How AI is Transforming Workforce Strategies in 2025
In this episode, we sit down with Laurent Aufils, Chief People Officer at Orange Business, to discuss how HR leaders can play a strategic role in business transformation, why engagement is critical for success, and how AI is shaping the future of HR.
Laurent shares his journey from finance to HR, the importance of aligning HR with business objectives, and how data-driven decision-making can drive workforce planning, talent retention, and leadership development.
🎓 In this episode, Laurent discusses:
Why HR must align with business strategy to drive transformation
How to engage employees during periods of organizational change
Why leadership development is key to long-term business success
The shift from traditional HR processes to data-driven talent management
The role of AI in shaping the future of workforce planning and decision-making
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Laurent Aufils 0:00
I learned that when I was doing mergers and acquisitions, there was this old McKinsey study, the difference between a successful merger and failure in a merger is actually the employee engagement. So it's something that I kept in mind, and I'm using, you know, on a regular basis, as well as in human resources, because you know our one of our main function is really to ensure that there is a employee engagement that we build when you feel like you are not only here to make your customer happy, but you are here to make your employees, your fellow employees, your colleague happy. It just like generates a complete different mindset and a completely different culture.
Chris Rainey 1:00
Laura, welcome to the show. How are you, my friend.
Laurent Aufils 1:02
I'm very good. Thank you. Thank you for having me in the show. Where are
Chris Rainey 1:06
you joining us from today,
Laurent Aufils 1:09
based in Paris, and I am just in the outskirts of Paris, New next to the stadium where the Olympic Games took place this summer. How was that
Chris Rainey 1:18
that? Was that last been pretty intense? Was it, like, crazy busy where you are?
Laurent Aufils 1:22
Yeah, that was crazy busy, but it was just a moment out of time in Paris. For people who know Paris, you feel like it was a different city during the developing games. It was just like, joyful, and people were happy, you know, smiling, and there were people from, you know, different parts of the world. And it was, No, it was really great. I really enjoyed my summer in terms this year, you know, because the Olympic Games was just, you know, special event, I think, one, one of the time lifetime event, you know, like, you can, you can have,
Chris Rainey 1:53
I know how you feel. When we had the London Olympics, it was the same. There was something in the air. Yes, felt different, like, you know? And you have this sort of convergence of cultures all in one place, right? And it feels like a real moment. It's hard to put words to. Did you manage to see any, any of the any activity, any the sports or athletic? Yeah,
Laurent Aufils 2:17
I got lucky enough to attend you know, a few of the, you know a few of the events. So I did the Paralympics. I attended two events for the Paralympics in the stadium here. So it was good, because it was just a, not even a five minute walk, and I see the long, long jump and, you know, and it was really just amazing. And, you know, the atmosphere in the stadium, and when you feel like, you know, you just have goose bumps, you know, like, you know, every two minutes, yeah, because it's so, you know, it's so impressive. And, and I did attend as well the pitch Foley in, in the center of Paris. And here, to be honest, it was like the, the setup was, like, just amazing, because everywhere you are looking around, you could see, like, the, you know, the the monuments of Paris. So it was, it was just a, you know, a great, great time, yeah, amazing, great events
Chris Rainey 3:21
before we go further further. Like you have quite a unique background and unconventional journey, like many of our guests, to where we are now, but especially, I feel like you have an interesting one. Could you share one your background and how you ended up in HR as two people? Officer orange business,
Laurent Aufils 3:39
yeah, it looks like I didn't take, really, the, you know, the straight line you know, to go from, you know, to become, you know, Chief People Officer for anti business, but I'm sure you finance person, you know. And I studied finance and business administration France and in the States, and I started to work in finance, in the mergers and acquisitions field, back in the times of the internet bubble, where, you know, everything was, you know, money was free, everybody was investing in, you know, internet companies. It was exactly what we have today, where, you know, the buzz word was not AI, but it was internet at that time. So work on, you know, on different deals back in the States and then in Europe, and then join, you know, telco and network company at that time in the m&a, you know, mergers and acquisition field, and worked on on one deal, which was one of the major deals back at that time, which was the merger between France Telecom B to B operations and the global and E quant, you know, operations. To the operation. So it's, that's quite interesting. And that's when, actually, I jumped in on the into the other side of the mergers and acquisition field, which is the implementation of the merger, and worked on, you know, like merging teams, you know, reducing the, you know, number of sites reviewing the organization, you know, model, you know, working on, on, you know, how, what would be the future of this, you know, newly funded company. So that's when I started to work with HR, you know, because HR was definitely a key contributor to this, to this project, and I actually was asked to join HR to implement something that was in Between finance and HR, which was the workforce planning and, you know, basically the compounds the compensation and benefits, slash, you know, head count. You know, management at group level, for for, for the company, for the newly joined, you know, newly formed company. So
