How Wingstop Turns Hourly Workers into 70% of Its Leaders
In this episode of the HR Leaders Podcast, we speak with Donnie Upshaw, Chief People Officer & Senior Vice President at Wingstop Restaurants Inc., about scaling one of the fastest-growing restaurant brands while protecting culture and developing frontline talent.
Donnie shares how 70% of Wingstop’s general managers started as hourly employees, why the GM role is the most important in the company, and how intentional development, micro-learning, and recognition fuel growth. He also explains how Wingstop uses storytelling, internal podcasts, and community giving to connect 47,000+ team members worldwide.
🎓 In this episode, Donnie discusses:
Why 70% of Wingstop GMs started as hourly employees
Why the GM is the single most important role in the business
How to scale culture across 2,800 restaurants in 15 countries
Building connection through storytelling, recognition, and community giving
Using micro-learning, gamification, and mobile tools for frontline development
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Donnie Upshaw 0:00
You have to be a student of the business. You have to understand how the business operates, what drives the business, what's a detractor from the business. I think that's enabler to make you a really strong HR professional. If you spend time studying the business and in your team, expect that of your team as well. You'll have a pretty successful HR career and HR team. If you have that ops mindset, that ops focus, that really understands what drives whatever business you're in, you
Chris Rainey 0:40
Hey, Donny, welcome to the show, my friend. How are you doing?
Donnie Upshaw 0:47
Well, thanks for having me, Chris. Appreciate the invite and happy to be a guest on the show.
Chris Rainey 0:52
Yeah, I know I said to you before, but I'm saying it again. I'm big fan, big fan of the brand. Even my daughter, I told her today that I'm interviewing some of wing slot, but she was very excited.
Donnie Upshaw 1:03
I like that. We appreciate that. Tell her we love her back. And it's been
Chris Rainey 1:06
incredible. And I know we're gonna get into this. How quickly the brand came onto the market and became so well established, I've never seen anything like it. If I'm being honest, out of nowhere? Yeah, almost.
Donnie Upshaw 1:21
Well, it's, it's really a testament to our flavor fans right across the globe. But yeah, excited to talk about the journey for
Chris Rainey 1:28
sure. Yeah. Well, before we get into that, let's talk about your journey telephone, a bit about your background and your journey to where we are today.
Donnie Upshaw 1:35
Yeah, so I've been in HR over 20 years, which is really crazy to say out loud, but I grew up, you know, kind of working retail in high school and then through college, and then got an opportunity to take an entry level role as a recruiter. That was my first first job. Was called staffing coordinator back then, but that was my first job in HR, and I was doing retail recruiting for convenience store retailer in the southeast, and then really my career just took off from there. Had the ability to take on additional responsibility, different leadership levels, different roles across the southeast, and just really enjoyed not only having the ability to attract the right talent, but being able to ensure that folks are in the highest and best use and in the right roles. And so curating talent has always been a passion of mine, and just been blessed with opportunities to grow and excel and learn, I would say I've learned a ton over my time in the space, but really enjoy again, like just the talent aspect of it, helping organizations scale, grow, attract the right talent, retain the right talent, and be able to put the talent in the best and highest position for them to grow and Excel so and then I've been at Wingstop now for seven years. I started with just an HR scope, and over my time here, have gained additional responsibility. So today, I lead the teams that help train for new restaurant openings. Help train new team members, build the content of training as well. So we have a content house where we build all of training in house. Also lead the team's guest experience as well. So think about how we take care of our guests if they've had a great experience, then if they don't have a great experience, how we help recover them. And then I'll lead our corporate restaurant portfolio. We have 47 restaurants in Dallas and Las Vegas, and so I help drive the operations in those 47 restaurants, amazing.
Chris Rainey 3:49
So you have the franchise, but you own those ones, as we do,
Donnie Upshaw 3:53
yeah. So we're, we're about 2800 Restaurants today, and outside of those 47 the remainder of those are all franchise. And we call those brand partners, but they're all franchise restaurants, and we're in 15 countries across the globe.
Chris Rainey 4:08
Amazing, yeah, and you're fully established here in the UK,
Donnie Upshaw 4:13
exciting market for us, and we continue to grow that market. Yeah, absolutely
Chris Rainey 4:17
incredible. What was it about? What attracted you to Wingstop? Does that occur?
