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In today's episode of the HR Leaders Podcast, we are joined by Floor van Griensven, Chief People Officer at Trivium Packaging.

Floor shares her extensive journey in HR, detailing her rise to leadership and the significant impact of her diverse experiences across various roles and countries. She emphasizes the importance of resilience, continuous learning, and balancing professional and personal life in fostering a high-performance culture.

🎓 In this episode, Floor discusses:

1. How to gain end-to-end HR experience through diverse roles

2. The critical role of resilience and flexibility in HR leadership

3. Practical strategies for balancing career and personal life

4. The value of empathy and understanding in global HR operations

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Floor van Griensven 0:00

I am indeed open about it not only to my family, but also to my boss to my team, when you are a woman and working on this level, it's one thing, right? You always have less time than your male colleagues. It's a given. It's even proven in all the in all the research. So time is of the essence. Everyone needs to be sacrifices when you're working on this level, although I will try to be there as much as I can. I am definitely not always there. And I missed some highlights.

Chris Rainey 0:34

Floor, welcome to the show. How are you? Thank you. I'm fine. Happy to be here. Nice to see you again. Before we jump in, tell everyone a little bit more about yourself personally, and the journey to where we are now. In the current organisation.

Floor van Griensven 0:48

Yes, yes, I will do so. So my name is Flora flora, Finn's fan, I'm 47 years of age and almost half of my life. So about 24 years, I'm working in HR, because that's my true passion. I have a passion for people, for organisations. And yeah, for giving colour to it for making it for making it better.

So I've worked for three employers in the past, I saw started in a law firm, where I really learned that the details matter rooking, hearts, contracting, negotiations, etc. So that was a very, very good learning school after my, my law, law degree. And then, as I did labour law, I got insights in many, many big corporates. And that gives you such valuable insights where you would like to work, but you would not like to work, how they treat their their people. And then I joined Hannukah after that law firm, and that's where I stayed 17 years. Yeah, yeah, I never expected to work somewhere for 70 years, to be honest. But it's a great employer. And they gave me so many opportunities. I did about seven or eight jobs. They're all on HR, as mentioned. And I made a sort of sports out of it to jump from HR specialist jobs, to HR operational jobs, to really gain the end to end HR experience. And I've worked in global roles. I've worked in production in the breweries. I've worked in different countries in the Netherlands, in Germany, but also in, in Africa. And in Africa, I learned what our true resilience is. So I got many angles in HR. And it was my dream to become end to end, responsible for HR myself, just overall. And that's why two and a half years ago, I joined Trivium. And that's where I am Chief People Officer, in this moment of time for two and a half years now.

Chris Rainey 3:03

Amazing. Tell us tell us a little bit more about the company.

Floor van Griensven 3:08

Yeah, Trivium is a metal packaging company. It's a global company, we have about 60 locations, road rides, and about seven and a half 1000 employees. In revenue, it's about 3.3 billion. So it's a good and fast changing company. And we really want to wow the world with our metal packaging their products. And we have all kinds of big, big customers. So you we make for example, metal packaging cans for paints and coatings, we make cans for for food, we make cans for seafood, we make cans for baby powder, and that in a sustainable way, because metal has the advantage that it is recyclability. So it's a you can recycle it forever. So it's our aim to become the global, the leading metal packaging company in the world. And we're working very hard on that. So it's a great, it's a great company

Chris Rainey 4:17

to do all the HR stuff for amazing. So most of us have probably used your product and just had no idea.

Floor van Griensven 4:24

Exactly, because the name Trivium is not on the products actually. So but if you eat seafood or the tuna or the tomatoes in cans, many of them are produced by Trivium.

Chris Rainey 4:36

Amazing. I love your lead up to your background because one of the themes over the last eight years and we're doing this show, if people asked me, What do I look at when you speak to CEOs or CEOs have been most successful? One of the traits that I see across them is exactly what you described is that they've worked across multiple functions, not just We've been HR but multiple business units in the company like you mentioned yourself. The second trait is that they've worked globally across cultures and continents to be exposed to different cultures and that experience, both living in the business in different functions sales supply chain in our product, like you said, as well as the role across a specialist areas of HR, we have that global experience creates the experience that they need to be a great CPO. So was that something you can relate to? Absolutely,

Floor van Griensven 5:39

absolutely. I fully agree with that. Because if you have done the specialist roles, you have all the tools in your backpack to really quickly take out. And on the other hand, if you have been in the operational roles, you really know how to implement it fast. If you have been in global roles, you know more about the strategy and how to define a strategy and how to roll it out. So when this all comes together, then you can move so quickly. And that's exactly what you meet the need to make a difference. And that's what the business likes, right? If you really can combine your HR skills resonating into the business, then you can move, move fast, and that's key.