Chris Rainey 6:19
what was your initial reaction to that? Wait a minute, you want me to work in HR, what was your what was your initial reaction to that? I
Laurent Aufils 6:29
was like, I was at a point in my career where I actually had the opportunity to, you know, to continue in the m&a, but pure m&a field, joining a bank and, you know, like this kind of things. And I saw it as a little bit as a, as a bet, as you know, I have nothing to you know, it's, it's risky, but I have nothing to lose. So why not, you know, why not doing it? You know, why not joining? But I really, you know, I was really the, basically, the finance person in HR. That's, that's really how I joined HR in the beginning. And it was quite, you know, quite interesting, because HR and finance didn't talk to each other. It was like, really two different tools. And I was like, the, you know, the in between the, you know, the person was
Chris Rainey 7:25
the one stopping their budgets. Yeah, exactly. I was, like,
Laurent Aufils 7:32
I had the rules, you know, to be sometimes saying no to a lot of people in terms of budget. But as well as saying yes. So it was quite interesting. And that was my first, first time, you know, joining HR, and then I went back into transformational roles, which had quite a major impact on resources. You know, it was, for instance, revamping and completely reinventing the innovation team of orange at that time. And it was, you know, I needed both the finance background and the HR background to run this transformational project. And, you know, it was definitely a great experience. So I've been going between HR from that time onwards, I've been moving between HR roles at corporate level for Orange group, or, you know more, at operational level and transformation major, transformation projects led for the group, and that's how I actually joined orange business as the chief transformation officer, and managed to identify Basically what we need to do to move from, you know, connectivity business to tech company. And since 2022 I am, I have a chance and the opportunity to be the, you know, implementing that in terms of HR, because I'm back in the human resources field, and I'm heading the, you know, HR, human resources and employee experience. It's something that I it's very dear to my heart, human resources and employee experience for Orange business. So, you know, it's pure HR role, but with a lot of transformation involved, it's
Chris Rainey 9:34
so interesting, because HR is transformation, right? So it makes, and I've seen recently a couple of Chief transformation and people officers starting to appear on LinkedIn, in many companies, actually, which sort of surprised me. But, I mean, not surprised me I saw it. But like I just said, it makes, can make sense when you think about what HR is in the. What we're doing. It's transformation. Is transformation and change. So requires the same skills
Laurent Aufils 10:05
Exactly. And it's, it's a very different role from, you know, the traditional nature, like, you know, role as some people still perceive it, which is a shame, but which is not at all reality anymore, which is like, you know, executing the decisions that have been made by others
Chris Rainey 10:25
now, order takers, right? You know, as opposed to leading the transformation, yeah. And now
Laurent Aufils 10:30
it's completely different, because that's something that is, you know, it's part of my DNA, but it's part of my strong convictions that HR needs to be at the decision table and needs to be part of defining the strategy, defining, you know, where we want to go. Because if you don't involve HR, you know, you can have the best projects in the world, but they are just not, you know, just can't happen if the, you know, if the human factor is not taking drug,
Chris Rainey 10:59
yeah, I have to ask this question, because I wouldn't rare. I will never get the opportunity to ask someone else for all those HR leaders trying to get their budget signed off by finance, given your background, what's the main things that they should be focusing on? What's your best advice for HR leaders about how they get their budget signed off by finance? Because you were on the other side. You've lived on both sides, very rare
Laurent Aufils 11:24
of that, yeah, I've been on both sides. First is to build a relationship between nature and finance. That's, I think that's quite important. So take your head of finance for a coffee, or it's always good. It can always be helpful. And not only because you have to negotiate for the budget. And then I, you know, one of the tricks, or one of the, actually, one of the key elements to really convince is to have what I call a business case mindset, saying, Okay, if you want that, you know, we need to invest this amount in, you know, in terms of resources, in terms of training, in terms of whatever. But basically, if you don't, then don't expect that you will be able to deliver this. You know, this results. So it's, it's really a give and take type of discussion, and most of the time it's also, you know, the more you can anticipate, the better it is, because you don't like the HR part is not something that you can change. And you know, in, you know, in a matter of a quarter. So you need to have a long term vision as well and be able to share with the finance counterpart what this long term vision is and how we can work together to achieve the results.
