Why HR Must Understand the Business First
In this episode of the HR Leaders Podcast, we sit down with Stephanie Werner-Dietz, Executive Vice President, Human Resources of ArcelorMittal, to explore how HR leaders can deeply connect with the business and drive people strategies that truly make an impact.
Stephanie shares her experience moving from the tech sector into manufacturing, the power of immersing yourself in the frontline, and how building trust and credibility transforms HR’s role in the business.
🎓 In this episode, Stephanie discusses:
Why simplicity and pragmatism are key to adoption
Balancing digital transformation with frontline needs
How to build trust and credibility with leadership teams
Why immersing yourself in the business is essential for HR
The biggest mistakes HR makes when rolling out new processes
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Stephanie Werner-Dietz 0:00
When you have conversations with the leadership, ask them, I'm here to support you. I'm really, truly here to make your life easier. Most leaders like to hear that, and then they open up, right? And then when it comes to the conversation, they really openly tell you what they would appreciate, what they need. Then you need to deliver if you have that conversation in the end, you say yes, and then afterwards, there's nothing in the delivery you will need to start then all over again. So in the end, I think it's getting the entry towards your leadership that they open up and they tell you what they need and how to work together, and how you can make a difference together, and then you need to deliver then you build your trust. This is how you then establish the relationship, and also the the working mode, and also how you can make a difference, because you cannot make the difference if you don't get this part established. You Hey,
Chris Rainey 1:14
Stephanie, welcome to the show. How are you
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 1:15
very well? Thank you. It's good to be here again. Good to see you. Chris. I
Chris Rainey 1:20
can't believe when we spoke last or this week, earlier in the week. How time has flown by since you joined us? Yes, how like it seems like yesterday we were having a conversation when you was at Nokia, and he and here you are. So how, how are things, first and foremost? How are you? Very
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 1:39
well, I can second you. I feel the same. It goes Time goes fast. Well, especially when you're having fun and lots of challenges and things. So not very well, I have to say, very well. Thank you, amazing.
Chris Rainey 1:51
Tell everyone about the new role and also the business. In case people aren't aware of the brand,
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 1:58
yeah. So Oslo Mittal is one of the world's leading steel producer and mining company, and Europe about the largest steel producer, among the largest in Americas, and also having a heavy footprint also in Asia, India as well. So we have about nine operating units. We're making about 62 billion revenue. We have about 100, close to 130,000 employees. And we have steel production, so manufacturing and in 15 countries, and we are producing finished, high quality, finished and semi finished steel. And then one of our operating units is also the iron ore mines. We are also up to 60% user our own produce iron ore. So as you can see, it's heavy manufacturing. It's all over the world, a lot of employees, biggest proportion, though, on on the blue color side. But then also we have, next to manufacturing and production. Of course, we have R and D as well, because technology, how you produce deal and makes into new technologies for the future, makes the big difference. So we have future rd facilities as well. So yes, that's about Alpha meta. So I hope you have heard about us. That's where I
Chris Rainey 3:36
am now, and your current role, your EAP, HR, is that right? Yes.
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 3:41
So I'm heading the the human resources function globally for the group. Yeah, it's called here, EAP, PHR, so it's basically the CHR all role for the group.
Chris Rainey 3:53
Yes, amazing. Oh, congratulations. So it's probably 99% of people listening have probably walked through a building that's been built via Salim atau steel. Yeah, it's probably hard not to Yeah, exactly,
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 4:08
you know. So you find them in constructions and washing machines. Of course. Take the look at all the cars out there, right? There are numerous ways of where you use steel, where you might not daily think about. And it was nice to learn also that steel is a product or a material that you can recycle endlessly. And so before I joined this new industry, for me, I wasn't so aware of it. You take things for granted, right? But now that you learn about it and see where it's all being used, that has been a fascinating learning journey for me as well, to learn more about the material.
Chris Rainey 4:49
Yeah, that's nothing I did, to be honest. Now you now you've said it out loud. That's something I've never really thought about until you said that, but you're Yeah, and I suppose it goes to the. The quote that you have behind you, smarter skills for people. So, so when you first joined the business, the journey, what's been the main focus for you and the team?
