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In today's episode of the HR Leaders Podcast, we are joined by Karl Smith, a former military serviceman and police officer turned Lead Trainer at Mental Welfare Coach and hypnotherapist.

Karl shares his journey from the military and police force to becoming a leading figure in mental health and hypnotherapy. He discusses the impact of trauma on mental health, the limitations of traditional therapies like Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT), and the benefits of alternative methods such as hypnosis and Neuro-Linguistic Programming Therapy (NLP).

🎓 In this episode, Karl discusses:

1. How traumatic experiences impact workplace mental health

2. The limitations of traditional therapies like CBT and counseling

3. Practical techniques for managing anxiety and stress in the workplace

4. The effectiveness of alternative therapies like hypnosis and NLP for well-being

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Karl Smith 0:00

We're not in Willy Wonka. You know, the world isn't like that life isn't always great life is always going to serve you something. It's about where your pressure cooker is about making those decisions. Those people that are fault are never going to make proper decisions. Those people are harmful can get clarity that's my job is to give people that window of opportunity for clarity

Chris Rainey 0:17

Karl, Welcome to the show. How are you?

Karl Smith 0:26

Hello. I'm really well, Chris, thank you very much.

Chris Rainey 0:28

It's so strange seeing you here because I've been watching your YouTube videos for so long. And then now you're here sitting in the studio.

Karl Smith 0:36

Yeah, YouTube does make you a little bit of a superstar in your own little right. It's weird.

Chris Rainey 0:36

Yeah, I just same thing with LinkedIn. I'll go to like certain HR events and people were like, Oh, hey, Chris. I'm like, Oh, I forget that my face. Yeah, it's on video and audio or Yeah, place? Yeah, I do I have the same similar things happen into myself. But yes. So on that point, then tell everyone a little bit about your background. And what do you do and how that's led you on this path to where we are now?

Karl Smith 0:56

Yep. So I started many years ago, and I joined the military I did 12 years in the army, I went to all the places that your holiday representative definitely won't send you to. I've done all the sandy beaches. I've done all the, you know, I've done Northern Ireland. I've done a racks I've done the Bosnia is the Kosovo, you know, and hit all of those. I did 12 years and thoroughly enjoyed myself met some amazing people, some true friends in the military. And those listeners that have ever served in a uniform service know what I know what I mean by that. I left the army. I left the army on a Friday. And it was well planned. By the way. I left the army on a Friday and joined the police on a Sunday. Yeah, so I went straight into there was no decompression. No, in fact, the following week, actually, on the Monday I've actually been in Iraq on until the Monday so I got back from Iraq on the Monday left the army on a Friday, and then joined the police on the Sunday. So I hadn't even decompressed from what I'd been doing and where I'd been and yeah, I went into policing at a natural natural thing for firearms. And so I went into firearms went into like firearms teams working on like critical national infrastructure type material and protection and things like that and worked around that and you know, thoroughly enjoyed myself went up to firearms instructor level. So I went up to teach people how to use firearms, you know, getting trained by, you know, by some of the teams here in in London, and you know, Special Forces teams over inherited and stuff like that. I've had them teach me and that was really good fun. But what happened was is, is about 2006 All because the 40,006 I just finished duty and I was on my way back home, I'd been on the Rangers all day would have been teaching firearms or Dana went home. And a

I got indoors and then the next minute the front door came through and it was a drink driver or if this is going to stay to DUI. And so they drove through your My next door neighbor's front wall, our front room and kitchen and in the next doors as well put the whole lot through. Wow. Yeah. And what happened was is I was still in police mode. I was actually still in in my Nomex my my coveralls my firearm stuff and yeah, and I went out and I thought I was assisting where I live in in Suffolk, near near replaceable Cypher Cypher. Oct it was, I thought this quintessential England, I thought an old person had lost control of their car. First instincts was that's what's happened. Because the engine was so highly it was revving so high. I run out to the car and it was a young pup. And he was only 17 years old. And later on, we then found out that he'd been doing drinking drugs and he'd been at a funeral all day funny enough. And he was sent out by his older family members to go get some more some more stuff. And he'd lost control of the car and planted into ours. I naturally I went into police mode. And actually I thought he was injured I think you know, initially I didn't realise what was going on. So I went over to the, to the the driver's side and tried to get him out. And I soon realised then what I had on my hands. And then I tried to extract him from the vehicle as as best I could. And me rattling it around. And you know, using as much force as I could to get him out of the car, I actually rattled the brick wall that was holding the car up in the air. And that came down. And when that came down for some strange reason and still to this day, I do not know why but I had my hand wrapped around the seatbelt. I'd like as for leverage to try and get him out without going to graphic. I was desperately trying to get this young man out of the car as best I could. But I'd wrap my hand around the seatbelt on what happened next was as I got the car bounce backwards and I got dragged they reckon between 80 and 90 yards backwards. And the reason is is because my close was scattered all the way up and I was dragging it once fell swoop or slowly directly like No, no he was at full power. He was going for it and I was being dragged back to to the to the driver's side. I was being dragged down a country road normally it was accelerated yeah yeah yeah yeah. Oh yeah we don't even got to the best bit yet. Oh, so so he wasn't passed out like he was still game still congressmembers Yeah, it was still there and he just literally just floored it. He went, he went into flight mode he went into I'm not gonna get out of it. So I want to get him out the entire time. Yeah. And then he I popped down and on my front, I got caught by the front wheel. And that went over my legs first and that's when I knew I was really in trouble. I mean, I knew I was in trouble but I didn't realise how much trouble I was gonna be in until the next bit up and when he hit me the second time so he broke my leg on the first one and then he hits me again on the second one trying to get himself awake because he realised he was in a colder sack. So what he did is he hit me again. And then the only thing that he did nice for me that night was drop me back home and he did he literally just a tumbled underneath the car several times got caught my jacket got ripped off the protective kit that I was wearing. Because I didn't just walked in the door the protective kit that you wear as a Firearms Officer police officer, the the and I mentioned that the coveralls because a fire retardant actually made it worse that night because obviously yeah, it just kept holding me. Yeah. So yeah, so and the only other good thing that came out of it as well is that apparently my arm or my head took the number plate off and they knew who exactly it was. So they went around and raided it that night. But I came out of it with broken forearms, broken, lower legs, dislocated knees, my heel bone was snapped off. Sorry for this is a bit graphic for some people, but it gives people an idea roughly where I was. My arms were done fractured skull, fractured jaw bone, all that lot. So yeah, I came out of it that way. So the police, the police at the time, said to me, right? The police force I was in they said right we're going to send you to counselling. And I don't want to say I'm not going to be derogatory to counselling or CBT because they have a place they just weren't a place for me. And for for a lot of people listening to this as well. They might they may have been to CBT and counselling and they've worked That's brilliant, but for some people may have been to counselling and CBT and the problem is is that they haven't worked and my job is to make sure that those people understand that there are other options. And yeah, so I went to CBT and counselling counselling maybe worse and CBT sent me suicidal So, one night but both dosed up on a drug called Tramadol, pregabalin, and some other stuff that I'd been given and a bottle of Jack Daniels. I tend to take my own life in a place called Suffolk called the all well bridge which has got like a 400 foot drop, but I was that incapacitated on my own stuff that I couldn't even manage that properly. And I was found by two police officers and then they introduced me to a police officer that dealt with coaching techniques and hypnosis hypnotherapy and stuff like that and and what happened was is in that first session, with the hypnosis, the hypnotherapy side of thing, most of what's going on, by the way, in going in,