Donnie Upshaw 4:23
It's funny, I get asked that question a lot, and the same things that attracted me over seven years ago remain true today, and that is the opportunity for growth for the brand, the white space that's in front of us. We have an amazing product. So I was a fan of the product prior to joining the brand. And then again, the people, the culture here is extremely strong. We sell chicken wings. We don't take ourselves too seriously, so we've got this really fun product that we're delivering to the guests in a really cool culture to bring all that together. And I think that's what attracted me to the brand, and what keeps me at the brand today. Then the ability to grow and learn. Like I said, I've had a lot of additional responsibilities since joining the brand and Wingstop before, is that, not only for me, but for our entire team member community, and so that part is, is really cool to be a part of,
Chris Rainey 5:13
yeah, scaling so fast. What has been the key sort of strategies behind scaling that quickly, but still maintaining that competitive edge. You know what really makes wing stop? Wing stop?
Donnie Upshaw 5:27
Yeah, yeah, for sure, I'd say our people are a competitive advantage, and we've said that. It's at the foundation of our strategy, and that strategy hasn't changed in my time here, and I think that is the important piece. Is you have to hire the fit your culture. You have to grow and develop the fit your culture, and then you have to have a really high level of accountability for people to to live the wing stop way and live our values. And I think that's what's been a we've been able to put a moat around it as we've scaled, but it is one of the things that we continue to, you know, be very much so top of mind, and a priority for us is making sure we have we maintain that strong culture as we scale and as we grow. Like I said, you know, we're in 15 markets across 15 countries across the globe, and so it's really important that that culture is extendable. And that's only way that happens is by the leaders that you have in the organization who, you know, keep the culture a priority as well.
Chris Rainey 6:21
Yeah. How does that show up in the flow of work, though? Because people always talk about keeping the culture and stuff like that practically. How does that show up in the workplace and in your and in your stores?
Donnie Upshaw 6:33
Yeah, I think collaboration is key. We leave our Eagles at the door. I think those are the really important elements. Is that we, you know, we work together. Everybody wants to win as a team. We're a winning brand. We have success, a proven track record of success and winning, and everybody wants to be a part of that winning culture. And so those are the important elements. Is you've got to, you know, make sure that that people put the team before themselves, and that, that, you know, they collaborate together, and we break down silos. I think the things that we talk about constantly, you know, you have to make them a priority, and accountability has to be high in those areas.
Chris Rainey 7:10
Yeah, there's a lot of that come from then investing in your people managers, because really, they set the tone.
Donnie Upshaw 7:17
Right? It does right? Yeah, the manager, I always say, that the GM and the restaurants, the most important position is entire organization. If you have a really strong GM, a GM that leads from the front, a general manager that's passionate about their people and development, you're going to have a successful four walls. And so we do invest a lot into that role.
Chris Rainey 7:36
Yeah, you've mentioned to me before that giving people opportunities is the most rewarding part of your job. Could you share some stories that have really stuck with you over the years?
Donnie Upshaw 7:47
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. 70% of our general manager population comes from someone who started front of house or back of house. So think about that. They're an hourly rule today. They come in probably not knowing what they want for their future, and then they get it, they see the path to growing and building a successful career at wing stop. And so we even have success stories where we have, you know, senior district managers who started as a as a front of house team member or back of house team member. Those things are those examples are tremendous, where we've been able to grow talent, invest in talent, and watch them grow and take on really larger leadership roles, a lot of responsibility, much larger teams. And so I think those, for me, to me, are the true success stories. And what makes Wingstop unique is that we're investing in people, and then they see the growth, right? They understand, like, 2800 restaurants, when I started with this brand, we were just at 1000 and so they see the growth. There's there's positions and roles that we haven't contemplated today, that we'll need a year from now or 18 months from now. And I think people get really excited about that and enthused about the amount of growth that's in front of the brand, and what that means for them in their careers. And so those stories, I think, are abundant. There's a lot of examples of someone who started that, you know, just an hourly team member, and now really having the ability to lead a large team, take care of their families differently, and be able to talk about, you know, the growth and success they've had with the brand.
