Startup to Scale-Up: The Chief People Officer’s role as a Growth Executive
In this episode of the HR Leaders Podcast, I’m joined by Lara Pyko, Chief People Officer at Mendix, to discuss the challenges of scaling a startup into an enterprise.
Lara shares how Mendix rapidly grew from a small startup to a global company, expanding headcount exponentially. She emphasizes the need to balance maintaining startup culture while implementing necessary processes and infrastructure.
For Mendix, the inflection point came when new hires outpaced tenured staff. Lara realised they needed more structured hiring, onboarding and other HR processes to support growth.
"There's a point in the company where almost every third person is new, or has been hired in the last six months. That puts a very special demand on HR."
Implementing Structure Without Stifling Culture
A startup's culture often stems from its founding entrepreneurial spirit. But structure and processes are needed to scale. Lara focused on preserving Mendix's core values while admitting some aspects of the culture would change.
"It's not about maintaining everything but maintaining what is the core. And again, that goes back to the values and how we do things."
Transparency about changes went a long way. Lara recommends collaborating with focus groups before rolling out new policies to get buy-in.
Leveraging People Data and Technology
Lara implemented performance check-ins, peer feedback and other tools to develop managers and maintain culture while scaling. Surveying key "moments that matter" in the employee journey to provide insights to enhance retention, engagement and performance.
If navigating startup to enterprise growth resonates with you, don't miss this episode.
Episode Highlights
How Mendix went from a start-up to a scale up and the challenges and opportunities that arise when transitioning
The role of the Chief People Officer plays in fostering a culture that can sustain growth as a company scales from startup to global business
How to balance the need to maintain the entrepreneurial spirit of a startup while implementing the structures and processes
Learn the 2023 Global Hiring Trends
In an age of evolving worker expectations, unpredictable economic conditions, and questions around the ever-changing future of work, talent leaders must keep their sights on attracting and hiring the people who will build and shape the future of their organizations.
🎙️ Automatically generated Podcast Transcript
Lara 0:00
decisions you make. And let's say 200k business very much differ from turning over like 10 million. I feel like you must start thinking like one if you want to become one.
Chris Rainey 0:17
Hi, everyone, welcome back to the HR leaders podcast. On today's episode, I'm joined by Lara Pyko, who's a Chief People Officer at Mendix. During episode Laura shares how Mendix went from a startup to a scale up and the challenges and opportunities that arise when transitioning. She also talks about the role of the Chief People Officer plays in fostering a culture that can sustain growth as the company scales from a startup to a global business. Lastly, she talks about how to balance the need to maintain the entrepreneurial spirit of a startup was implementing the structures and processes necessary for scaling up and managing a global enterprise. As always, before we jump into the video, make sure hit the subscribe button, turn notification bell and follow on your favourite podcast platform. With that being said, let's jump in. Laura, welcome to the show. How are you?
Lara 1:08
I'm fine. Thank you so much for having me, Chris. I'm beyond excited to be here beside all, you know, besides all the other people enthusiasts on your show,
Chris Rainey 1:18
amazing. I think every time we speak, you're in a different country. So all continents are confidential. I say where are you today?
Lara 1:26
I'm in Boston today.
Chris Rainey 1:27
Nice. Tell us a little bit more about yourself. Personally,
Lara 1:31
I'm German, I grew up there close to the OB. So normally, I spent my winter skiing and not in Boston. I just became a first time mom. So I enjoy the fun. And also the struggles of course, parenthood. Jana on a professional load, I worked in the friend HR functions, like compensation, typical business partner functions, talent development, and so on. Yeah, I worked in a lot of countries around the world like Germany, the UAE, Netherlands, Denmark, in the US, of course,
Chris Rainey 2:05
love it. Tell us a bit more about your business who may not be aware of it,
Lara 2:08
I recommend next our mission is to mobilise organisations to make better software faster. So we are used by businesses to develop mobile apps and web apps at scale.