Chris Rainey 8:05

what are your thoughts going in with well,

Karl Smith 8:07

if any, if any of your if any of your listeners are from from the UK or listen to this, I'm from a place called Great Yarmouth, which is a seaside holiday resort. So my only perspective on hypnosis, I was watching stage hypnosis. So I was are not doing this. I'm not doing this. I am not going near any of this. I mean, it really was hard for me to go to counselling, it was hard for me to go to CBT because it failed

Chris Rainey 8:31

twice. Right. So you're probably thinking, yeah, yeah. Yeah, not and

Karl Smith 8:35

actually, you know, I was brought up in a in a British military that was given, you know, given a crater Largo to untold to get on with it, you know, and I've seen some atrocious stuff, you know, in my military career, and yeah, you just got that. So for me to go to counselling was a really hard thing, because it was on busted and broken, you know, and all these derogatory things went through my head that we used to say to you know, and I was one of those that used to be,

Speaker 1 9:00

you know, the main struggle was that you kind of taken away your identity. Well, yeah,

Karl Smith 9:03

it takes that strength, actually. Yeah. I actually think that being a man I had to be I had to be something else. I had to be this persona from the military to the police. Yeah, you are proper Alpha environments. Yeah. Very Alpha environments. And, and the interesting thing about that is is that is that I thought of stiff hold stiff upper lip, oh, boy, you know, stiff upper lip. Just get on with it.

Chris Rainey 9:25

I was told by my mom when I first told her about my anxiety attacks that we don't talk about that. Yeah. And that's one of the things of it. And I was like, alright, mom. Well, my mom suffered from panic attacks. Yeah. And she never told anyone and then when I had one, she was like, No, we don't tell anyone and that's for like 20 years. I didn't tell anyone. Yeah, I was told that you don't do that.

Karl Smith 9:42

Yeah, and I think I think for me, I think that I'd lost my inner strength not and why I speak about and I get to travel the world doing this now is because of my background, I'm able to really connect with with people that are in high end design. You know, those you know, I've done the military I've done that bit I've done the the, the the drive around in fast cars and all of those type of things and using firearms. Thankfully, I've no not in the UK, but I'm, you know, still been been involved in. And it's still quite apparent that especially for men, it's a sign of weakness. And I know that we hear that and there's lots of people getting on the mental health bandwagon at the moment. But I mean, I've been doing this for 1617 years now. And it's, I find it really important that if I can reach out and and speak to those people that think that that what we do, or being a therapist is actually namby pamby or something, you know, we don't do that or it's no, you know, then my job is to really educate people on that, that you can be this roughly Tufty soldier, you can be this counterterrorism Firearms Officer in body armour and, you know, working with the pinnacle

Speaker 1 10:51

of masculine although Yeah, yeah, but still be vulnerable. Yeah. And being vulnerable. And that was the hardest point that was going back to the hip of everything because I D told you to, so you go to a very Yep. What happens we'll talk us for,