Chris Rainey 9:14
Yeah, so many powerful stories. And obviously, as you're scaling, do you have, do you have you put a system in place that you can share those stories, recognize those moments, especially as a huge portion is frontline, right? And you're not in an office. How do you make sure that they still feel connected and that you can celebrate those moments and share that? Do you have some sort of platform or system of doing that just out of
Donnie Upshaw 9:38
curiosity? We do, we do, and it's something that we continue to get better at, I think, every day. But we bring the entire franchise, brand partner community together annually, and we talk about those wins and those successes. That's one venue and outlet to do that. We also obviously leverage LinkedIn to share some of those stories as well, and then we have some internal communications that we you know, we try to hide. I like team members that have had some of that success, so so people can see that it's tangible and it's real, whether you started yesterday, or you've been with the brand for two years or five years. We even have, you know, team members that worked in restaurant for 10 plus years. So with that type of tenure, I think it's important to show that there's there's a lot of opportunity to advance and grow. And so we try to make sure we are sharing those stories across, you know, every outlet that we can to connect with the team member.
Chris Rainey 10:26
Yeah, I think it's very important, right? And it's so, so powerful, both for retention, both for also attracting talent. You can see those stories, right? Because it's sometimes it's difficult. You might be in a store to really see is that actually happening, all these opportunities actually real, right? With social media and technology and and obviously our communication tools, there's such powerful outlets for us to be able to share some of those authentic stories that aren't scripted or, you know, very overly produced.
Donnie Upshaw 11:00
Yeah, yeah. We even have a little in house podcast too, that we brought some nice team members on one zero, who's one that I can think about off the top of my head, who has been a guest on the podcast, and we she got an opportunity to really share her story, which was real and tangible. People can touch and feel it right. So we try to do that as much as we possibly
Chris Rainey 11:20
can, that's incredible. I've actually recommended that to a few companies as well, like DHL, actually have a podcast hosted by their global HR executive Lindsay. Shout out, Lindsay, if it isn't. And they actually, they actually share that across all platforms, even like, you know, Spotify and YouTube, and they use that, oh, really amazing, amazing as well. And what they found is employees in their warehouses and distribution centers are listening to the show, like, and, you know, like, and getting updates about the business through their podcast. And it's and it's a medium that they already have. Like, don't try and pull them to you. They already use YouTube. They already use That's right. So, like, that's right. Meet them where they're at. And she even mentioned to me there's a few people that they've hired that mentioned that they they applied for the role because they heard the podcast.
Donnie Upshaw 12:14
Yeah, time, yeah, I've had that happen a ton. People say, Well, I've listened to your podcast, and I get a real feel for the culture based on the podcast. So it's helped. It's helped from recruiting perspective for us as well. The name of the podcast is, say that podcast by wing. Stop. So go check it out. Nice. You haven't already.
Chris Rainey 12:30
I'm glad we didn't plan on talking about now. I'm glad we mentioned that. And for anyone listen, I'm gonna link it below. So whatever platform, whatever platform you're on, make sure you do that. And I mean, I say very, I think also, I'm assuming you have a quite a young demographic, you do, right? So something like a podcast is really going to resonate.
Donnie Upshaw 12:48
That's right, because, to your point, they're already in these platforms, right? They're already using and leveraging podcasts today. So I think it's a good way to connect and that people are already familiar with. And they don't have to go, you know? They don't have to try too hard, listed right on your way into work or while you're working out, etc. So I think, you know, you have to meet the team member where they are, and that's what we try to do.
Chris Rainey 13:09
Yeah, you mentioned earlier about we don't take our two sales too seriously, and I've noticed that in your marketing and your branding, even the adverts that I've seen, and it's super fun to do that. But obviously there is a serious side in terms of the development which you mentioned earlier. How do you do that? Because I've always, you know, a lot of times frontline workers have been neglected in terms of their learning and development, because it's quite challenging, right? They're obviously on their feet. They're working all day. Where do you make space for that? So you're developing a lot of you mentioned some numbers earlier, of how many leaders you deliver. How are you doing that? What does that look
Donnie Upshaw 13:44
yeah, you have to be super intentional. And then you talk about, we just talked about meeting team members where they are. I think you have anything that's a learning element. It has to be in video format. It has to be micro sessions. It has to be engaged in. You have to have gamification, like all those things are really important, along with the hands on right a lot of it is hands on leadership that they're that they're getting in restaurant, their situational leadership, where they're having to, you know, have a difficult conversation with a team member or maybe even a guest. And so they have that hands on interaction and development. But anything that you do, that you're pushing learning to them. It has to be in the way in which they want to learn. And that's, you know, micro videos, micro segments. It has to be engaging, and you have to leverage technology to do that. And so that's the way in which we try to, again, meet them where they are, and provide outlets for them to grow and learn.