Chris Rainey 12:43
Nice. What would you say quickly is like the biggest mistake you normally see HR make when, when trying to get a budget approved?
Laurent Aufils 12:53
Well, the the, biggest mistake I see is really, when people, and you know, are not, are not really, you know, prepared, you know, bringing figures saying, Okay, it's like this. Because, you know, we have always done it like this. So, you know, it just like, you know, the Excel trend line type of things like, and if you have, if you don't have, like, you know, like ability, if you are not able to convince on why it's important, then of course, the finance will always have the last four, you know, saying, hey, you know, I love it. Okay, it's minus 10% because everybody else is minus 10% so HR will be minus 10% you know? So that's that, yeah, yeah. I
Chris Rainey 13:46
appreciate you sharing that. Super interesting now naturally, I'm sure you, given your background, you have very much a data driven approach to HR. And of course, we can't have a conversation right now without talking about data gen of AI for HR. Where are you seeing the biggest potential for AI in the HR function?
Laurent Aufils 14:09
Yeah, I'm definitely a figures person, you know, like, I like numbers. I like to see KPIs. I like to see these kind of things, because it's, it's definitely the key metrics to to drive and to make decisions. And, yeah, so data, I think, is something where HR is a bit behind. The HR function is a bit behind. We have a huge opportunity with Gen AI, because Gen AI uses data, and we need this data as well, you know, for a lot of the you know, and can bring a lot of added value for the HR function. And, you know, we can talk about training. We can talk about, you know, administrative tasks. You know, processes, hiring, recruitment, you know, talent management. You know, there, there is, like. It's, you know, it's a very vast level of opportunities for around AI, generative AI for HR, but I see, as well, generative AI as a huge, huge element to add value for the human resources function. Because it really questions the processes the future, how we see the future of the company, you know, how we deal with the skills, and it's, you know, it's something that is, you know, key in terms of the long term vision for the company, where HR is at the center of this, you know, what I call the balance between short term and long term. So I see generative AI as a great opportunity for the human resources function to be at the table of, you know, the strategy and the decision makers, the executive committees and so on, so on, to bring value, to bring the right questions, saying, okay, you know, this can be easily replaced by generative AI, or can be automatized, or can be, you know. So where do we see the value that we want to bring? Where do we see the, you know, the the differentiation that we want to bring to the business? So, you know, I That's how I see the opportunity for human the human resources function, to also have a different, you know, position, yeah, as part of the organization.
Chris Rainey 16:32
Where are you on the journey? Because at the moment, obviously, it's like we're being inundated with solutions. And to your point, it forces us to assess every single part of and every single processes and how we did everything right, because we can, you mentioned so many of the areas and use cases. So how are you approaching, what is your strategy, in terms of, where do we start, and where and where are you on that journey?
Laurent Aufils 17:03
You know, the good thing and the bad things with generative AI is that it's very puzzling. You can see that there are a lot of opportunities, yeah, but at the same time, you can't do everything, so you have to, kind to have a segmented approach. I think there are a lot of things that can be, it's not hrs business to deal with. Can be, you know, dealt by, you know, partners, by companies who are really, you know, into, you know, this, this field of expertise. So prioritizing, where the value will be for human resources in terms of, you know, using generative AI in some of the processes is absolutely picky. So it means that, for instance, for Orange business, we see that, you know, there is value in, you know, spending more time on the recruitment process by interviewing in, interviewing candidates in, you know, discussing, seeing the culture fit with the, you know, with the company, how we can, you know, how they can these candidates can integrate in the teams, how they can also share, potentially, the DNA of The company, and there are a lot of administrative tasks which are not bringing that much value. So, you know, that's, that's the type of things where we see, okay, this. There are things that we can do by ourselves, but there are things that we will outsource. Because, you know, there are some companies that are specialized, will, will, you know, provide great help and great value to our process.
Chris Rainey 18:39
Yeah, that's a good example of that one. Yeah.