Karl Smith 11:06

if I if I use the analogy, it was like somebody, I was a pressure cook, we discussed this. The other day, it's like a big pressure cooker, I see the body is a big pressure cooker, of accumulate stress factors, lots and lots of different things that go on. And my body was a pressure cooker ready to pop? What hypnosis and hypnotherapy did was allowed somebody with a skill set to grab the valve and let it go. And, and that's technically where we are with that is that that valve was able to open up and all of the pressure that had built up from seeing things that had happened, I mean, you know, things that have happened all the way through my military career, all the things that I'd seen happen during my short policing career at that time, you know, you go to incidents that weren't pleasant and stuff like that all of those things are that are built up built up built up until eventually, the car accident was actually the the, the the end point as in that was the bit where my body went, right enough is enough time, you know, enough's enough, you can't do this anymore. And that's when I went into like this shock this post trauma, this post traumatic stress for one of a better way of looking at it and my body's pressure cooker had just literally gone through the roof. And have it with the mic here is that if you imagine that we've got to let we've got a left and a right hemisphere in our brains got a left hemisphere right hemisphere, your left hemisphere deals with your logic and your right hemisphere deals with your emotions. If there is conflict between your left brain and your right brain as in your logic and emotion, your emotion will always override the people that are listening to us now will know that they've probably had an argument with a partner or a friend or business partner whoever a colleague at work and then 10 minutes later gone. But as I do that, we everybody that's watching this now knows, because what happens is is our brain goes from logical, logical, logical, with a little bit of emotion. And then all of a sudden fires over all of this emotion over there and it finds it all over the top so it goes right over overrides logic. So what happens is is that if you imagine with this simple kiddies toy, we've got left and right hemisphere. If there's conflict between the logic and the emotion, the emotion will always win saboteur in your brain in sight in the middle is component parts just behind your notes. I don't need to go into the technical elements of it. But it sits there doing this fight flight freeze, fight flight, freeze, fight, flight, freeze, fight, flight freeze, and it goes on in all of us fight we verbally fight things flight we run away from things and then we curl up as well. So we freeze. So we've got these three elements and some people would argue that there's probably four and this I keep it very simple fight flight, freeze, fight, we verbally fight or physically fight flight, we run away freeze, we curl into a ball. And we see that we see that when we're when we're going through mental health issues, business decisions and stuff like that when we've got that going on. But the long story short is as if our brains doing this fight flight freeze from the moment that we're born into the moment to you pass over to wherever you think happens next, this thing's doing this. But the thing is, is that when we have something that shocks us and goes bang, are our component parts the amygdala and all the other component parts the fire off, they do this. Now the interesting thing is, is that this should collapse. And as it collapses down, that's all we're getting is fight flight freeze, fight flight freeze. But life's not like Willy Wonka. So what happens is life isn't as great as Willy Wonka is it like just gives us things after things after things. And it just keeps going and we don't let go. So what happens is, is that, lets say problems at home parents arguing divorces, car accident, all these things. If these things all get put in there and we can't shut down, we can't shut our our amygdala down and on those parts of the component parts of the brain and we can't shut it down because it keeps getting overloaded, overloaded. What happens is this gets like this and if you notice it like that, it's expanded out. So what it means is, is that all of the very simply steroidal things the cortisone is the the stress indicators and things and proteins that get fired out when we're stressed. They're always out there always. And so what happens is, is that my job in what I do with the coaching, the hypnosis, and all of that is very direct content free, is to go in and go, we don't need that don't need that. We don't need that. We don't need that and bring it back down again. And that's exactly what I'm doing all day long, is literally just taking away those component parts where our brain sits there and thinks, I need that to protect me, I need that to preserve me. And you sometimes what were people saying, I need to keep that bit in there, because it'll keep me safe. But it's not it's actually acting against you. Because what it's doing is it's firing off chemicals that don't need to be there. And that's one of the key things there. So when I had my accident, if you imagine, I'd been through wars, I'd been through, you know, seen things that had happened in the police. Mine was like this, when I had the car, right when I had the accident, it just took it one step further, which then blew it right out, which was, you know, where we are there. And the key thing is when I did hypnosis and that coaching, which is completely different to CBT and counselling, it went don't need that don't need that don't need that fight, flight, freeze, fight, flight, freeze, fight flight freeze, instead of being in that fight mode, that flight mode, that freeze mode, and people are listening to us now, if you could probably they can probably identify where they are on that cycle. Are you fighting things continuously? Are you running away from things? Or are you curling up in a ball and just hoping it or just ignoring it? We've all been there. We've all we've all had a letter where we've gone Oh, we'll put that underneath that. And that's and that's a phrase, you know, in a run away, you know, when we look at running away in domestic scenarios, or in business scenarios, people don't want to make decisions because they don't know where they're going, or in a domestic scenario. Being a police officer, I've been many a time I've been involved. And you can see the side of it now where people inadvertently haven't domestic arguments, they jump in the car, and I've had a couple of beers, and they're over the drink drive limit, which then, you know, then exacerbates the scenario but because they wanted to get away from a certain scenario, and I'm thought quite clearly jumped into a car drove off. And that's, that's, that's some of the things they're nice things just exacerbate things they just

Chris Rainey 17:08

is, is the dominant, it's the preserve, protect,

Karl Smith 17:11

preserve, protect, to protect, yeah, our emotion, our emotional, right. And it's it came from a, from a doctor from the 18th century called MLK, and some some of your viewers may have heard every day in every way. I'm getting better and better than that's his that was him. And that's where he got it from. And he got a question. Yeah, the affirmation, you know, when people talk about self hypnosis, if you really want a cheap, cheap way of understanding what self hypnosis is, if you tells your soul something over

Chris Rainey 17:39

and over and over, you'll become it. I didn't tell you this last time. We spoke. So I have a playlist on my phone of affirmations. And I sleep with it. Right? So eight hour playlist. Yeah, gotcha of just telling me stuff. Yeah. And it's whatever I want to achieve or become always in. It's always always in a tense in the context of already having achieved it. Yeah, yeah. And I for you, I haven't done it in a while. But there was a good four or five years, when we were first building HR leaders where I played it and fell asleep. Yeah, subconscious mind is just getting absolutely yeah, hearted with it. And you can you can be overwhelmed by that I would wake up in the morning now and feel unbelievable. Yeah, yeah. Ready to go. It was one of the most challenges with my anxiety was that negative self talk of saying, I am afraid of being stuck on the underground and filled, yeah, phobic, or I am afraid of my wife going out. And it's just me and a baby. And what if I have a panic attack? Yeah. And I kind of build it off my head. Yeah. But now

