Why AI Fails Without Psychological Safety (and How to Fix It)
In this episode of the HR Leaders Podcast, we sit down with Raj Verma, Chief Culture, Inclusion and Employee Experience Officer at Sanofi, to explore how culture, trust and co-creation became the foundation of one of the most ambitious AI transformations in the industry. Raj breaks down why culture is a verb, not a vibe, and how Sanofi intentionally shaped behaviors and values to support AI at scale.
He explains how Sanofi began its AI journey before the ChatGPT wave, driven by a visionary CEO and a bold ambition to become the first pharma company to use AI at scale. Raj details how recognition, inclusion, and data-driven insights became critical levers for building trust, strengthening decision-making, and ensuring AI adoption across 100,000+ employees worldwide.
The conversation also dives into psychological safety, bias detection, global recognition platforms, and why culture, inclusion and employee experience must be tightly integrated if companies want AI to stick and deliver real transformation.
🎓 In this episode, Raj discusses:
Embedding psychological safety so employees felt safe adopting AI
Leveraging global data to detect bias and guide leadership decisions
Co-creating culture, EX and inclusion practices to make transformation stick
Using recognition and belonging to strengthen performance and engagement
Starting Sanofi’s AI journey early and why culture had to be intentionally rebuilt
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When companies build flexible work, psychological safety, and authentic appreciation, engagement soars.
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The future belongs to organizations that make recognition their competitive edge.
Chris Rainey 0:00
Raj, welcome my friend. How you doing? I'm doing very well. Thank you for the invitation. Got fresh off stage. I am now you have the unfortunate thing about a conversation with me. I'm not sure how fresh I am off stage, but I am off stage. Well, how was it share everyone what you were, what was discussion? So I
Raj Verma 0:28
was talking about culture and AI, and how AI alone just isn't enough, and the culture and the trust that goes with that is probably the biggest
Chris Rainey 0:39
thing. Well, let's, I mean, there's been a lot of conversation about AI, but I'm excited to talk about, you know what cultural shifts were essential to prepare sanofis people for AI, for this AI transformation?
Raj Verma 0:51
Yeah, look, I think there's a few things that we were very intentional about. I always, I heard this on when I keep using it, the culture is isn't just a vibe, it's a verb. So you have to do something, right? You have to be intentional, because if you do nothing, you'll still have a culture. It may not be the one that you want, but you'll still have a culture. So what we tried to do at Sanofi was be very intentional about what behaviors, what values we want people to practice and why. So a lot of the work we did was around co creation. So the areas that I looked after are culture, inclusion and employee experience, and that tri factor, I feel enables transformations to stick, because it may take longer, but it goes deeper. So with AI, we got people involved right at the start. We were very transparent about, you know, less experiment. We don't know all the answers. And we started the AI journey before chat GBT was even a thing. Yeah, right. We started in 2020, 2021, what
Chris Rainey 1:49
drove that? If you haven't asked him, what we have, what's the why behind
Raj Verma 1:53
that? Look, I think we had a very visionary CEO, and we do have, still have a visionary CEO. He saw things before they were coming, and he said right from the start that we want to be the world's first farmer to use AI at scale. So in Sanofi, we talk about AI in three terms, three buckets, expert, AI, generative. Ai, a snackable. Ai, right? So all three are for a slightly different purpose, but they're linked to ensuring that we can help our managers make better, faster decisions on different areas. Yeah. What does that
Chris Rainey 2:27
look like in a practical sense? You're talking about on stage, bravo. What is Bravo?
Raj Verma 2:32
So for example, Bravo is our global platform for recognition. So many organizations have this. It's not new news, but the way that we built it was about ensuring that every employee had access around the world. So having a global platform makes a big difference. The second was connecting it to our values, and the third was really helping people understand why recognition is such a big part of improving the productivity that you get from your teams to ultimately improve our patients lives. Part of my job is to show the big picture, share the story and help them see where they are. They're all the protagonists. They're the people who make the story come to life, but sometimes they don't realize that's what they are?
Chris Rainey 3:20
Yeah, no, I like that. I like that analogy. There's also, in terms of your role, an element of inclusion, obviously, that shows up when in recognition, right as well. It can often be over overlooked, especially if you have a distributed workforce. Yeah, you know, we've seen a data around people being recognized that are in the office versus remote and other things like that, but also the data surfacing individuals across the business you perhaps wouldn't see.
