushed at that like it never in those moments. Is when the most biggest breakthroughs, personally and professionally, come from it doesn't feel everyone listening, doesn't feel like it at the time. You know, it feels scary. And imagine me, right? You know, you saw we were at the event and the round table, sometimes I'm in a room like I've never done a day of HR in my entire life. Who am I to be hosting an event with 60 seats and see if you know, I mean, I imagine, like, even now, talking to you like I'm always I have in Boston do all the time, because I've never done this job I talk about every single day. I don't know what it really means. Yeah, I will never know what it truly means to do to what you do as well. So I can only kind of go based on the conversations that I have as well. So imposter syndrome, by the way, at every single level, everyone feels it, yep, just so you know that for everyone listening, I spoke to, you know, billionaires who are still insecure and have imposter syndrome, and I'm like, what? And they're like, but it's almost part of what got them where they were going, because they're

Nicole Peace 42:55

definitely right about that, yeah, because you're stressed and you're uncomfortable,

Chris Rainey 42:58

yeah, seek discomfort. Write that down as well. It's a good one. It's a good one. What are you excited about as we move forward? You're on this sort of transformational journey. Still, of course, it's never there's no end destination. It's ever evolving. Of course, yeah, what excites you most?

Nicole Peace 43:19

I think, Well, it's funny, because I was just telling someone on my team this week, like we have to celebrate every milestone, because exactly what you just mentioned, Chris, it's never going to feel done, because we're going to be a very progressive team. We're always going to have something that we feel like we should be doing and whatnot, because we have to prioritize. But I think still some of the changes we're working right now are going to sink in this year, I really do, and I'm really excited to have some of those aha moments about business partners and and how HR as a strategic function just trickles down to all elements of the business. So I think this year we're also looking at some opportunities for some significant growth, and I think some of the foundations we've been putting in will help us be more prepared for that. So I'm hoping to see some of it come together this year in a really positive way.

Chris Rainey 44:05

That's a great point important to celebrate, right? Like, there's a tendency that when things are going well, you don't notice it. Why? Because it's going well, right? You notice it when it's not going well, but when it's going well, you can always sometimes forget that there's a reason why it's going well. And we did a lot of hard work to get to x and y and where we are, and you just move on to the next thing. I'm certainly guilty of that me and Shane, we are really bad at that we need we had a conversation issue two days ago, like, gave him a call, and I was like, it's a really hard time. We've got a lot going on right now, but we're doing a really good job, and we need to let the team know that they're absolutely doing a really good job, because we can't just keep moving on to the next project, the next thing about celebrating what we achieved. Otherwise, yeah, it's not sustainable, also, either,

Nicole Peace 44:56

exactly. I mean, if you're nothing will always be perfect. So like, if you beat yourself up about that, then exactly you burnt out, you're going to be exhausted. And so it's just got to always pull back

Chris Rainey 45:08

you define, like, what good is, what good looks like, yeah, sometimes, if you don't celebrate things people don't recognize, oh, that was a good thing, yeah. And that sounds so obvious, but like, when we look back at some of our events and look at, you know, what went well, what didn't, what you know, what could we have done better? When we sometimes talk through what went well, people like, I didn't even know that that was so important to everyone and because, because, again, because it was going well. No one highlighted it. No one didn't know. So it's really important that your intention, and you can start to map that out, right, and start say again, that's how we kind of build our events, like we know this is what works, and start to constantly refine it to kind of make it better every single time. If you don't do that, you just move on to the next thing. You don't know what the where the magic was as well. Yeah, yeah. So I'm

Nicole Peace 45:57

about doing retrospectives on on when there's something didn't work, right? Something, something was a problem. But we to your point, we don't do it enough for Hey, this went really well. We won this work. We got this done there. You know. Why don't we talk? Look back at all the things that we did, right? So I'm going to take that, make sure we do that

Chris Rainey 46:18

before I let you go. Parting piece of advice for those that are going to be sitting in your seat one day, new CHRO, new CPO. And then, where can people connect with you if they want to reach out and say hi? Yeah, hello,

Nicole Peace 46:30

yeah, I'll start with that definitely on LinkedIn, please reach out. I just talked about how I've started doing that myself with other it's been really beneficial. So I will look out for any messages there. You know, I just a combination of a lot of things we've already talked about. You know, focus on the business. Don't get too bogged down in HR, specifically not saying not to learn HR, so it's, you know, but like business HR, you know, operate with confidence, operate with curiosity, and don't let perfection get in the way, you know, just, just make progress and continue to do the best you can

Chris Rainey 47:05

do. Yeah? Well, I appreciate you coming on show. I think, as you said, this is your first podcast, right? It was, yeah, do you feel like an imposter seal?

Nicole Peace 47:16

We'll see once I watch it. No,

Chris Rainey 47:18

that's the worst fear. That's the That's the worst part. Don't so as soon as you watch it, we're with such terrible critiques. So listen, I've done over 1000 episodes, and I hate my voice. Still to this day, I every time I hear the editors editing, I'm like you poor editors that you have to hear, hear me, so don't critique yourself. All right, promise me that. But you did an incredible job, and I'm really happy for you, generally, like, in the work you're doing, and and artists are artists what we're doing. And I think it's more important now more than ever, also the the soft skills, I don't like to use that Words, Power skills, the creative skills, I think, are even more in demand and more powerful now more than ever, as we technology kind of replaces a lot of the tasks and as leaders and managers as well. So hopefully you can infuse some of that incident kind of, which sounds like you already are, into kind of what you're doing. And I wish you all the best until we next week. Thanks,

Nicole Peace 48:19

Chris, you too. Thanks. Thanks for having me. You.

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