Laurent Aufils 18:42
Another example is on the skills. You know, we see that, you know, generative AI can be, let's say, the new, you know, training company, or the new trainers of the company. And, you know, we can have access to gigantic you know, level of resources, you know, through generative AI, you can, you know, have tailor made training for for the employees, depending on where they are, depending on, you know, their background, and so on, so on, however, you know, have having access to this is great, but if you don't direct the employees towards the skills that are really necessary, they're bringing value. You might be spending a lot, which will not be completely useful for the company. So that's where I as well. We have, you know, we are using generative AI, and we are like, working on some, you know, proof of concept on, you know, using generative AI to as well, help in the carrier pass some of the employees to bring them to the destination that we would like. You know. One of the company needs in the in the future, yeah. So where do we stand to answer your questions, I think we're late, but I think everybody's late.
Chris Rainey 20:10
No one, no one thought it'd be this fast. Yeah,
Laurent Aufils 20:14
but, but we are lucky enough because we started, you know, about 18 months ago to work on some proof of concept on some, you know, we started to play with it. And there are a lot of things that we are going to have and done because it's, you know, it's, it's great, but, you know, there is better value on the market, on some of the, some of these tools, or some of the this proof of concept. However, there are some aspects that are absolutely key, and that are now completely, you know, integrated in our HR processes, and we see and we have the direct feedback from the HR teams and from the business that we serve about the value that it brings To them, the fact that people are not like wasting so much time, even though, when they were doing it, they didn't perceive it as time wasted. But now they are really concentrating and focusing on the on the value added. You know, activities. It's true for training. For instance, we are like experiencing a huge shift in our in our markets, from like, traditional connectivity, you know, skills to more like tech skills and cloud cyber security and cloud cyber security every day it evolves every day you need to 100 new Yeah, we need to bring new skills And, you know, so we are like, we are working definitely on this with generative AI, and people are starting to see as well, the benefits that they can get out of this, and not anymore, the kind of fear that they had before, about hey, you know, it's going to replace my job as HR, because it means that, you know, Gen AI can replace what I do, and it's not the case. Or, you know, Gen AI will make people, you know, will make people lazy, because they will have, you know, Gen AI doing their job for them. So, you know, so that's, that's a great change in the mindset as well, and we see that it takes time. It's like, like any, you know, change management process. You need to accept that it will take time. But it picks up really fast, because people start seeing as well the benefits of Gen AI in their day to day life. It's a little bit like the mobile phone or the Internet back, you know, like 20 years ago, when you know, companies were starting to use it, and it's started to really pick up, when you know, people started to use it as well on the personal aspects,
Chris Rainey 22:53
yeah, like, I feel like any of these key moments like we mentioned throughout this call is less about the technology and More about the human and the cultural and the transformation, right? And change, that's the hard part. Like the technology is already here. It's advancing every single day, but people don't advance and move as quickly as the technology, right? If you've been doing a certain thing a certain way for a certain amount of time, that's not going to change overnight, right? So that's something we have to it's a, it's an ongoing process. You know, this is not a one month program, a six month program, because it's constantly evolving, right? Changes, changes is continuous as well. So it's, it's, how are you seeing that with your own team, though? Have you already started investing in terms of the skills and competencies required within your own HR team to help support and lead this change, because that your function changes just as fast as everyone else. Is this out there as well, right? Yeah,
Laurent Aufils 23:51
and sometimes I even say that we should change faster than the other because we should be ahead of time, yeah, and it's, and it's, it's not easy. So, yeah, we are, you know, like everyone is going through, you know, training, you know, training on Gen AI, we have internal tool that we are using, which is called Live intelligence, but it's also available for, you know, external companies. It's one of the products that we sell, that is, you know, basically an internal, you know, Gen AI tool, chat, GPT or whatever tool. And we have, like, different models and use cases that people can that have been developed, that people can use, for instance, to generate, you know, job desk, or to generate job offers, or to, you know, like, you know, organize, you know, a few, a few things for, you know, for the teams. So it's, it's by training, but it's also by practicing. It's by doing. And. And we have more and more in use cases that are being that are being live, for instance, on the skills part I mentioned already, but also on the on the recruitment processes and and we see that there is quite a lot of support requested by the business by the different functions towards the Human Resources team. On, how can we help them, you know, how can we help them prioritize? How can we help them train the teams. How can we help them as well, you know, like identifying where the value is in terms of people skills and how the human factor is absolutely key in all that. So because, again, tool is there, it's like the human brain, you know, we use 20% on average, of our brain capabilities, you know, and it's like Gen AI. We also have to accept that we will might be using, you know, very little of it, but at least it's by sorting and by integrating it as part of our day to day life that we will be learning and it will, it will grow, and we also see the limitations, you know, like we, you know, we talk a lot about the limitations of Gen AI, we also have a strong training around ethics and how you know what it means in terms of the risk around Gen AI, the fact that it's algorithm, and algorithm just reproduce the past. So, you know, you have risks in terms of diversity. You have risks in terms of, you know, you know, bias that it can generate. So, you know, all that is very important, because, again, I think it's part of the education, and it's not only for the company, but it's also, you know, for the day to day life.