Raj Verma 3:50
You know, look, the data that we get from the platform is hugely helpful. So I'll get, you know, an insight every couple of months, say, in my team, this is how many people have been recognized. This is how many people they've recognized. We can also get data about which countries or business units are using the platform more, which are using it less, and which are not using it all. So we can help them, coach them through the value of using recognition as a culture lever to help people build trust. Yeah. It also shows you know, are more men, recognizing more men versus women or minority groups or people with disabilities. Is there any sort of link there? Is there bias there that will show up that we can then do something with? Yeah, the data for us is gold, and having a platform that's linked to lots of our other technology is what makes it happen. Yeah, and that's really important for us, because we are great data informed. You know, we're not doing this on a whim. We're not doing it on just instincts. We, as a science based company, we have to use the data. As the first port of call, then determine how that can help shape decisions we have to make.
Chris Rainey 5:06
Have you looked at this in the sense of through like retention as well, like those that are being recognized versus those are not, and looking at their attention and performance, etc,
Raj Verma 5:15
it's a great statistic from Gallup. I think it's that recognition reduces turnover by up to three, three times, right? So that feeling of being seen makes a huge difference. And when you're in a purpose driven organization, you want people to really remember always why they're there. Because people have choice. They can work anywhere they want. Why do we want them to join us and stay with us and grow with us and help us? You know, one of my first big projects working with corporate comms was to help shape the purpose of the organization, and the headline we use is that we're chasing the miracles of science to improve people's lives. And we never, ever forget that.
Chris Rainey 6:01
Did you actually add the and we'll never, ever forget that. I
Raj Verma 6:03
just did that now podcast, but I think there were too many words for our corporate affairs team.
Chris Rainey 6:11
I love the ad lib, though, on the end of ad lib for now, no, I mean, what would you say is a common misconception you probably hear about people with your role. Look, I
Raj Verma 6:22
think when you're working in, I guess, what most organizations call a center expertise, it's easy to be seen as disconnected. I am not an expert. I grew up as a generalist HR person you know, running countries, running business units, geographies, international clients. And I've also done shared services, comp and band resourcing, talent learning, so I guess I'm fortunate that I have been able to see from every side. Yeah. So when I'm in a center of expertise role, I always start with, what is it that the business actually want to need? And the want and the need are key, right? Because they may want stuff, but do they actually need stuff? Everyone wants a lot of things, so prioritization, simplification, things that will land well, they're the things that we have to think about right at the start, not the end. And I think it's important that the organization has confidence that when we're designing things, we're designing them and we're co creating them with people for whom they are intended to serve. Yeah right. We do not do things in an ivory tower. We do not do things in isolation. We always test we bring people in at the start, middle and end. Yeah, right. And I think that makes the difference between having a very smart COE versus a very street wise Coe. And I'd say I'm more street wise and
Chris Rainey 7:48
smart. Yeah, I feel like it's it's better to be more street wise, street wise and smart. It's a lot of smart people, but being street white, I think I would clarify myself, didn't do Owen score, I've been successful due to being a bit more street wise along the way. I think one of the things cool about your role is that you're bringing together the culture and inclusion with the employee experience. I think it's pretty unique. And so Was that intentional? You know? I was
Raj Verma 8:13
really lucky. I was able to shape my role. And when I was drafting what I'd really like to do, and I wasn't planning on leaving my last organization, but the opportunity was so huge, a huge transformation, a huge organization and a purpose driven one, and I felt that the lessons I had learned through covid, and I I was a covid Hire, that people were leaving organizations for three things, the culture they were experiencing during covid, the way that they felt or didn't feel included, and the experience they were having every day. And there were three reasons people wanted to join organizations, the culture that could experience the inclusion that they felt and the experience are wrong, right? Factor, yeah, such a catalyst for making the transformation. Yeah,
Chris Rainey 9:03
for everyone listening, what would be your advice for those that are sort of CO leading this AI transformation? How do they do this, but while still keeping it human?
Raj Verma 9:13
Look, I don't think AI can stand on its own. I think it needs a focus on the culture that would enable it, on the trust that's built into it and the safety that's created for people who are using it right. Because everything we have done in Santa Fe and anybody in my role, I would say that if you don't build that psychological safety at the start, yeah, everything else becomes just that much harder. So invest the time to build a sense of belonging in your organization. So people give their very best,
Chris Rainey 9:49
yeah, you almost need to go slow to go fast. 100% Yeah, 100% listen, I appreciate you taking the time. John, my last minute. It means a lot. Great to meet you.
Raj Verma 9:56
Andrea, Chris, thank you so much.
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Raj Verma, Chief Culture, Inclusion and Employee Experience Officer at Sanofi.