Chris Rainey 14:38
Yeah, I think that's so important if, just because I know so many people listening, have a similar challenge, though, is this a mobile experience? You have something on site in store, so they have an
Donnie Upshaw 14:48
app. It is. We have a we have an app. We have iPads in the store, or tablet in the store and that store, and we try to do it prior to shift start. That's our kind. A sweet spot, if you will, because once the restaurant starts getting busy, it's obvious it's out the door, right? And we were list realistic about that. We also have a tracking, accountability element of it too. So we have a scorecard in which we measure the operations of the restaurant, and a piece of that scorecard is a development portion, and so we make it really important and priority, top of mind for not only our brand partners, but also the managers in the restaurant. I think if you make it a priority, you make it important, and then it'll be important to the team
Chris Rainey 15:27
members. I love that, and I love the fact that you can then get that consistency across restaurants in terms of the quality, right. That's right as well. Is there also career opportunities presented in the same way, like a sort of a in terms of internal roles, or sort of a talent marketplace element, like how they find out about potential opportunities. How do you communicate?
Donnie Upshaw 15:47
Yeah, yeah. I think the way in which that happens is it's a pretty vertical tree to climb in the restaurant, and so that is, you know, front of house, back of house, team member to then shiftly, to then Assistant General Manager to then General Manager, and then above restaurant leadership. And so I think team that's really evident to team members, and to your point, right? They say, Oh, I work alongside Chris. Chris just got promoted to shift lead. I see how, I see what it takes to do that is very visible and tangible to me. And so that encourages, that inspires, and that's how we start to build that talent pipeline.
Chris Rainey 16:22
Yeah, love that. I know another important element to this, which I don't think like we talk about enough, is about giving back to our communities. Yeah, right, because those are the people that you serve. Those are actually, those are your employees in many cases, right? To talk about that?
Donnie Upshaw 16:38
Yeah, I think it's really important to us to give back in the communities in which we operate in. And we partner with St Jude, and we've partnered with No Kid Hungry, both two organizations that we're really passionate about that are making a broader impact across the US. And so I think it's really important for us to make sure AI team members know that it's important and part of what we do, but also providing outlet in which to do that. And for those that can't give back financially, we encourage giving back with time, which I think is another really, it's a currency, right? And so another really important part of what we do. And so we try to make sure there's a balance of both, and have an ability to give back in numerous ways. And then we also ask our flavor fans, our guests, to participate in those opportunities as well, to impact the community also. And so I think just providing outlets in which to do that and beating that drum continuously, but it is a critical part of who we are.
Chris Rainey 17:38
Yeah, you need to do like on your podcast, like a flavor plan, flavor FAN OF THE WEEK segment, you need to, like, Yeah, we should. That'd be really cool, like a recognition, recognition I have you on, yeah, I could be a favorite fan, but that's what I mean. It could be internally and externally. I guess that's what I mean. Like, you have a flavor fan of the week, but that could also be a recognition moment, right? It could be something and have that you call everyone flat. Is that what you call employees, like flavor fans, is that? Is that?
Donnie Upshaw 18:06
We call it team we call them team members, team and flavor fans, our guests,
Chris Rainey 18:11
yeah, oh, they're your guests. Okay, okay, so your customers, because, because I have to get, I have to get used to, that's right, I'm not used to guests. But, of course, in your industry, I completely get it as well. But yeah, like a flavor fan will be a really cool like of the week type thing.
Donnie Upshaw 18:28
I need to shoot more content. I need to get Yeah,
Chris Rainey 18:31
well, I've seen your productions. You clearly got a good team. I've seen what's happening. How would you say working at the organization has transformed you personally as a leader,
Donnie Upshaw 18:43
yeah, a ton. I mean, I've grown a tremendous amount. I think as leaders, we want to have a sphere of control. And I think the best thing a leader can do is hire really smart people and get out of their way, right and remove obstacles for them, I think, be a conduit for them to get the work done and have really good outcomes. So for me, it's been really about allowing people to lead, allowing people to fail fast, giving people the space in which to learn and be developed. I think that's that's been the number one lesson, is really being able to hire really strong people, give them the right tools to be successful, and then get out of their way and let them run.