Chris Rainey 2:20
I know you're really passionate about which is why we're kind of here today is taken an organisation from a start up to scale up. And that's a challenge that many of the leaders that listen to our show that I speak to everyday face, especially when they go from being a stature or CPO in a large organisation to then being a CPO startup is a very different challenges that are presented. So let's let's start there, you know, what are the challenges when transitioning from a start up to a scale up and then we'll then we can talk about some of the opportunities as well,
Lara 2:55
before going into, you know, what, what I learned and what I think is important, I think you need to put it up in a context, right? I mean, it's really about how people feel and how they belong. And, you know, early in the startup phase, it feels a bit like being in a family, right. And then as you grow more than might feel like a tribe. And then there's a city and, you know, and so on what acid found that we got from a village to a huge city snap. And that's also what actually happened, there's a point in the company where where almost every third person is new, or hyper has been hired in the last six months. And that puts a very special demand, I would say on the people functions was also other functions. But you really need to make sure that you get the hiring, right, that you got the onboarding, right, and so on and in coming. I mean, my previous jobs has always been more and bigger enterprises, it's a very different demand of what do you do?
Chris Rainey 3:54
what moment do you define going from start to scale up? What does that look like?
Lara 3:59
I think it's hard to put with a number, you know, like in terms of course, numbers, but I feel it's if you get to a point where where you don't know anyone anymore, when it's time to put certain processes in place, where, where it's time to structure things. And I feel if you if you look at the typical startup space, right, from an HR suite, you normally have a TA person, right, helping you with recruiting, maybe someone is finally within finance is doing a bit of the payroll. And on one point, you realise this is this is not enough anymore. So what you want to do is while you might while you while you grow right is is to make sure that you have all the structures and things in place, and I feel a lot of people using, you know, scaling and growing as a cinnamon. What is what is not the case, right? I think you need to make sure that you understand that they might exist to achieve the same goal by getting bigger, but they require a different approach and I invested a lot of time I'm in thinking about so how can we actually scale by by growing on hyperspeed? So which are the parts of the organisation on in my area of influence, which was at HR, which is really pure scaling? So where do we have to put tools and other things in place? Which scale by the company grow? And where do we actually need to invest in the growing part and adding people with new skill sets or different skill sets? Like the AI person, I'd like, what that's not scaling, that's really helping the company grow. So and that's, I feel where where we need to differentiate a lot.
Chris Rainey 5:37
Walk us through your the process that you took, like, what was the, for example, first steps,
Lara 5:43
I mean, when when I joined by, it was already nine and I didn't put yours. So you could already say to start, there was no startup. All right. So what we did is, is really trying to understand or imprinted journey. So understanding the moments that matter. So how do people perceive us? How do they? How do they go through a considering face? How do they go through a beginning phase? And what's the onboarding behind that? What's the working phase? And also what's how do people leave? Right? And what experience do we have to provide in in each journey step two, to make sure that it fits the business needs. And for us in our company in the first year, it was it was mainly focused on hiring and onboarding. And it was just the demand, right, not saying the other parts are not important. But there was a piece that we really had to get, right. If you get the onboarding journey, right. People are people are more likely to stay there, they're more productive, they were happy, they contribute better, and so on. So for us, we were app development, not for the ride. So we developed two internal apps for that. And with the help, of course, on some of the business functions, and to make sure that people have an amazing journey,
Chris Rainey 6:58
well, so you built your own online, one
Lara 7:00
of you are, the smart way to do is to use systems in the background, which scale and that comes in very handy that we are part of Siemens so you can look okay, what systems do they have? I mean, they scale 2007 years, right? Make sure that you can have them in the backbone, because if you change systems and toolings, when when it's already 1100 500 employees, it's just it gets harder to make sure that you have the base in place. And that's what we did, and then said, Okay, and what is the experience layer we can build on top and our own apps and to provide a different experience or differentiate in the experience? And that's what we did?