Karl Smith 18:33

look at that you built it up in your head, what was doing that, logically, you're sitting there going, and if you're missing, if the partner was there, you're sitting there going, Oh, everything's fine. Soon as that kicked in your emotion overrides the logic, I know a sign even though there was nothing different, all she'd probably done is nip down to the shop for five minutes. All of a sudden, what happens if the if they if the little and puts her finger in the electric socket, I'm gonna get a chainsaw out of the shed, because that's how that's how we work, we over over complicate it and then all of a sudden, it then gets bigger and bigger in our own heads. And that's one of the key things. I mean, some people might be on here that are thinking, you know, you're simplifying it, but actually, I am simplifying it because obviously, that simplification is what you know, it means a therapist and me who sits there dealing with people, they need to understand that they can be fixed. Some people think that when they go to a therapist, and they go, let's say 2030 times I've had that this week where people have been there 2030 times. And, and they and they go I'm still not right. I can't be fixed. I'm broken. That's enough for me. So negative. Look at that, bang straight away. If there's conflict between emotion in the intellect, the emotional always

Chris Rainey 19:41

really, really conscious of last couple of years as my self talk has been one of the biggest factors in me controlling it getting better, like yeah, just like I catch myself in it now. Yeah, say and I'll stop halfway and go. Nope. Yeah.

Karl Smith 19:55

It's one of those things that I spend all my data and people say to me I'd like to learn self hypnosis. And genuinely that's technically what it is, what you're doing is, is you're giving yourself powerful affirmations of great things and negative things. And my job is to take people that have taught themselves really bad things. That's what people do they teach themselves really

Chris Rainey 20:17

wonder the groundbreaking moments for me is when I realised that your subconscious mind doesn't know the difference between reality, it doesn't know the difference between whether it's real or are you just thinking it? It perceives it the same way and that wait a minute, so I can, for example, I, my, one of my things I did as a kid, I always say I'm great at everything. Yeah. And my friends, like, Oh, you're really good at older sports, Chris. And they're like, and I can, and I convinced myself that I was really good every single sport. And guess what I picked up the sport is really, really fast. But on the flip side, my teacher and my mom told me when I when I was a kid, I had learning difficulties. And I had trouble reading. Yeah, I took me a very long time to learn how to read. Yeah, exactly. Anytime someone say I say I have reading difficulties,

Karl Smith 20:59

and I got that as well. And I got you know, when I mean I'm 49 now and like sick. Now dyslexic. Sorry, a dyslexia? Sorry, I

Chris Rainey 21:05

heard them say that. Yeah. I'm dyslexic. So that was my excuse, can't

Karl Smith 21:10

you just reinforce it, reinforce it. And that's half the problem today with labels. What happens is, is that doctors are no disrespect to doctors, they will give a label because they need to do something to see if they can give something to see if that helps. Which I understand that. By the same token, the label reinforces sometimes the behaviour Yeah, so he's one for you. And we talk about reality. Close your eyes for a moment. Just put your hand out in front of you. Okay, tip up so it's so it's up facing palm up to the sky. And anyone who's listening can do this as well. I want you to imagine now only just imagine now that I've just put a huge, huge spider in the middle your hand. Just imagine a massive spider. Close your hand. And just imagine that spider now been in your hand. I want you to bring that big spider that huge spider up to your face now. And just imagine now letting that spider go near your face. Three to one, just open your eyes. How did you feel about that? Because your body was telling me something. Your foot was twitching Your face was going I don't want this here. Because that was it. Yeah, yeah. And if anyone's doing that, that's where we're talking about the reality where where your subconscious can't tell the difference between reality and imagination. Because what happened just Denise is that your fight flight freeze mechanism kicked in, because I say put your hand like that. Close your eyes. Imagine something. Bumps. We're already doing it now. There's a spider in your hand, bring it up to your face and let the spider go near your face. You watch what happens and I'm sure if those people you know if people are listening to this, and let us know. But I bet no, there's some people cringing behind this watching this now going and he's talking about spider. There's no spider. There was never a spider. There is no spider here.

Chris Rainey 22:53

I get with like the anxiety. Right? Like because I kind of have anxiety about anxiety. That makes sense. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you can pound in it. Yeah, exactly. So when I think of the fact that when one of the examples when I was stuck on the underground Yeah. Got stuck in the tunnel for an hour. Yeah. full blown panic attacks. Yeah. On the packed out train. Yeah. Every time I step onto a train now my heart's like,

Karl Smith 23:14

we shouldn't do.

Chris Rainey 23:18

Should it shouldn't do now. And it definitely actually did get on the train after we did that. We did. I don't know what you describe what you did to me. You did her hypnosis. But I mean, it wasn't planned. It was.

Karl Smith 23:26

It was more conversational type stuff. And yeah, but I

Chris Rainey 23:29

photograph I was fine. But it's interesting that even though I know I'm fine. Like other times, I felt like it was happening.