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 5:17
Now, you know, I came from Nokia, so technology infrastructure company. So it was a whole new world going into manufacturing, steel production, mines. Everything was new to me. So the number one for me, also in this transitioning coming from a telecom technology company, was really to make sure I understand the business, learn about the business. And I had a big advantage in the beginning. I could take some time to travel the world. And you can imagine these steel production facilities, they are often quite remotely and you have to travel the whole world to to understand where they are, how they produce deal, what are the issues? How does it work? How do we make money, right? So that's the key thing to understand. And I was lucky that I my predecessor was here, and we had a good hand over, and he made some room so that I could travel. So I started building up my relationships, my new network, and really try to deep dive, listen, listen, listen, learn, learn, learn, learn. That was really what I did in the first couple of months. And then after four months, the first thing I started doing with my new team and with the HR and and the business was to create a, again, a people strategy, right? What is the direction? Where do you want to go? What is important? How do we get there? So that was one of the first thing, also, to make sure the whole company understands. Not, what's the HR functional strategy? No, what is the people strategy for the company? And that was helpful also for me, because after the introduction period and deep diving and learning everything to them really say, okay, that's also my North Star, right where to bring the group, where to concentrate on, what is the strategy here, what's the direction the HR function should go after, and what matters to the company and its people? Because people make the difference. And so I spent then lots of time on really developing this together with my team, so that we would have a good, strong people strategy that would guide us then for the next three years, next we did, and now I'm already in the third year, and it's time about renewing and you're still
Chris Rainey 7:35
smiling, you're still smiling. So that's good. We spoke earlier in the week about the we hear a lot of people talk about, you need to understand the business, right? Yeah. What does it truly mean? Let's break this down for everyone. When you when we talk about, you need to understand the business. It's beyond just this is how we make money, and this is our industry, right? It's way deeper than that as well. Could you break that down and then share practically how you go about doing that? You already mentioned one thing, which is getting out the office, traveling, going to the sites, meeting those leaders. But could you share when you've done this many times right before in your career, how you really, truly get to understand the business and how, and then how that informs your strategy moving forward? Yeah,
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 8:24
I think that's very key, right? But as you said, it starts with you have to understand the business. How do we make our money and how? What are the impacting, influencing factors, externally and also internally, so that you really get a good understanding, because you will be a contributor to the performance of the company. So you need to understand how we're making the money and what's influencing all these different processes, and how can you contribute as a HR function. So you need to understand not just how we run the business and how we make money, but also what's the strategy of the business, and where does the business want to go to? And because you need to translate that business strategy and their plans into the appropriate HR applications, HR solutions, HR and people strategy. And in order to be translating it, you need to really, for me, and that's what I did, or tried to do in the beginning, extremely, is to spend time with the business, be on the ground, be where it happens, to observe and to learn what does really matter. And because you shouldn't, also not come up with solutions where you think, okay, one size fits all, because you may have depends on the company you're in, but you may have different segments, different business units, different operation they may have different needs also, or they are at different levels, or the there are different modes of the business, or they're changing their mode, and understanding that helps. To then support the business, enable the business, because we are enablers, right? We are contributors, enablers. But we cannot do that without fully understanding so the deep dive for me is quite critical to talk to leaders to be there. And you know, I was visiting a remote, very remote mine and very northern Canada, there's almost nothing than the mine, right? And I went on and did a tour on the these huge vehicles that will go around the mine to really understand what does it mean when you work there. What does it mean for the workers also, what does it mean for the people to really get a real picture and then talking to the leaders, what's bothering them? What kind of solutions do they need? And I think that's also part for me to understand the business. It's that builds up also your credibility and your business acumen, knowing the numbers, knowing where the business is, but then also in practice, very pragmatically, even to be there and understand what would help now, because sometimes in HR, we develop solutions and don't make the count on the business, we might find this is the most fanciest solution, for some good reasons that would serve us in HR, for example, yeah, but leaders, because they day to day job is not doing HR, right? They do some of the processes once in a while, or they lead, and some lead on top of their actual day job, right? We need to understand that challenge so everything needs to be easy for them. Shouldn't take up too much time. Needs to be clear, not too bureaucratic. So there are a lot of things to consider and and I think that's also part of understanding the business. If we don't understand that part, you will see that processes get side tracked, not followed, you know, or they don't believe there's any value add. But HR should be there to add value. And if we want to stay relevant for the business, we need to do exactly that. So in this is, for me, something with it takes time to learn, right? And you need to remind yourself, even along the way, sometimes is what we're doing now, really serving the business. And is this helpful? Will they regard that as useful? And so I think in the end, it's, it's again and again, it's about that, yeah. So, yeah, no, I like that application, right approaches. That's part for me. Put yourself in the leader's shoes, if you would be a leader in the business, and you have to, you know, deliver all these things, and you have a hectic, busy schedule, and you need to lead a team on top. Where would you focus, and how would you focus? And how can we help leaders with the right tool boxes? But also, at the same time, do we understand that some things need to be done at ease and come with solutions they would love and that would really help them, and not just be a time consuming thing that they don't see the value of. Yeah.