Chris Rainey 7:41
Yeah, you're building sort of the Mendax experience on top of
Lara 7:45
on top on top of existing, existing tooling,
Chris Rainey 7:49
which can be scaled, which is great. Looking back now, I know you're still on the journey, obviously. But what was the biggest challenges that you faced from going from startup to scale up?
Lara 8:01
Like I were down actually four things. And for me, it's really to focus on what you want to be and not not just who you are at the moment. And that becomes very tricky, right? You know, it applies to both the business decisions you're making, but also the company culture decisions you make, and let's say 200k business, very much different from turning over like 10 million, I feel you must start thinking like one if you want to become one. And that's again, what I just heard earlier, but also from a from a cultural perspective, making sure that you that you know, who you optimise things for, right. And as the company grows, it's also very likely that the company, the culture of the company, is we had these very, you know, tough conversations also, from time to time, right? That people said, like, hey, but I meant x is changing so much, and it's getting something much bigger, and suddenly their processes and you know, their frugal tools and so on. And I always wanted to work for a small startup, and also admit that that's not the case anymore. And also take people on a journey and explain why things are changing, trying to be clear on what are the things you really want to keep. And for us, it was always our values, and we put out and then why we exist, but also admitting that maybe things change and that yeah, that that comes into, like not hiring for culture fit, but maybe for for cultural add on, and that's been changed or
Chris Rainey 9:29
did your why your purpose your culture did that change, as well as as you scale?
Lara 9:34
We always had our metrics, blue values. So that's, you know, what we would be hired for how we promoted and so on. And actually we just recently launched a new culture survey, you have to check again, is that still like people to swipe for us
Chris Rainey 9:50
with any surprises? And
Lara 9:53
no, there were no big surprises and what I really liked we asked the questions what is most important to you, and what do you see most Was that match? And I was like, Okay, this, this is already a good, good start and was very much around, hey, we have fun together, we collaborate and we focus on continuous learning. So that was what, what people value the most. And, and of course, that's a good testament. Yeah. For those employees
Chris Rainey 10:17
that started with a startup, right? Very much entrepreneurial spirit, how do you maintain the sort of entrepreneurial spirit of a startup whilst implement infrastructure and processes necessary for a scale up, because you kind of don't want to lose some of the essence, because that's what got you there in the first place. But you also do need to create systems and processes in order to scale.
Lara 10:40
I don't think that that you can really maintain everything right. But maintain what what is the core. And again, that goes back to the values and on how and how we do things. But but also explaining a lot, right, like, what, why it's needed to change certain things and in our environment, right, that people push a lot more transparency, and they want to have a lot of clarity and insights. And if the more transparency, you'll give specialty on uncertain, that's HR things, also, the more consistent image should be Nephi that's always a nice way to explain it, you want to concern signals need to have consistency, right maintaining it. For us, we, you know, especially in our locations, when we're trying to, you know, make this an experience, especially in our in our photos file, for example, like in Rotterdam, where we try to maintain, let's say, the old Mendix culture,
Chris Rainey 11:36
what would you say has been the biggest challenge for you personally, going from a large organisation, to a start scale up? How has that challenged you, as a chief people officer,
Lara 11:45
I will say on so many different levels, but for me, it was like making the switch in your head and to sit in, you know, coming from a corporate environment where everything is scaled out, like how certain things and processes work, and it doesn't really matter in which country you are, but you know, how to approach things having to Mendix for me, it was kind of, you know, eye opening to say, Okay, now you have to actually put the structure in place for us. And it's a different vibe, it's different, what people are interested in, it's suddenly tech right. Me what was switching from, from energy to attack? Yeah, and and I feel for me the biggest challenges, we need to make a switch in your head, and to say, hey, in this particular role, you're not responsible to, to help anyone to transform the business for the future, but really to help structuring it and make it future ready, that actually can scale
Chris Rainey 12:38
to very different types of requirements as well. And one of the pieces of feedback I get is, I think many leaders don't realise how hands on you are with with everything. Could you kind of elaborate on that a little bit?