Karl Smith 23:37

You're having to teach yourself like riding a bike again, that is no longer there. Funnily enough, I just had somebody. I was working with somebody who they were scared of heights, and they went up on this ladder on a big oil tanker. I think it was something like that. And they said, I could only get halfway up, and I had to point out, but you still got halfway up, it was half way more than what you've ever done before. So what did you just do the other half? So they phoned me up, they

Chris Rainey 23:57

probably laughed about it. Yeah, I did the rest. So they phoned me up, they

Karl Smith 24:00

phoned me up just voice the text me just before we came on it and they were like, I've done the other half. It's about learning, it's about your brain going good

after as well. Like, it's like, the more I read, the more I was avoiding it, the bigger it becomes an issue you get pounds. Whereas if I was like, where am I now? For 10 years, I went on the train every single day. Yeah. And now one moment is now being the one that defines if there's

conflict between the emotion and the intellect the emotional always when Yeah, it will always push I came

Chris Rainey 24:28

across you for some of the I literally, I remember like YouTube, you know, looking for some techniques to help with my anxiety and so many videos that you do post some really practical stuff. Could you share some of the techniques? I think I remember the one I was doing last was the indices. You know, the one that where you got to know the bilateral stimulation. Yeah, so that the thing is just any of them that you think it's gonna help it could help them

Karl Smith 24:51

I think I think the one with the bilateral stimulation is is very easy. I didn't think about this one before we came on. It was my wallet. Sorry, I'm very sorry. No, it's fine. So So the key thing is, is that a lot of you a lot of your viewers may have heard of a thing called EMDR eye movement desensitisation resolution. And it's built on the fact that your left and right hemispheres your left and right ms logic emotion, what it does do is it draws a line between the easiest way to stop a panic attack is grab some don't use your mobile because somebody dropped their mobile last week use something like this, put it out like this. And what you want to be doing is bringing your arms out to peripheral vision. So I can just for those people who can see me, I can just see my wallet just here. And that's my peripheral vision. Okay, so my, my, my vision is just that, what you can do is just don't move your head and move your eyes. And then repeat auto suggestion. And all you're going to do is just do this, this is a very simple technique, hold something like that and just go like this and go, the anxiety is gone, the anxiety is gone, the anxiety is gone, the anxiety is gone, the anxiety is gone. What you do is you just keep doing this, keep your head still just move your eyes, what your eyes are doing going across. Now there's two things that you'll notice. Either you're gonna get bored or listening to your own voice or you change the tonality. That's what's what you're looking for is that tonality change. That's what I like looking for a mic,

Chris Rainey 26:05

but what's happening in our head, what's happening,

Karl Smith 26:07

the emotions overwritten it. So what's happened is the emotions overridden. All we're doing is bringing the logic back online. That's all I'm doing by bringing the eyes less distracting. And then the auto suggestion or the self hypnosis is the anxiety is gone, the anxiety is gone. The other one is well as a you might be interested in doing this, right if I if I did this when I did that,

Chris Rainey 26:28

by the way for everyone listening like I was feeling anxious, like literally did it and I did that and it did help. Yeah. And it kind of reminded me because one of my techniques is when I feel anxious is I do anything to distract me from it. Yeah. So if I'm feel like I'm a panic attack, I'll play a little game on my phone. Yeah, I play Tetris. Alright, so my wife if that's the secret, fantastic. She's more likely to go. You feel a little bit anxious. Yeah, just by playing Tetris. Tetris. It sounds so silly. But it was for me. It's a compliment. It's a coping mechanism of hey, Tetris. And by the end of the Tetris game, I'm fine. Yeah, it's a silly thing. But it's something like, again, it's distracting. Yeah, exactly.

Karl Smith 26:59

But you're not actually clearing the problem up, you just distract you go. So and the other one that I'd like that it's very easy to do is that whether you believe in, this is going to be contentious and of interest. Now this one comes out whether you believe in meridians or not, nobody's ever found a meridian, but in the same token, energy lines within the body, there's some that I don't even know what that is. So they're in the body, the Chinese you know, acupuncture. So you've got acupuncture in the in there, you've got meridians go through your body energy lines for one of a better word. And the Chinese came up with that 10s of 1000s of years ago, the idea is, is that in your body, there are there are superhighways of energy that get round and your chi or web can get blocked. Now acupuncture is a way of doing that is needling and getting that energy to move back on. Again, there's more expert qualified people that can talk about that. But the one that I use is an acupressure technique, which means that you're just using pressure. And one of those pressure points for those for those people that are watching. This just there is the karate chop whatever it is, and this is a very simple one that you can do. But what you do is you get your you get your hands, and all you're doing is just doing this. And what it does do as well is it brings the right side of the body and the left side of the body back online. So what it means is if I'm tapping away like this, nope, I'm not affecting the microphone. But the long story short is, is I'm tapping away, firm enough that I can feel it but not firm enough to give myself a bruise. And the idea is, is that I'm sitting there just doing this. Now the key thing about this is it for those viewers that are watching this, do this, just tap away. And then what I want you to do is affirm something with it, I want you to affirm it, like I feel good, I feel great, I feel powerful, I feel good, I feel great, I feel powerful, I feel good, I feel good. Even if you don't, I want you to play the game, I want you to just do that. For me, it's just do this, I feel good, I feel great, I feel powerful. Because if you're not, if you can't do this, you're doing it the other way you're going down the plug hole, if that makes sense. You're telling yourself negative, you're telling yourself negative things. So let's start bringing that bringing that back up by going I can do this I will do this I can do this I will do this I can do this. I will do this at a speed that's good for you. I can do this. I will do this swap hands. I can do this. I will do this. I can do this. Now I want you to do it quickly because I just want to demonstrate to the people on what the experience awarded so let's have a little bit harder what it is and it can do this and we'll do this I can do this or will do this and then swap hands. Okay. And a lot of people believe that is energy in your hands right? And there's a lot of energy in your in your body. Put your hands out in front of you. With your fingertip feel like warm there's a warm day feel tingly? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not pretty the vibration that there is there is there are potentially these highways that go through there. Now I work with people who go there's no such thing as a meridian now get work with people that are staunchly with that so what my job is not to sit here and argue whether it does or does not exist my