Chris Rainey 13:09
HR has a tendency to create solutions for themselves or what they think. What is one of the things I've noticed over the last 10 years of doing this is, is, is the leaders that are really successful, especially when they join a business, is they do exactly what you just described, and they always say to me, Chris, there's no easy way to do this. You need to get out of the office. You need to go visit the sites. You know. There was one leader I spoke to that said, Chris, I've been on the road for a whole year, and I've visited every part of the world, every location, every manufacturing site you know, you know, similar to yourself, where you said I was in the mines, right? You were in the trucks like you really, and that's the only really way that you truly understand, because you could talk about it, you can read about it, you know. But you then being into one of those giant excavators in the mine, speaking to them on the ground level. There's no way of there's no shortcut to doing that. And I see some leaders who join businesses, who come in, they they in, in the head office, you know, they have zoom calls and conversations, but and then they start to make change, and all of a sudden they have an uphill battle because they haven't built the relationships, they don't have the buy in. They don't truly understand what it really means. They don't understand the cultural nuances across the different regions, and it becomes a disaster. Quite, quite frankly. I
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 14:36
mean, especially for me, I came in new right? So it next to learning the business was about developing and creating your new relationships, your new network, right? Nokia was so many years. I knew the business, I knew the network. I had my network. I knew the leaders, but then you don't know anybody, so you really have to establish your next relationships and listen and that's all. So it's not so easy to build that up virtually. Of course, at some point when you have met them and you then it can continue virtually. But I think especially in the beginning, but also throughout the year, you need to be able to see them face to face, and show your face, show your interest, and be out there to also see what is changing. But the relationship building was the next part I spend a lot of time on. Otherwise, also they need to trust you as a HR leader in order to come to you and develop solutions. And that's not possible if you have not built up your your trustful relationships with them, either in your career
Chris Rainey 15:41
you, what would you say is like, and then for everyone listening advice, what would be your advice of how to best practically nurture those relationships? Is this, for some specific questions that you've developed over the years, that you ask these leaders to help build that relationship? Is there a specific way that you reach out just really, just to help people listening of like, this is my approach of how I do that, and how to build a relationship, and how to reach out to them.
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 16:09
When you have conversations with them and really ask them, okay, I'm here to support you. I'm not here to bring you burden and more processes. I'm really, truly here to make your life easier. Most leaders like to hear that, and then they open up, right? And I think that that's what you need, also a bit of an entry. And then when it comes to the conversation, they really openly tell you what they would appreciate, what they need. Then you need to deliver if you have that conversation in, in the end, you say yes, and you you have a good understanding. But then afterwards, there's nothing in the delivery, or they don't feel the difference afterwards, you know, we you will need to start then all over again, and you have probably played out your first opportunity to building the trust, right? So in the end, I think it's getting the entry towards your leadership that they open up and they tell you what they need and how to work together and how you can make a difference together. And then you need to, basically, you need to deliver. It's all about that as well. So and then, you know, then you build your trust. You say, Okay, that worked well. And then you know, they come more and more often, or they count on you, or they need your advice. And then this is how you then establish the relationship, and also the the working mode, and also how you can make a difference, because you cannot make the difference if you don't get this part established somehow.