Chris Rainey 6:23

Yeah. Was you intentional about that? Or was that just how your career planned out? Was that something you are conscious of what we do? Would you say that that is something you look back and are thankful that it did it sort of planned itself that way? If that makes sense?

Floor van Griensven 6:40

That's a good question. Actually, I never thought about it that way. In a way it went, naturally, I am very curious. So I will want to know how things work. And then I dive into it. So it didn't surprise me that I start in specialist roles, for example. But and I really also enjoy execution on the other hand, so that I did that first, before I went to bigger roles, more strategic, less hands on, so to speak, in a way it was a natural way how it went. And it also followed my interest and what I was passionate about in that moment in time in that moment in time of my life.

Chris Rainey 7:23

Yeah, so the growth mindset mentality led you on those different journeys naturally, because you know, you have a desire to learn, grow, develop, challenge yourself. Yeah,

Floor van Griensven 7:36

definitely. And early on. And I also don't think it's a coincidence, right? Because I'm not sure if coincidence really exists. So you also, you do it with a certain purpose, a certain certain drive. And in the end, if you really know something, and therefore what you're doing, then you want to continue, and then you grow further, further, further. So at least this is how it went in, in my case, but everyone is different, I can also really resonate with people who are too specialists and who want to stay within their specialist zone, I'm very happy that not everyone is like me, and always, you know, wants to wants to move forward. So you need all the kinds of types. What advice

Chris Rainey 8:18

or what advice would you give the younger HR leaders now about how they reflect and plan their career journey. Moving forward, you know, looking back having gone on this journey.

Floor van Griensven 8:32

First, I really believe you need to do the role that you really don't really have a passion for because HR is intense, and you absorb a lot. It's not only hard work, but all the the things that you get on your plate from the business, it's intense to absorb so so you need to really like what you're doing. I think that sounds like an open door. But that is key. And then secondly, I really recommend to really do specialist and operational roles and do global roles. And do do national, your own country roles. Because you get the end to end view. And that really makes you that you can operate with with speed. So that's what I really recommend. And in the past when I when I was younger and I know I sound like a grandma now but when I when I was an operations and I had these global people telling me what to do in global HR, but what never been an operations before. I was like, Oh my God, you know, they really don't know how HR in practice looks like. And then it's so much harder to take that from someone. It's the same as your labour lawyer. You only do cases from your desk, but you have never had a termination and exit in conversation and you'll never dismiss someone. Right? These are two totally different things that require totally different skills, but if you combine them then you can really do a top of the bill. And that's what I recommend to everyone. So this will be my two main recommendations for for young people who are starting an HR career. How

Chris Rainey 10:14

did you balance that workload whilst still making time to upskill and rescale? yourself. But that seems to be a common challenge, because the pace of change is so quick, and so fast. And that's something that so many HR leaders struggle with. Now more than ever,

Floor van Griensven 10:35

yes, you need to keep up with what is going on. And the HR activities are evolving, right? I mean, again, it's going fast. So the whole well being topics, the topics, the flexible working topics, these these are more newer topics from the last, let's say, five years or something before that they didn't take such, all the compliance regulations that are coming to us. And they are, its slowest to absorb for HR. So you need to remain on top of the game. So and how do I how do I do that? That's That's indeed a challenge. Besides CPO, an HR professional and a colleague, and being truly in love with my work and what I do, I'm also a mum of four. So I have four children, that I also want to be around for, obviously, I'm also a parent, I'm also married. So finding the time for yourself. And for your development and for your own needs. That's that's not not easy, but you need to do it. So you need to block time, your your agenda. And these are simple things. But what I do on a weekly basis on my agenda, I look at all my appointments on one day, and I call a call to them. And I know I sound like a strict strict path now, what I call a call them, like what gives me energy, and what drains my energy. Since I do that, my life has changed. It's a simple tool, but it works for me. Because I need to be a balance between things that you need to do, but maybe drain your energy, but also things that really bring your energy and for me, and that's how I get to answer your question. Growing and fulfilling my my curiosity and learning grow is necessary. So it brings me energy, and I need to build in time for that. And then I don't have time to follow really long courses, it's I think it's also the time that my patients doesn't. But watching podcasts or reading a book, talking to other HR professionals in your in your network, going to other companies and see how they do things. Inviting a specialist into your HR town halls or HR meetings. This is how I learned it's more of a bite sized learning that I do now, instead of the really big courses, which are also like that, which is harder to build in into your schedule. Right?