Chris Rainey 29:41

Believe it or think of it like you think is almost like there's a there's another quote there's a belief

Karl Smith 29:45

and expectation is what we're looking at. Do you believe it and do you expect something to happen and that is exactly what therapy is. If you go into into you go into a counselling or a CBT or a coaching or hypnotherapy session, and you don't believe You've not just in the technique but the person delivering it, then nothing's going to happen. And then once you've got the belief and expectation, your job thereafter is expect something to happen. And that's where I feel that some therapeutic interventions don't because some people sit there going, yeah, no. Yeah, no, no. Yeah, they walk out and nothing's happened. Yeah. Whereas when I do something, it's more, there's more theatre. And there's more, you know, something's going to happen.

Chris Rainey 30:28

What are you actually doing, though? Because I think there's a lot of scepticism around Yeah, therapy. You see the TV shows you see Darren Brown. Yeah, that's probably what the average person's perception is. Yeah.

Karl Smith 30:40

Is that right? Yeah. And it's, it's, especially with the hypnosis hypnotherapy. And especially with the way that I work is about education. And this comes back to the Carl that was from Great Yarmouth. That's why I told that story. Because that was what my belief and expectation was. My belief was that you're going to make me act like an idiot and your expectation, my expectation is, I'm going to come out of there being a fool. That was where I was. But my job and I really do with my when I'm when I'm teaching hypnosis and doing things is to really get in amongst it and educate people. Sometimes we have to change what what we're calling it because some organisations don't like calling it hypnosis. We call it meditation or mindfulness to companies. It's almost like a rebrand. Yeah, you have to Yeah, because sometimes they get a little bit sketchy about mental health, right, that even even companies struggle with just a word mental health, stigma attached. Err, right? So yeah,

Chris Rainey 31:30

yeah, we have different ways of,

Karl Smith 31:31

and another thing as well as it, and it's not the company's fault, and it's not industry fault, but they are they, they, they just look at counselling and CBT, not coaching, emotional coaching, like what I do, and they don't do the hypnosis and hypnotherapy, which are really powerful impact on certain individuals, because like I said, CBT, and counselling weren't for me. But because mainstream business go, Well, that's what everyone else is doing, they stay on that format, which means that their employees are off work longer, it means they're out there, you know, they may even leave the job and stuff like that. Because of that. I mean, I work with lots of emergency services, more emergency services, and I do military. And I have to say the police, ammo and fire have systems in place. But those systems are the same systems. And the reason they're not working is because they're not compatible with the individual. People seem to think, Oh, you've got mental health issue, we'll get you counselling, one size fits all. It doesn't work like that. So my job is to go around and educate people on a plethora of ideas. And going I go into, you know, places and I show them how I, you know, there's this technique that I technique and then you the person takes it away, not just the organisation, but the person takes away the idea of yeah, we'll adopt that. Because that that seems not too far down the rabbit hole type thing people

Chris Rainey 32:53

seeing there when they see the video where you like, people describe as putting someone under Yeah, what's happened in there, like, like, because most people don't really use it. Most people are exposed to the theatrical side of it as opposed to the well being.

Karl Smith 33:08

I think, I think the key thing to that people need to understand that hypnosis goes on all day long. I would strongly argue that people are in a state of hypnosis, my job is to take them out of it. Because suggestibility is one of the high things about hypnosis, me giving a suggestion, and then it works. Well, that can hypnosis, not state violence. So let's, for instance, I'll be working away with somebody, somebody could see this as trance, because I'm keeping somebody focused on keeping somebody focused for that amount of time. And there's picking up suggestions and ideas and thought processes using their imagination. This can be classed as hypnosis, it doesn't have to use

Chris Rainey 33:45

immediate. That's all it does. Every single day, the fear mongering, yeah,

Karl Smith 33:49

and then wash it. And this is why, you know, if if suggestive work didn't didn't work. Why do we have bright packaging? Why do we have why do they spend millions and millions of pounds on suggestive things like that when if he I firmly believe that we're always in hypnosis, my job is to stop the hypnosis, and then make those tweaks and it's not me making the tweaks by the way. I'm very keen on I want to get this across. My job as a therapist is not to make the changes the client, you have the answers. My job is to get you to extract it the right way. You have all the answers. You talk about domestically, we're talking about private earlier on about a fret about people, you know, that may have things that are going on at home or at work or wherever it's going on. It's not necessarily what they've got to do is make a full a formal decision on where they're going and believe do they need to stay in this relationship and is this job but I never left the place because it was I never left the police in some ways because I didn't like the job. Being on firearms. I was never out in the street doing that I was doing all the firearm stuff all the all the all the protein bars and all that that was you know, isn't it During all the firearms stuff, it was brilliant. But I never left out because of, of the policing and the firearms because I loved that bit. I left it because I'm an individual, but I look back now, you know, I left it because of somebody was making my life miserable. And and I didn't deal with a time and my choice was I'm gonna get out of this. And my life developed. You know, I remember that first day that I left the police poor and penniless. Technically, I was like literally like, I'm thought this through I thought I was going to walk through it I'm sure that other people have done that before is that Sri, I walk into work or go do something, it didn't quite happen that way. So I can find a way through. But you know, there's choices. And that's one of the key things that I like opening up to people when I'm teaching teaching them as well is that if you are in a relationship that stagnant or is or is is detrimental to your health, you have to make a decision to do that yourself. I can't do that. I can just give you options and things like that. But when you're in those scenarios, you don't see that you don't see it yourself business. Those people that are business people here, sometimes they so cocooned on their own little planet there that they don't see that they can if they just stepped out for a moment, and

Chris Rainey 36:11

helps that my coach Chester like he He's helped me have those realisations. You just can't see it when you're in it. No, you can't. And that is he's external. You can be like, Yeah, and I'm like what

Karl Smith 36:20

I spend, that's all I spend my life doing that with people that's all I do. I sit there, you know, in sometimes just subtle. one liners, you see people's heads just go just see this like little marble go dink thing.