Chris Rainey 26:57
I'm assuming, as you're also offering similar solutions. I mean, AI solutions I mean, AI solutions to your customers as well, that you already have an AI governance or an AI Council established, yeah, business, yes,
Laurent Aufils 27:10
yes. And it's, it's important, and I insisted that HR is part of this governance, because it's not only for the skills part of for you know, the ethics, or for you know, like people were saying as well, you know, at the beginning, where you know, we need to find limitation. And you know, all the basically, when things don't go well, you know what, what measures HR will be able to take, you know, against the employees who are misusing and I said it okay, you know, that's part of the game, but it's also part of how you motivate people, and how you make sure that you see it as an opportunity more than as a risk. And you have to have some kind of balanced approach, because if you are only, you know, like presenting it as a constraint or as as a risk, yeah. But it's, I think, the the normal human, you know, reaction to something that is new and not really controlled, not really, you know, mastered. So, you know, it's like, how it limitations. And yes, this limitations might be important, but again,
Chris Rainey 28:24
it's by doing that, though you remove trust and you also stifle innovation. And you know, people don't have the psychological safety to then play, right? Like you said, you made a playground with your tool internally, people say, you know, if so, you can't lead with that, you can't punish the many for the few that may misuse Exactly, right? So you can't, you can't be led through that lens. It's where, where HR can add value to the conversation, not clean up the mess. That shouldn't be the the reason to have you in the room any point and the employee experience point of view, right? So, so like you mentioned earlier, all of this impacts employee experience. So that's a really important part that, how do we make sure that, whilst rolling out AI, that we also make sure that there's always the human in the loop, and that we don't and we and we have the focus on employee experience. If that makes
Laurent Aufils 29:16
sense, it's, it's, it's, it's exactly, you know the point. It's like, you know, you you have to take into account the human factor, the employee experience. If you make it you know, cumbersome and interviews to use, then you know, like, people will just like, find all the ways you know. It's the human nature to find other ways you know, to to deal with it. It's, you know, it's, you know, it's very important that we are actually seen as not only the function that says no or the function that is there for people to, you know, to bring their complaints. Because it's, it's sometimes a bit like how a term might be perceived in some, you know, some companies, unfortunately. It's really how we facilitate things and how we help the business and also help the employees. Because, you know, I'm strong believer, and that's my, you know, very strong conviction that, you know, employee engagement is really the key of success. I learned that when I was doing mergers and acquisitions, there was this old McKinsey study that was, you know, demonstrating that the difference between a successful merger and failure in a merger is actually the employee engagement. It's, you know, how people you know gain trust in the fact that, you know, the merger will be successful and how they are actually contributing. So it's something that I kept in mind, and I'm using, you know, on a regular basis, as well as in human resources, because you know our, one of our main function is really to ensure that there is a employee engagement that we build employee or we maintain, or we grow employee engagement. Companies go through different, you know, period of, you know, of, you know, in their lives. You know, like it can be successful, it can be less successful, but, you know, having a strong employee engagement, it's absolutely key, and that's what makes the difference so, and we measure that on a regular basis, you know, because, again, I believe in figures and and the measurements of the, you know, the employee net promoter score is, is very important. It's, it's not only important for our own employees, it's also important for effectiveness. It's also important for the for the mindset that everybody has, you know, when you feel like you are not only here to make your customer happy, but you are here to make your employees, your fellow employees, your colleague happy, it just like generates a complete different mindset and a complete different culture as well. And it's, it's, you know, critical for, you know, to be successful together,
Chris Rainey 32:06
yeah? No, I completely, I completely agree. And I think something you said to me before is like, you know, employ, this is not just the role of HR, right? Yeah, it's
Laurent Aufils 32:15
not the role of HR. It's sometimes, you know, when you when you discuss with, you know, like the business operations, you know, sales and so on, so on. They tend to kind of push them, hey, it's the role of HR, you know, employee engagement. You know, it's your your role, your job, back to the office. You know, you know, to have people you know, back to the office. You know, it's an HR, you know thing. And you know, again, that's not how it works. You know, we really need to to be skin in the game, what I call skin in the game. You know, all the entities and all the, you know, all the teams needs to be involved. Yes, HR might be leading, but you know it, it won't happen if you know, like business operations, the, you know, the heads of the different entities are not, you know, completely convinced, and are not taking part to the, you know, to the efforts and to this investment. So it's again, you know, I think how the role of HR has evolved over the last few years and how it's going to continue to evolve. It's how we are. It's how we actually help our, you know, colleagues and the business to be involved in some of the topics that are sometimes perceived as HR only, yeah, but actually company wide, you know, key success factors?