Lara 12:52
Absolutely. I can remember when I, when I joined there was always struggling with the HR operations and, and I honestly thought like, how, please, how hard can it be? So I spend two weeks of my time in the HR inbox right to understand what requests do people actually have? Right? Like, what is coming in? How do we answer that? And really understanding like, what is the actual problem we're trying to solve? So yes, super hands on and really digging deep into into all the, you know, like operational process driven things, I would have not done that, in my previous,
Chris Rainey 13:24
what did the team look like when you came in? Where were you in terms of establishing HR systems processes and the team around that,
Lara 13:32
when I joined, we had, we still have a very bigger ta team, right, because of the the hiring requirements. And in terms of systems, we were just about to make a switch to kill one of the old systems, which has all the data and background to a new one. So when I joined, we made a decision a few weeks after and then of course, prepared a lot for that.
Chris Rainey 13:59
That's a big first decision.
Lara 14:00
It was one of the big first decisions. Yeah, and one of my mentors and mentors, try to make sure right, that you're not making any big decisions in the first six to nine months, right when when really giving yourself the time. When I came then I realised fast paced everything I was like, this is not going to work. Like I found wait six months and just needs to be quicker. Yeah, so it was, it was challenging, but we're in a good spot. Now. I'm really proud of what the team has done. And now we can, you know, make excellence and focus on the moments that matter and because we have the base in place,
Chris Rainey 14:33
looking back now for for those HR leaders that are going to be moving perhaps to a start up or a scale up. What would you have done differently?
Lara 14:42
It's not about you, it's about the environment. That comes with a lot of things but but really focus on what is the environment you want to create and everything you implement, influences culture, each and every change you do influences culture and really That's what we, what we are doing is working a lot with with focus groups. So before we push out anything new, right, we always gather various people, different departments work with focus groups test things before they were deployed. And that would be my recommendation.
Chris Rainey 15:16
I'm sure it might be tempting for people to come in with their own predefined view of what success looks like.
Lara 15:24
Absolutely, and I had a superb period of time, like what you learned before is actually not always helping here, and it's not been helpful to the team. Yeah. And that would be probably my advice, I'd ask for constant feedback and try to make sure, especially in your first weeks, to find like two or three people in the company you trust, you can use as a sounding board to like, Hey, I have this idea. What do you think, to get immediate reaction and feedback. And that also helps, of course, to, you know, to understand the environment in the business, and the product better
Chris Rainey 15:55
is good, right? Because sometimes, like that fun will be it shows that you're open, you know, you really care about people's feedback. And it you know, it's going to help build stronger relationships with you, you know, you're not going to have all the answers. And you value people's experience that have already been there to understand the organisation more than you, as well. And I think that's a very good way of approaching it. So quick, coming in, and making changes about really understanding the challenges, both on the organisation, but also to every individual and what
Lara 16:27
I said earlier, right, like really trying to dig deep into and maybe do it yourself or shadow someone, or sit with someone, you know, from a TA standpoint or with someone on the ops team and sit with them a full day and see how their day looks like how do they approach it? And to understand, you know, how you can help them
Chris Rainey 16:46
as the company is growing and scaling? How did how did your talent strategy evolve, we did
Lara 16:51
is in terms of leadership as a trying not to give out any leadership models. And I think it's very outdated to do that, right. And trying to tell people how, you know, what they have to do or how they should behave, when we are working with is trying to make them understand of what is the environment where people are motivated and can actually thrive and trying to put mechanisms in place, which is triggering certain behaviour, to give feedback on a regular cadence, right to do check ins. So we work with an external provider coffee by Husar. And it's really true. 15 psi.