Chris Rainey 36:36

And that's where it is when like because I've had friends that for example have done Hypno hypnotherapy to give up smoking. Yep. Is so are you planning something in their heads to stop smoking? Or are you helping them just read convinced themselves or consciously that I am not a smoker therefore they don't get smoking? Like what happens?

Karl Smith 36:54

So let's go back on that I always have a thing about the issues never the issue. Like somebody presented today they've got insomnia. The insomnia is not the problem is what's causing the insomnia. That's the problem. The insomnia let's say is the is the waiver is it the bit that sitting over a gun Hello, there's something wrong, when actually there's something wrong in the background. And the key thing about that is that my job is to go in and then change that. So why do people start smoking? I would strongly suggest that people that are watching this or ever smoked before it's because you do when you're younger you start and you never find anyone that's 50 years old start smoking well you you might have but you never find anyone at 50 that goes I'm gonna start smoking is normally at a younger age. And what happens then is that people want to be part of a group a clan, the social side of the social part and you normally find it and at work and those bosses aren't those

Chris Rainey 37:44

guys outside for the smoking break. Yeah, that's the social smoking break. See coming

Karl Smith 37:48

out for Yeah, come on in. Yeah. And then what happens is, is that they build this little community coming downstairs and then sometimes that causes problems because people are you're hanging out with a boss again, I like they certainly make calls animosity, you know, things like those have animosity

Chris Rainey 38:01

that I never got that break. And no ego. Yeah, I remember saying to my boss, I was like, so my team members go for for 15 minutes smoking breaks a day. That's an hour they get. Yeah, because they smoke of your arms. I don't get that. And I'm healthy. And I'm looking after myself. Yeah. It didn't go well. I mean, it's like, go back to what I remember. Just be like, Wait, this doesn't make sense. Yeah.

Karl Smith 38:24

Let's go back to onto that smoking side of things is that what happens is is a young age, they start smoking, and then they stay in that clan, then the clan disposes, and then they join other little clients their little journey on the way through, and then it just becomes a repetitive thing. And stopping smoking is very easy to stop to get somebody to stop smoking is very, very easy.

Chris Rainey 38:44

And I'll give you the redraws and what kind of stuff

Karl Smith 38:47

Yeah, that doesn't take long. Doing it the right way doesn't take long. Really? Yeah, fears and phobias are normally looking at around 15 to 20 minutes, but that does client dependent. Post trauma, you're normally looking at probably maybe one to two hours of working with a client a break, really because I look at it differently. Because I'm somebody who's been through it, I look at it as the pressure cooker. So let's go back to the pressure cooker analogy. The pressure cooker is like that. And it's full, when it's full, you cannot make when the emotion and the logic are in conflict. You cannot make informed decisions when your pressure cooker is filled. My job as a therapist is to make that pressure cooker go see drop some of the pressure and leave a vacuum, then drop some more pressure and then take if I can get that that down to halfway let's say take away some of it. You're not going to get all of it rid of it in one session or two sessions because they've got to coach themselves through their own life. But if I can drop that pressure cooker down by half, it gives them a better space to make more informed decisions. Instead of like I said a minute ago for those people that go out to have an argument with their partner. They've had a they've had a skin full of booze, they've had a you know some alcohol. They've probably taken some anti depressants or whatever it is, that's not going to make them coherent while they're driving, they end up get caught Drink, drink with a DUI or drunk or on drugs in a motor vehicle. And then what happens, then it just makes the whole scenario even worse. And then the whole thing gets. So my job the way that I look at therapy, and I've been doing this, the way that I do it, is, I look at it, and I explain it that way that my job is to drop that pressure cooker down enough so you can make better informed decisions. Because let's put it this way, and I said at the very beginning, we're not in Willy Wonka. You know, the world isn't like that life isn't always great. Life is always going to serve you something. It's about where your pressure cooker is. And about making those decisions. Those people at fault are never going to make proper decisions. Those people are harmful, can get clarity. That's my job is to give people that window of opportunity for clarity.

Chris Rainey 40:52

Calm before I let you go. What was one thing I haven't asked you which I should have gone? I'm asking you what's one thing I didn't ask you that we should have spoke about that we didn't? Like we're missing something that anything that you wanted to share that we haven't spoken about? You think it's really important for our listeners?

Karl Smith 41:08

Do I think there's anything? Yeah, I can't remember Debussy?

Chris Rainey 41:11

No, I'm just saying in general, because I've watched so many videos of Oh, right.

Karl Smith 41:15

I think just in general.