Chris Rainey 13:18

Well, things that you said in the last conversation, which I think is really important for people to hear is that you're also very open in your communication to the family, that when you have particular rollouts or implementations that you communicate that, hey, I'm gonna be pretty busy in these periods and, and you're just very open about that as a family and discuss that. Can you can you elaborate a little bit more on that?

Floor van Griensven 13:41

Yeah, of course, I am indeed open about it, not only to my family, but also to my boss, to my team. So when you're a woman on this and working on this level, it's one thing right you always have less time than your male colleagues. It's a given it's even proven in all the in all the research so time is of the is of the essence. And you also need to bring sacrifices everyone needs to be sacrifices when you're working on this level. But I think that females who have a family always have more is not that the guilt around that not everyone I hope and of course also meal have that, but it's difficult to balance. So you have to bring sacrifices so although I will really try to be there as much as I can. I am definitely not always there. And I missed some some highlights. So what I always do is checking in with the family. You know, is this still rocking is still working for you. How are you doing or but I tell them when I'm in very busy periods or when I'm launching something or in the middle of A project that they know that I'm off balance, so they know I have less, less time. But it's on purpose it is it is for a reason, right. And I share that with them. And that's what we discussed last time. And I think they're, they're, you know, this, this resonated with, with so many others. I mentioned, when you're off balance on purpose, then communicate that you know, to others so that they're know what's what's what's happening. But if you're off balance, and it's not on purpose, that is also a sign on a watch out. So then you need to take a deeper look into why I'm off balance and what's going on and sure that you'll fix it. Yeah,

Chris Rainey 15:44

that was one of the main takeaways from our last conversation that really stuck with me. And I think I'm going to be more conscious of that moving forward. Like I love that analogy of being off balance. But to your point, are you off balanced by choice? Are you off? Are you or are you just off balance, which is obviously then is a concern. So now, and it's very easy to move from one to the other, without even realising. And I think it's not even realised until it's too late. And then to communicate that to your friends and family and say, Hey, I'm going to be off balance. It's my choice. And and just but just communicate that I think that's really one of the big takeaways from my last conversation, I think everyone listening right now can learn.

Floor van Griensven 16:34

And then they cannot sort of keep an eye on that you don't even only keep an eye on yourself, but that they also can keep an eye. So that they and that's, I think, also the healthy thinking, right? Balancing, balancing career and private. Your private life puts everything in perspective. I mean, like, at times my care, couldn't, couldn't care less that I'm in a project or things that just need you. Right. So that's also, I think, a healthy way to keep on putting things in perspective. And that is, it's just as important.

Chris Rainey 17:12

Yeah. You mentioned some of the sacrifices that you've had to make, but what would you say has been the biggest challenge you've had to overcome in your career?

Floor van Griensven 17:23

Yeah, the biggest the biggest challenge. So definitely, I have brought sacrifices. Like I said, there were important moments that I could not that I could not be there for the family on the highlights, which can be like, you know, great graduations for swimming or for other activities that you see all the moms there. But also thing that they go and pick up from my school trip or whatever, that I'm not there, or when they have appointments in a hospital that I cannot be there. And I really try and try to be there as much as possible. But it's not always. It's not always the case. I also want to say and that's what what we did. My husband is a great support. So but also helped I met I'm married to a German who's extremely structured. So that's, that helps a lot. And who's really there for the kids always. So that doesn't always make my absence, valid or better. That's not what I'm saying. But they always have the debt, you know, to turn to you. And that's, that's, that's, that's very important to me, that they're in good hands.

Chris Rainey 18:43

Yeah. It's interesting that whenever I asked that question, it's never work related. So I asked people, you know, what are the biggest challenges you face in your career? They never mentioned something at work is always the personal challenges. So it's interesting way that I asked you, what are the biggest challenges, you're facing your career and you're actually Hey, it's nothing to do with actually, the job itself is actually the impact of on my personal life. I just think that's quite interesting. Because you could have said, Oh, it's a challenge with this particular project or this thing, but it's, I never get the answer. It's always the unintended consequences, or sacrifices that have to be made. And I think there's there's a lot to be to be learned from that.

Floor van Griensven 19:31

Yeah, so it's indeed it's family, its friends related. So not always being able to join to join the getaways with friends. I'm often the one who needs to cancel. Because especially in such a global role, right, there's always something go numb, especially when when you're when you're always or also when you have a business role or don't get me wrong, but our job is all about people and there's always something going on.