Chris Rainey 19:33
Yeah? No. I mean, I learned that the hard way as a leader, I feel like naturally, when you first become a leader, you feel like your jobs to solve all the problems. That's right, and then you become the bottleneck That's right. But it's putting that to one side right, and kind of bringing the best out of people and and supporting them and and a lot of times that means us taking a step back and and putting the trust in in those individuals. This is why we hired them.
Donnie Upshaw 19:59
And. Yeah, that's right, and it's hard, Chris, don't get me wrong, it's hard, right? Because you've been praised, you've excelled, because you've been a problem solver, because you know you've made all the decisions. But as you grow as a leader, you understand like the less and less amount of decisions you make, probably the better your team is performing. And so I think that's the key to really leading is, is allowing your team the freedom to create, to innovate, to solve problems, and then they can pull you in, obviously, when it's needed. But, but it's really about allowing them to be successful and be at the very best.
Chris Rainey 20:37
Yeah. I mean, that's one of the biggest shifts me, going from being a high performing individual contributor to a servant leader was, was something I wasn't ready for. And in my previous company, like many, actually is just because your high performance, individual contribute, individual contribute, doesn't mean you're going to be a great leader. You need training. I was just most people like me were just thrown into the seat. Good luck, like, not much training, but listening also, it
Donnie Upshaw 21:05
comes to that too. It's like you've got to be really honest with people and give them really clear feedback and actionable feedback. I think as leaders, we, you know, typically shy away from from from the difficult conversations. And I think the really good leaders hit those head on, and people appreciate you for it. They may not like what you're saying in the moment, but they'll reflect and really appreciate you taking the time to invest in them and be really direct and and that's been my approach. And I think, you know, a lot of people will say, like, yeah, he's direct, but he's fair and he's honest. And so I think those are really important pieces about, you know, growing as a leader like you have to be able to give that to your team and and that's how they grow, that's how they excel, and that's how you get better outcomes.
Chris Rainey 21:52
Yeah, I also realized later on that you're you're robbing them that opportunity if you don't give the feedback 100% right? So you think you're doing him a favor. You're not. You're just, you're just being selfish because you don't want to have an uncomfortable conversation. That's right. So you can say, and then again, it's not easy. Let's just be clear on that. But I think what we found here h i Lead is a healthy balance of radical candor, yeah, but combined with leading with empathy, that's right? So you need that combination. You can still be direct and still be empathetic at the same time.
Donnie Upshaw 22:29
You have to build trust too, right? It's about building trust. And if you have that trust, I think people will assume positive intent, and I think that's the key to getting, you know, getting having that breakthrough conversation, right?
Chris Rainey 22:41
Are you literally I was about to say, assume positive intent. We say that all the time as something that we say all the time in our meetings or someone joins the business. I always say, listen whenever you're getting feedback or you're having a conversation that feels maybe a bit uncomfortable, assume positive intent, because we do have a culture here of radical candor and moving fast and quickly, and that's something that some people are not very used to. So and most of the time, that person saying that because they want the best for you, they want the best for the business, the best for the team. And it doesn't mean it's a personal attack,
Donnie Upshaw 23:14
that's right? And at the end of the day, I just want to win, like that's what it's about. It's about winning, right? And so I think the team understands that. They know that, yeah, but it takes time to build that trust.
Chris Rainey 23:26
I had an employee. I sold this story before I say it quickly, that joined us not too long ago, and we had a Monday morning meeting where the whole team comes in, and someone was sort of challenging the strategy that was laying out, saying, you know, I disagree, Chris, I think we should go this direction, and just the new the new employee took me into me, and was, I can't believe that person challenged you as a CEO and and said that you were wrong in front of the whole room. And I was like, that's what I want you to do. They're literally in shock. I was like, Well, this is why I hired you for your expertise and knowledge, right? Yes, I may be the CEO and founder, but doesn't mean I have the answers. And they were like in shock, because clearly, they probably come from, they came from an organization where it was very much, you know, I don't want to say it, but they didn't have great leaders. Let's just say that in that way as well. But listen, before I let you go, I want to jump into our quick fire round. At this point, I'm going to tell the video editors to put a fiery chicken wing. Come up and have it on fire and have it on fire if I can make that happen with my editing team, but we'll try right now. We believe it now, yeah, I believe we'll figure it out. JC, if you're listening so you got like, 30 seconds per question, yeah, okay, all right. Are you ready? Let's do it, yeah, what are your hobbies and passion outside of the office?