Chris Rainey 17:45
Yeah. How do you deal with the conflict? Because inevitably, you're not going to be able to solve everyone's problems, right? And there's going to be conversations you have with leaders where you can't do that, right? The thing that they want Are you pretty transparent early on with them, or do you wake and sort of come back a bit later? Because everyone's gonna have their own agenda. They're gonna have their own needs, and you can't solve every single problem. How do you approach that? Yeah,
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 18:13
and that's very naturally of the challenge right to come and I think you have to address it early on, you say, Look, I have sometimes have that, can you make an exception here? Can you make this exception? Exactly, yeah. And then I say, look, I would love to I understand fully where you're coming from, but when I make this exception, that will trigger even more exceptions, and then the next business unit will be clearly unhappy, and then we mess it up, and that is then a no one's business interest. So I need to give you AI, need to pledge for your understanding as well, which we will try to find good solutions. But sometimes there will be a natural, yeah, pause, or, you know, not, possibility, yeah, because you cannot always go for everything. It's a matter of explaining that. And most, mostly people say, Okay, I understand. That's fine. That's fine, you know? And then they move on. I think they just need to understand what it means, and not just a no, you know, that was, I think, like in the past, very beginning of my HR, times it was very process oriented, very controlling police like and just say, No, this won't work, right? We cannot do this. And then it was left there. And I think that's exactly what we should avoid. You know? It's the why, the why is important. Why are we doing this? Why are we not doing this? And then the explanation behind it, and people will naturally understand it when we are open and transparent about and when we have a good explanation. Sometimes they might not be happy, but they will still understand and it's okay.
Chris Rainey 19:50
Yeah, you're right because you're the open and transparent approach. They may not get the answer they want, but it will still end with building trust. Yeah. Because you were so, you know, rather than saying no and just not getting back to them, you took the time to share. This is what it means. This is the why as well. And a lot of people miss that part, because if you do that, if you don't do that, you've just broken that trust and lost that relationship, you know. And it takes time to then rebuild
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 20:18
that takes more time, right? Once you lost it, it's very difficult to regain absolutely, yeah, but it's also not always easier. These are the typical challenges, somehow, where's the balance? And then, when you have so many things on your plate and you run crazy, you sometimes forget to come back to someone and really explaining everything carefully, right? These things happen, yeah, and
Chris Rainey 20:42
these are, this is why I wanted to talk about this with you, because we don't really talk about this enough on the podcast. And these are the things that you don't learn. You know, you learn on the journey. There's no, there's no playbook, really, for this. You like you just said, I did this in the past the wrong way. I learned from it, and now I actually take the time so you learned the hard way, right by doing that. So I wanted to share that with the audience so they understand that, what were some of the things that you during your listening tour? You said you said you was away for a couple of months, you know, traveling all over, what was some of the feedback and that you got that's now informed your strategy moving forward, and was there anything that surprised you when you on that tour in terms of the feedback that you got?
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 21:29
I think it's mostly feedback is always about we could be closer to the business, even better understand right in terms of certain policies, processes, or there's not a good understanding even what we have and what I've observed also in my previous HR role, we do one training, and when we assume everybody knows, and we did a great job, but honestly, no, we assume too much. Usually, leaders don't pay the same attention just because they let's say, let's take a simple example, like salary increase process. They tend to it once a year, if you do your annual review of merit increases, once a year, right? So they need to be trained every year. They will not remember, just because they did it once, right? So I think we assume an HR, because we're dealing with all this all the time, we assume it's clear, or we train people, and then we can just move forward, and then we are surprised it doesn't work. And, you know, leaders just simply don't understand. And you know, and that's exactly also coming back to this business understanding that's part of understanding their role. We need to repeat. We need to train again. We need to do the training in the way that is obviously easy to understand and not too detailed, because we are all expert in our role. So we would like to display a lot of expertise and how we do it and why it's like this. But leaders don't care. It should be pragmatic, easy, and they need to do it for a certain purpose. They just want to meet the purpose and get over it and move on. But sometimes we over complicate things. So it's, I think, all about making it, yes, simplifying it. Simplify the process. Make it easy to understand, easy to execute, done. You know, that's what leaders usually like. And train as much as you can, and train again, and do it in a way that leaders find that useful and easy to adapt, easy to train. And then they're, they're self sufficient. Train them to make themselves sufficient, but don't over assume, okay, one training will, you know, make it all, yeah, I think that's a typical things we we're then so, so disappointed. I remember we once rewrote a travel policy and send it to all the leaders in the world. And then next week, someone asked a question, where we say, Oh, we just did the training. We just rolled it out. How can that be? But I think that's, again, we have to put ourselves into the leader's shoes if you don't really need that. And honestly, I do the same. I don't read every email if I, of course, if I don't, you know, I have no case of mobility or traveling right now, so I wouldn't look at it because I don't have a case right now. Why spending time on it? You get to the topics when you need to right or when you have a case. And we think always, we need to train everybody on everything all the time. I wouldn't do that either. You just overwhelm people who are at certain points of times and their business life don't actually need it. You should get to it when they need it.