Chris Rainey 19:59

Yeah. You mentioned earlier very quickly, that when you worked in Africa, you understood the true meaning of resilience. What do you mean by that?

Floor van Griensven 20:11

Yeah, when I was in Africa, and this was with my previous employer, by the, by the way, they are very big in in Congo, in the, in the Democratic Republic of Congo. And Congo was is the second largest country of Africa. And it has everything to be one of the richest country of Africa, because they have so many minerals and things in the, in the ground, and, but due to all kinds of circumstances, then one of the poorest countries in Africa. So there, I was working with the HR team to transform the business on people and capabilities on the operating model, etc. Implementing all kinds of it, and hrs systems. But before people were able to come to the office and get to work, they already had, you know, many circles behind them, making sure they had food on the table, making sure that they six family members were taken care of. And then they were coming. And of course, I wanted to run in my regular pace there all the project because I really wanted to help them. But before you could start to work, you really need to have the empathy, right to really dive into what is going on in their lives and how you can do that and make sure they had enough foot, you know, to start the day. So people in Congo, the ones that I met, and the ones that I have been working very intensely together with for three years. They have difficult living circumstances, extremely difficult living circumstances. And despite that, they're always positive. Always, I mean, like, they have such a positive nature, they're always supporting others. And that that was extremely, extremely helpful to see and to experience that from so close. Because often, obviously, you see it in the news that is true to poverty. And people send me in lines for for food. But if you see this in, in real time, especially when you're there with your young kids, yourself, I mean, this comes in, and this affects you and changes you at least me and my family for the rest of our lives. This experience in Congo brought my kids more, I believe, and taught more valuable lessons than I could ever teach them. And this has been extremely important working with these different cultures. So yeah, true resilience, I will say and also requires when you implement things there, it always goes different than you planned for in the beginning. So you need to have not only a plan A, but also be also see. So you become so flexible, and creative by finding solutions, that this all builds your resilience. I mean, like before that I could be quite nervous, you know, for a go life. Now, since I've been there, I know I've been there, I've seen it all. They don't drive me crazy anymore. So

Chris Rainey 23:46

that helps gives you a different view on life. Right?

Floor van Griensven 23:49

Like totally different fuel.

Chris Rainey 23:53

Obviously didn't grow up in that environment. But I had quite a tough upbringing, who were very poor. And that actually became one of my strengths when I came into business because when people were struggling, I had a different level of resilience. Because I was I was we really struggled so I was like, this is easy, and not not easy, but I mean, when I when I look at you know where I am, I'm like, Oh, I'm I'm grateful for it because before I didn't have food sometimes or electricity or you know, or clothes even. So it just builds it creates a different level of resilience that is a real superpower that you can you can take with you and when you are in tough times like you just said you can you can move through that.

Floor van Griensven 24:44

Definitely. It's nice how you said it. I truly believe that resilience is a superpower. So if you experienced this from from so closely, this will help you in the rest of your of your lives. And you We're also way better in dealing with change, because you've been there. And where many people first need to go through the change curve. I think we all know our tribes, and you have all these different stages of the, of the Kubler Ross curve, as we call it in, in HR, people who had a very, like, you were difficult upbringing or you, you you have difficult circumstances taiko through the curve much faster. And that

Chris Rainey 25:26

helps. Yeah, it's a muscle that you build, right. And some of us will regard. And that's something that HR leaders are very good at, whether it's, you know, COVID, or whatever, it's a war, or a political crisis. They're all different challenges, but the same muscle is now engaged, of how we work through all of those things. And now, in many ways, kind of that whenever those crisises come to surface, the business looks towards HR, right? For help, which is actually really interesting. When you think about it, right? They're like looking, what do we do about AI? You know, there's always, it's interesting to see how HR has evolved to be that. I don't want to say the crisis management team, but as as, like the level of respect and strategic advisor that is risen to, that the business can look towards to help the organisation and the people.

Floor van Griensven 26:26

And this is great, and also in quite a fast period of time that the HR function evolved like this, because I remember and when I graduated in labour law, and that I wanted to do HR people were like, there were only two people, you know, who wanted to do that. So I was like, you know, why you dislike Yeah, as such, you know, a soft profession. And so this was totally different. And now, it's what you say whenever there's a crisis or when, when as soon as they look at at HR for the first time, so the the function evolves, and we need to evolve along. Yeah,

Chris Rainey 27:04

if you can't, if you if you can't evolve, and you don't like change, you can't work in HR. Definitely. Yeah. Floor before the

Floor van Griensven 27:14

flexibility, the resilience. Being an off day, if you need that,

Chris Rainey 27:19

yeah, floor before I let you go, I want to ask you some quickfire questions. Right? So I'm going to ask you like five or six questions, but you only have 30 seconds to answer each question. 30 seconds. That's it. Okay. So tell me what what are your hobbies and passions outside the office?