Donnie Upshaw 24:43
Family, family, family, family, family. I spend a lot of time away from home, so it's about deposits. When I'm home, I say, life, you need more deposits than withdrawal. So I'm always trying to get deposits with family.
Speaker 1 24:56
I love that one. I'm gonna use it. Yeah, drop the gym on you.
Chris Rainey 24:58
Chris, just you. Yeah, that's a good one. I mean, my coach told me one time, no amount of success at work makes up for failure in the home. That's right. And that stuck with me forever. Since then, yeah, as well. All right. Bar, yeah, that's a good one. It's probably better than what I just said. He probably said it a lot better than I did, but it was something along those lines. If you could click your fingers and change one thing about HR, what would you change?
Donnie Upshaw 25:26
I think it needs to be more operational and less tactical. And so when I hire a team, when I bring people onto the team, I want business leaders first, HR practitioners second. Yeah, I love it.
Chris Rainey 25:39
What do you think that your family and kids would think you do for a living. If you ask, if you ask them, my
Donnie Upshaw 25:45
girls think I'm a manager, so that's
Chris Rainey 25:49
fair enough. They're not. They're pretty good. What legacy Do you want to leave behind for them?
Donnie Upshaw 25:56
Yeah, I think it's really important. So I'm a girl dad, and so I think it's really about making sure they are set up for success and whatever it is that they want to do in life. And so it's about instilling confidence in them so then they can go out into the world and do whatever it is that they want to do, which I believe they all will do. But it's making sure they have that Head Start, right? And and are set up for success. And so to me, I think that's really important. That's really critical, amazing, if you wasn't right now my daughter, my youngest daughter, said she wanted to keep when she gets married, she wants to keep my last name. And so to me, that's legacy,
Chris Rainey 26:35
right? That's amazing. That's going to be an interesting conversation with her husband. She's saying that right now at seven. So my daughter is also seven as well. If he wasn't in HR, what do you think you'd
Donnie Upshaw 26:51
be doing? Interesting question, leading people at the end of the day. I think that's what I enjoy the most. So regardless of capacity, role, job, company, leading people.
Chris Rainey 27:04
What would you say is the biggest misconception people have about you?
Donnie Upshaw 27:10
You know, people think I'm unapproachable at times, which I like, really, I think title has something to do with that. But, yeah, I think that's a misconception. I'm pretty cool dude.
Chris Rainey 27:19
Yeah, like, HR is going to tell on us. Yeah, no worries. What would you say is the biggest investment you've made in yourself?
Donnie Upshaw 27:30
I would life learner. You have to be a life learner. I'm learning every single day. I try to read as much as I possibly can. But the biggest investment is like, never, never stop learning.
Chris Rainey 27:42
Yeah, what's something? And this was a plan, part of my questions, but you just intrigued me. What's something interesting that you learned recently?
Donnie Upshaw 27:49
Interesting I learned recently? Well, I'm learning a ton about AI right now, yeah, and, and how it can just make us all more productive and use it for good, versus like, you know, you're hearing all the headlines where, yeah, no, no more jobs, but, but using it and leveraging it to be more productive and and, you know, faster to the business, I think. And so that's what I'm I'm spending a lot of time learning, right?
Chris Rainey 28:16
Yeah, that's a whole rabbit hole. Who just say is the one person in your career that's had the biggest impact.
Donnie Upshaw 28:25
I just have to go farther here, and I'll tell you a little quick story. Is when I was probably 11, around 11 or 12 years old, we had this enormous oak tree in our front lawn, and in it, I mean, just drop leaves constantly. So I'm out there raking, and at this point it's hot. I'm from Florida, living in Florida, South Florida, and I'm probably doing a half ass job. And my dad comes out and he says, Son, regardless of what you do in life, you should do, you know, be the very best at it. So if you're going to rake these leaves, I need you to be the best leaf breaker that possibly lives. And so I think that just it talks about, like, just the importance of not being outworked. And so that was my approach from then forward. Is no matter what room I was in, I may not be the smartest person in the room. I actually don't want to be the smartest person in room, but you won't outwork me. Yeah, and I think that's been one of the keys to success, and how I've, you know, made it to this stage in my career, which, you know, if you ask the 11 year old me, I didn't even know this was possible. So I think that's, that's one of the life lessons, I think I'll, you know, keep with me and hopefully instill into my girls as well.