Chris Rainey 41:18

I'm just saying like you've said so many great things. I just want to say is there anything that I wanted to share that we haven't spoken about? You think really

Karl Smith 41:24

Yeah, the reason that I'm on the path I'm and I'm not with the CBT and counselling on that is because when I was in a dark place, when I was in that place of I, I needed to end my life because I felt I was a burden to my family, I felt I was a burden to my children. I felt that life wasn't gonna give me anything else. I'd done the CBT. And I've done the counselling, no disrespect to the CBT and the counsellors out there. But I'd done those. And I didn't know there was other options. There are options. And irrespective of what your train of thought and people's trains of thought are here, there are other options, hypnosis, spiritual Reiki, know some people were going like that. Ooh, go near Reiki, I don't know supposed to go near Reiki. But that's not my back. But it doesn't mean it's not somebody else's. Because if their belief and expectations, they believe it, and then that's the thing. That's the thing. We've got caught in this thing of CBT, counselling CBT and counselling. And that's it. And many businesses do it, they send them off to CBT. And it's never gonna work, because it's not the modality believe it. Yeah, so my job is to go in and educate people of other things. Because when I then I never when I was in a bad place, and I was thinking to take my life. I never thought even thought once about hypnosis, I never thought once about neuro neuro linguistic programme, I never thought once about energy work, I never thought once about tapping. And my job is to show those people that are at those depths, there is other things. And if you are out there at this present moment in time, and there's something going on, and you've been through the mainstream. Don't be scared to look at other avenues. Even if you think they're really far, far out. Even if you think they're really fine. Never would

Chris Rainey 43:06

have came across. If it sounds weird if YouTube never served that up. Yeah. I just said what are some techniques to help me cope with anxiety and your video was here a free techniques? Yeah. One was that one was this. One of a third one was I can't remember what it was now. There was another one and now they're looking

Karl Smith 43:19

up. Yes. Physiologically. Yes. So physiologically. So let me just finish that. And then I'll just finish it off with a wrap up. He's, he said, If you have been through therapeutic rinser, and you don't think that there's something else out there, there is there is and if you're scared about it, or you're worried about your colleagues are saying about it, they're not friends, they're not proper colleagues, you know, because when I started doing hypnosis like they were doing hypnosis, is that any other? Yeah, because it works. And my job is to capture those people that have been through the CBT in a counselling, no disrespect to those people. But it hasn't worked for them. My job is to then teach them of the other avenues they can go. So that's my final thought on that. The last technique that I just want to hand out to people as well as is that physiologically, we're sitting down at the moment, you can't be depressed. Don't forget anxieties about the future. Depression is about the past. So you can't be depressed if what was one of the first physiological things that we do when we get depressed about something? We bow our heads we curl into a ball. Yeah, so that's depression. If you look up and look up and tried to feel depressed, you can't do it. If you physiologically bend over if you lean forward and do this, your body will curl up and start to go into that depressive state. There's a lot more behind this but however, I'm just trying to squeeze it into this. If you find yourself feeling bad or feeling negative, go outside do something and look up in the air for for a moment just look up and then tried to find that negativity. You weren't able to find it. Physiologically your body won't let you do it. Interesting.

Chris Rainey 44:53

Yeah, that was the third one in there that was on Yeah, and video chain does that I did. I did those three techniques. So, in my office at home, and it worked again, also, it doesn't have to cost you a lot of money either. He's very simple, easy to do took me five minutes. Yeah. And then I did all three. And then I was like, I need to message this guy and get on the show.

Karl Smith 45:16

Things as well share this of our audience that seems as well that you can do. And in the office, anyone? Nobody needs to No, no, no, no, if he was looking at that, and if you're tapping away, if you're you don't have to do that. You could just drop your hand. You don't have to tap, you can just rub. So if you're sad, if you're still at a bus shelter, and something's going on just right behind like that, and just swap over. And you can say the affirmation in your head that because it's all in your head anyway. Yeah, it's all in your head. I've

Chris Rainey 45:41

done that I've been in a place out in public. And I've just said them in, you know, yeah, out loud in my head. And this helped me yeah, I've done it. I've done it. Where can people check you out? And if they want to reach out, there's so many organisations, you know, as you know, obviously, it's called HR leaders podcast. Yeah. Many of the leaders we work with, they're all looking after the well being of their employees, if they want to reach out to us, I suppose.

Karl Smith 46:01

So Mental Welfare coach a is the best place to get me and I'm sure you put the details underneath here. But Mental Welfare coaches where I do predominantly a lot of my work and my hypnosis side of another world, that's hypnosis, but in the same token, people punch my name, they're going to find a lot of hypnosis. But on the same token, the Mental Welfare coach is predominately where I work with, with businesses and like the the foreign Commonwealth Office, all those type of things there. So yeah, Mental Welfare coaches is recovering. But yeah,

Chris Rainey 46:26

thanks. We'll be below wherever you're listening or watching or whatever platform you're on. Also, I think you're on LinkedIn as well. So yeah, LinkedIn, yeah, you on LinkedIn,

Karl Smith 46:33

I'll give you the link for that if

Chris Rainey 46:34

you want. Carfax so much appreciate personally, even just for the few things, few moments that I've absorbed your content. And I thought it was really important to have you in the studio and to introduce you to our audience. Yes. They're looking after the well being of millions of employees all over the world. And even if we can reach a couple of people today, it'd be worth of our time, I would have never guessed this is going out and predominant on LinkedIn, isn't it? Yeah, LinkedIn, YouTube everywhere, right?

Karl Smith 47:00

I would, I would, I would have any guess, right? That somebody has just had a mobile moment in their head while listening to this. They've gone. Oh, just that I'm not the only one. Or I'm, I can do something else. Or just that, that that, that they're in the power of doing just this and telling my story. And letting people know it all right. You know, dinner, they go reach out and go do something and it's completely All right. And it doesn't matter what environment you are b alpha state, whatever. But on the same token, somebody right now is just at a moment and gone. Alright, we're

Chris Rainey 47:36

going to do something about this. Yeah, that's what it's all about, man. Appreciate you coming on.

Karl Smith 47:39

Thank you very much.

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