Floor van Griensven 27:38

My hobbies and passions is running, is reading. And it's, it's wining dining with friends. Nice.

Chris Rainey 27:46

Love it. If you could click your fingers and change one thing about HR, what would you change?

Floor van Griensven 27:55

The speed still gone faster?

Chris Rainey 27:59

That's a good answer. How would your kids describe what you do for a living?

Floor van Griensven 28:05

That's a very funny one. They describe she does something with my mom does something with people. And that's how far it gets.

Chris Rainey 28:16

And she's very, very busy. Thanks, exactly. What legacy Do you want to leave behind for your kids?

Floor van Griensven 28:26

That's also how only have 30. So very deep question.

Chris Rainey 28:28

Oh, no, sorry. That's a tough one.

Floor van Griensven 28:35

That whatever they are going to do, that they're happy that they're doing something that they are liking and that they're good human beings, supporting others, and they don't forget to smile every day. Oh,

Chris Rainey 28:55

I love that. That was great for 40 seconds. Have you ever considered quitting HR? Never. Leave that one then. What would you say is the biggest investment you've made in yourself?

Floor van Griensven 29:13

Financially, it has been coaching and of course at INSEAD. And my biggest investment, it's more like things that I didn't do. So that's my biggest investment saying and what is still on my bucket list and that will be my biggest investment. So I'm going to do that. And I want to do before I'm turning 50. So if I say it down the podcast, you know, I really need to do it. It's it's a retreat in in Thailand with monks as well. To really go in your into yourself. Take the silence, take the rest, and go there and, and reflect. So that's that's something that I really would like to do when I'm looking forward

Chris Rainey 30:00

to, you've projected it into the universe now. So now it's gonna, it's gonna increase you can join. Yeah, definitely. There's no There's a lot of people that impact our careers along the journey, both in the office and at home, right. But who do you say is the one person your life has had the biggest impact on your career?

Floor van Griensven 30:28

Two persons privately my dad, we had a very big impact on my career, by starting the law career. And also make sure that you have the social aspect and do something good for other people. It is something that he taught me from, you know, whenever I was young. And then secondly, one of the blue remember managers that I used to work with who had a very big impact on my career. And who taught me to be more bold, say immediately what you want or what you don't want, but in a positive way, I mean, so he also was very important for my career, and really go into this HR operations thing, because he said, You are made for it, which I knew when I didn't know myself yet, we should

Chris Rainey 31:23

give him a shout out. What's his name?

Floor van Griensven 31:27

It's called Fred Mayer. And, unfortunately, he passed away. Oh, that's, yeah, he was a very important person in my career. Amazing.

Chris Rainey 31:36

And I think appointed you just to highlight or you just said there is sometimes they people see things in us before we see ourselves. And I love that. I love that you mentioned that because that happens so much. Those people that see stuff in us that we can't see in ourselves are very important.

Floor van Griensven 31:56

Definitely. And they helped me both so much in my career. So I find it important that I also give that back. Right. So I think that's something that we should you. So I'm trying to do that.

Chris Rainey 32:09

Last question. What's one piece of advice that you give to those HR leaders, leaders of tomorrow, build

Floor van Griensven 32:19

resilience, never give up. And be clear in what you want and what you don't want. But always remain your your yourself and authentic? Because many times as HR at the table, you have a different opinion than the rest.

Chris Rainey 32:42

Yeah, it's important to speak up, right?

Floor van Griensven 32:45

You need to use your voice and not give up.

Chris Rainey 32:48

Yeah, we'll follow up. I appreciate you coming on the show. It means a lot. And I know you said to me when we first ever met, you don't do things like this much. And I'm so happy that you did that. Because there's so many people that are listening right now that needs to hear what you've just shared with everyone. So I just want to say thank you for you for taking the time to join us and being vulnerable and sharing to help others. And I wish you and the team all the best until next week. Thanks so much. Thanks

Floor van Griensven 33:17

a lot for you will for forgiving me this this opportunity. And I'm glad I did it.

Chris Rainey 33:24

I'm glad the first one went well. See you later. Thank you. Bye bye. See you later.

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