Chris Rainey 33:44
No, I agree before I let you go, because I we could do a whole another show on some of the other questions we have, we didn't even get into the more of the transformational stuff, which I would love to speak about more in the future. What would be your advice for those HR leaders of tomorrow. You know that perhaps have had an unconventional path like yourself, but find themselves sitting in the role of CPO. What advice did you wish you had when you first sat in the seat?
Laurent Aufils 34:14
I think that you know it brings us back to diversity, because I think the diversity of you know, the experiences that you have had, the skills as well, you know, I am definitely bringing something you know, which is related to a link to finance and to data, you know, and so on, so on. But it's, it's absolutely, you know, key. But you know, don't forget that human resources is human first. So you know, when you look at transformational HR leaders, which I think is going to be almost every HR, you know, in the older companies, because. You know, the world is going fast in different, you know, in different aspects. We still spoke about Gen AI. But there are also, you know, strong evolutions around the you know, you know, how we protect the planet and so on, so on. So, the key, you know, the key advice is, is really to to be there to demonstrate the value that the human factor brings to the business. Yeah. And my, my conviction is that, you know, we need to have the right balance between financial performance and human performance, human or social performance. And it's, it's absolutely key, and we need to have the right balance as well between short term and long term, and that's where HR rules lies.
Chris Rainey 35:47
I'm wondering, like quickly, before I let you go, like now, having being on the other side, do you have a new found appreciation from from previously looking at from a financial lens and the numbers, to then looking now for more the human lens in or was that always something you were conscious of? Or do you feel like you have a new found appreciation now being on the other side? Does that make sense? What I'm trying to say, yeah, the balance between the financial and the human, you know?
Laurent Aufils 36:15
Yeah, I think that it's, you know, it's something that I, I learned over my career, and I, you know, I had that conviction, you know, early enough I saw that's, you know, that's good, but I did experience it, meaning that I had different, You know, projects that I worked, you know, in where you know, for instance, we are, you know, what we're doing right now and around, you know, this shift in the business model, the fact that, you know, we need to invest in training, but we need to really invest we just not need to, you Know, tick the box. Spend that amount in training, but you need to truly invest not only money, but efforts time, you know, it's absolutely key, and that what drives, you know, the success of this transformation. So, yeah, I, you know, I would be lying if I was telling you that I have exactly the same way to position the balance between the financial performance and the human performance now that I had before, I definitely learned a lot, and I've seen that, you know, based on experience. It's, you know, it's definitely moving, but it's, you know, without financial performance, you can't have a there is no reason. Very much. I mean, mine as well, yeah, and
Chris Rainey 37:47
like you said, it's the balance, right? Or it's a blend. It's not even a balance, it's a blend. I don't like the word balance, because it means that, yeah, so it needs to be a blend, right? I appreciate you taking the time to come and I could talk to you forever, so but super fascinating story that you have, and I know many leaders listening probably would love to pick your brain about very few people we speak to, to have that diversity of background that you have, which I think is really interesting, and the lens that you look through HR in And the business itself and people is very interesting. So I appreciate you taking the time out and wish you all the best until we next speak.
Laurent Aufils 38:27
Thank you very much. Chris was pleasure to have this exchange. And you know, it's always good to you know, to confront these ideas and to you know, to be able to share experiences as well. So it's it's something I'm very keen on. So thank you again for this great opportunity. Chris. Really appreciate it.
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Laurent Aufils, Chief People Officer at Orange Business.