Chris Rainey 29:37
That's so interesting. You say that, because that's one of the things I always say to my daughter as well, and it influenced me. So I think I mentioned when we first spoke, before this call, my mom was a single parent raising four kids in the government housing, right? And, you know, I played professional competitive sports, and I remember, like when I started playing ice hockey, I didn't have all the best equipment. And I don't I know I had all the hand me downs. I didn't have many advantages, but the moment we got on the ice, we were all equal, yeah, and I was like, I'm going to be the best at everything I do. So it doesn't matter my background, my experience. I'm not going to hold myself back based on those and every single sport I played, ice hockey, I played, like, table tennis, basketball, you name it. And even when I went to the business, I was like, who's the best salesperson in this company? I'm sitting next to that person as well. And that kind of something that I've always pushed was, I love that answer. I think, I think
Donnie Upshaw 30:34
that's great. I think that's in same I mean, my background is, you know, we came from, from, from nothing, right? And and I saw my dad just work really hard, and so that was the example I had. Same thing. I played collegiate sports. I played basketball. I wasn't the fastest, I couldn't jump the highest, but on the court, you were not going to outwork me. And I think taking that, applying that to business and and into the boardroom. I think that's, you know, again, really the key to success is, for me, has been putting in the work and and you see the fruits of your labor,
Chris Rainey 31:10
one of the things that you enjoy in the office, we have a sign that says, Seek discomfort, yeah, and because that's really where the growth happens. And if you become best friends with failure and discomfort, and it almost becomes your baseline of operating as well. And it takes time. You got to put the reps in. You got to fail forward, but it becomes the norm, and that's kind of where the magic happens as well. So listen, last question, what advice would you give to the HR leaders that tomorrow they're going to be sitting your seat one day?
Donnie Upshaw 31:47
Yeah, I think it is, again. I think I said this a little bit earlier, but it's really about you have to be a student of the business, and you have to understand how the business operates. What drives the business was it was a detractor from the business. I think that's enabler to make you a really strong HR professional. If you, if you spend time studying the business and in your team, expect that of your team as well. You'll have a pretty successful HR career and HR team if you have that ops mindset than ops focus that really understands what drives whatever business you're in.
Chris Rainey 32:24
Yeah. And at the same time, don't take yourself too serious. Have fun at the same time.
Donnie Upshaw 32:31
That's right. Sneakers to work. Do you know what?
Chris Rainey 32:35
Since I quit my job and started this business, I haven't worn a suit in the studio once and for 10 years, I wore a different suit every day. People always surprised when they come in. I'm like, we're just being who we are. And this is, this is our authentic selves and and it's actually you get so much more energy, and you do so, like, it's
Donnie Upshaw 32:57
exhausting life. When you can be yourself, you get more out of life.
Chris Rainey 33:00
Yeah, like I used to have, like, a back I shouldn't say this really live on here, but I'm gonna say anyway, like, when I, when I, because I grew up with a quiet East London accent, because I grew up in, you know, the hood of the hood of London, where I live, where I live, was the highest crime rate in the entire UK, literally, not even exaggerating. And when I came into the workplace, I felt like I had to talk and walk a certain way. Otherwise, I was like, you know, people would say stuff like, you can't talk about that, you know, to clients and stuff like that. And it was just exhausting to go through that, right? And then on the other end, I was like, at some point, I was like, I just kind of just got to be me, you know. And if you like it great. If not is as well. So listen, man, I could talk to you forever, but I know I gotta let you go. Thanks so much for coming on like as I said, massive fan of what you guys are doing. Congratulations to you and the team. Love it, and I look forward to chatting again soon.
Donnie Upshaw 33:53
Yeah, thank you. Appreciate you having me. It's been really fun. Thanks, man. You.
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Donnie Upshaw, Chief People Officer & Senior Vice President at Wingstop Restaurants Inc.