Chris Rainey 17:30
Yes, I've come across them. So I just want that. Yeah, yeah. Great.
Lara 17:33
Hi. Um, so we implemented pumpkin pie. But for me, it's, again, right? It's not about the tool. That's an amazing tool. Right? But sorry about that. But for me, it's about what behaviour does it trigger. And it triggers the right leader to behaviour in terms of thinking about constant feedback and check ins making sure that, that you know, where people stand what their priorities are, you always have a job, like, how can I help you? Right? So I can see, most of my team would say, like, Hey, I mean, I need this from you this week, right? For me, that's, that's, again, Ryan, setting the base of leadership behaviours we want to see in the company,
Chris Rainey 18:10
what's been the feedback from the leaders and the managers that are using 15. Five,
Lara 18:14
we also hear worked a lot with focus groups and rolled it out to focus groups first, and we were strike adoption rates, and you have teams who are, you know, fully using it, and, and then you have teams, we're just using certain features, and you have all the feedbacks on Hey, this is amazing. And it reminds me right to do certain things, and it reminds me and keeps myself in check. And then your people say, like, I don't need a tool, which is fine, right? It's not about I'm not asking you to, to use a tool, but I'm asking you to have certain behaviours and triggers in order to lead.
Chris Rainey 18:49
That's what I asked you to do. So curiosity, because there's a lot of platforms that are come up. And every time I have a conversation, there's a new platform or a new technology. Why did you? Why did you go down that route? And that solution,
Lara 19:02
I agree with you, the market is full of so many great ideas, right? And for us, it was important that it syncs with our current landscape, so that an integrate, so we have a Slack integration because we use Slack. And it's easy for us to to use an API to to transfer the data. So we looked into not just adding a tool, but how can we integrate it in the current landscape you're already having and and that was the best fit. And I really liked the functionalities around it because you can kind of pick and choose a bit of what makes sense for you as a person but also discuss with the team or the individuals right. So I have a conversation with all my directs like how are we using this you want to use these features or do you want to add something or and make it very personal and lots of tailored to individual needs.
Chris Rainey 19:55
Like you just said it has to be embedded in the flow of work. Yeah, exactly in order for it to be effective, what are the most utilised features?
Lara 20:05
It's definitely the check in so weekly or bi weekly check ins. So where you see like, hey, what do people prioritise? And what do we do I want to accomplish? And what we are using is best self reviews, it's kind of reflecting on where do you stand? What are your learning opportunities? What are your strengths? So peer to peer feedbacks? Nice. So we use that
Chris Rainey 20:27
a lot. Why? Why is that important to have something like that in place as you're scaling? Because it
Lara 20:31
shapes it saves continuous learning and saves, to help people grow, right? And especially if you grow in on such and such high, high pace, right? You, you also ask a lot of people because they kind of grow with them. Today, you have a team of maybe eight people. And when you later, oh my gosh, no, I read the leader of leaders, because it suddenly became plenty. So you really need to make sure that that your company, like leaders during this journey is your ask.
Chris Rainey 21:02
Because we know it's a hard job. Being a manager leader, right? And it makes it even harder. Also, when you're scaling so fast adding the complexity of hybrid. Now you've got team members at home in your office, you know, without having some type of assistant at all to help him to prompt you to nudge you. Hey, yeah, it's
Lara 21:24
nudging. Yeah. Hey, Chris,
Chris Rainey 21:25
have you checked in? And I'm still don't do a great job at that. I'll be honest, like, it's a hard thing, because you know, there's this sort of you're trying to balance that with delivering on business objectives and priorities, as well. So it's super important.
Lara 21:41
Yeah, especially when it comes to development, right? Our people, it's not about giving them a one time range training, it's about consistency, and making sure that there's constant feedback every every week, and that you check in with people on a regular basis, like how can I help? Like, what are your priorities? What are you working on? How are you sure you know, how you contribute to the company's success? It's not about giving one time effects. But but making this integrated in
Chris Rainey 22:10
your work. That was what I was going to ask you to one of my questions was, how are you using tech and data to your advantage? This is one great way, what some, what are some other ways that you're using tech and data to help you scale?
Lara 22:21
What we are doing? Is that we were measuring, are we trying to measure moments that really matter? So it's not about measuring, you know, overall engagement scores? Because I kind of missed the insights and but to understand, there are certain like, if you your first stay after 90 days, right, like you become a first time out. So how was it become ever getting back at the job? Right? Like, how was your experience? But it's also about leaving, like, how did people treat you right? Like, are you happy to stay connected? And understanding these moments? And how, being also sure on? How do we want to make people feel in these moments, and measuring them. And he started now, again, with hiring and onboarding, as one of the focus points, you know, putting service out in these moments, and next year, we're hopefully focusing on exiting
Chris Rainey 23:13
to how you capturing them and storing those moments,
Lara 23:17
we use Power BI and have dashboards. So I would say at the moment, it's pretty typical. And you know, like analysis, and but it gets like, the more data you get, right? It can come to a point where you can actually then being a bit more analytic about it and say, Hey, let's measure if someone would, you know, have a high onboarding experience, how likely are they going to stay? How fast is this person maybe to be promoted? Can we see a correlation and then you can start to do actually correlations, which is, which really, is a great way right? To help me to make this decision, but also to prove like writings amazing and outstanding, these periods really matter?
Chris Rainey 24:00
How long have you had that in place? Six months, we
Lara 24:02
now we now launched the dashboards to our first level leaders, right. So they have their, let's say, the, the data they need at their fingertips. And not like I don't know how it is in other companies. But we get a lot of these questions like when to bigger reporting ones. So we wanted to make sure that it's, you know, that they can do it right, and they can quickly check. So that's what we rolled out a few weeks back,
Chris Rainey 24:27
what are you most excited about as we move forward? On this journey?
Lara 24:32
I'm most excited about really putting what data really need in the last one two years to also to clean up and have the right data quality in place, right. Otherwise, it's garbage in garbage out. And and now we are at the point where we can actually do that. So I'm super excited to launch an app I even more data driven approach going forward.
Chris Rainey 24:54
What a crazy world we live in, went to people offices love data. We've come a long way. I know I'm in a money play and I want to play. Like, before I let you go like what would you say? Like, you know, it was shared so much already, but what would be your parting advice for HR leaders listening that are going into a startup or even a scale up? You know, what would what is some of the key takeaways?
Lara 25:17
I think it would be a bit of a summary, right? Like what I said earlier, like, focus on what you want to be not who you are, make people feel that they belong, no matter in which state you are, right? And be very clear on where you need to grow. And where you need to scale.
Chris Rainey 25:30
And I'll add one more, because you said it, have a great technology. Start from the
Lara 25:37
beginning comes in with a you know, basically on where you need to grow and scale and then the scaling piece is all Tech Tech Tech Tech.
Chris Rainey 25:45
Exactly. You know, but sometimes I see companies scale and they don't have they haven't started with a great foundation. It makes it 10 times harder
Lara 25:54
when use when you start to scale before you structure it. Yes. Yeah, exactly.
Chris Rainey 25:59
Well, listen, I appreciate you coming on the show. I know this is your first podcast, and hopefully you enjoyed it. Thank you so much for having me your first experience as well. And where can people connect with you if they want to say hi, and reach out? Where can people LinkedIn? Is there many offer Laura's Laura piko is on LinkedIn, just one.
Lara 26:18
I'm pretty confident.
Chris Rainey 26:23
That listen, I appreciate you coming on the show. For everyone listening. There'll be a link in the in the chat to connect with Laura. So make sure you go say hi and connect on LinkedIn above the average for the best. And I'll see you again soon.
Lara 26:33
Yeah, thank you, Chris. Appreciate it.
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