Chris Rainey 24:42
Yes, I think that's where technology can help us right in terms of creating a customized experience that we is we, in the past, to do that at scale. We just couldn't do it right the manual lift to be able to create a customized communication plans, customized. Training as well with technology now, and especially as we start to move towards skills based organizations, we can start to segment and be more intentional about our communication strategy and training to ensure that you're really sending things to people in the moment that matters for them and for the organization, and that's relevant to them and the challenges that they're facing. Because in the past, I remember when I was a leader, to your point, I'd get all of the emails about everything, and maybe 10% relates to me and my job, and then you just tune out and you don't even look at it, because you're like, well, most of this doesn't apply. Doesn't even apply to Chris, and then the HR team is like, why haven't you done this? Or my boss? And I'm like, Where was that? Because I didn't even see it right. To your point as well, right? We would net. We would never treat our customers that way Exactly. Imagine, yeah, imagine sending our customers updates on all of the products that they don't have. You would be unacceptable to do that. So we really
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 26:07
would only train on the products they're interested in or buying, right? We wouldn't do the whole thing, yeah, so I think that's the same we need to do internally, right, but more tailor made, and I guess our data, data quality, and using the right technologies as helping us now with this more tailor made approach and knowing which kind of groups are using what, or needing to use what. So I think this is what we're working on most of the time, that it gets more tailor made, but it doesn't mean that we customize the systems too much, but that we just use our data Banner as well.
Chris Rainey 26:47
Yeah. Is that in 100% Well, what you have an additional challenge, like many that I speak to, where you also have the challenge of having a huge population of frontline Absolutely. How you ensuring you can reach them, you know, when they're in a mine, right, or driving a truck or, you know, or in the manufacturing sites, because that must be a significant challenge.
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 27:13
And technology, again, matters, because having and that mobile phone, almost everybody has to have your applications on the phone, or to have additional How do you say facilities where they can go and have a working stations. You know, there are several things you can do and but the key thing is that you try to understand what would be the best way for them. What would be the easiest thing for the workers or for the front line people? Is it their mobile phone applications? Or do they like to come in and get a special facility just for that so they can use it like your internet cafe, right? You do it internally so they can use it. How much are they interested in, would they go after their Yeah, working time after the shift? Would they prefer to do differently? So it's, it's really working with them together to find the right solutions. So listening to people, what would make the difference? What would be an easy way for them to get to their training, for example, to get to a survey, because we have, you know, engagement surveys, like everybody does. How do we what's our approach? And it's good to again, like we listen to the leaders, we listen to the employees. What would be the easy way for them to take the right tool or the right way? Yeah, to to have them involved, because the involvement is very critical.
Chris Rainey 28:45
What's working best for you now? Like, do you have an app that you've built for this? Is it all in one centralized location? Because that's a challenge, right? You may have, like your that's a big
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 28:55
challenge, to be honest, because we are huge and we are very fragmented. We are not we are very decentralized, and in many of our approaches. So that means we really do that a little bit more, depending on the site and depending on the country now even more sites, even that means that you could find various solutions across right? And then when you have a lot of new color workers and frontline workers, you do a lot together, also with the unions or works councils. So even those approaches need to be aligned. So that means you would probably have a variety and a large portfolio of solutions. But then in the end, of course, you have the same survey, but you may have different ways. And there could be even one small unit somewhere in the world that still uses EXO file, or more traditional, could be. And some does it very you know, use the best tools so but I. And also that you not to get upset when we don't have everything the same. But the key thing is that you get the results, and what the results tells you
Chris Rainey 30:09
you're right, because even some leaders I speak to you, say, Chris, some of our manufacturing sites, they still just want the whiteboard, the billboard, the billboard like, you know, in the office, with the notice, the notice board, like we talk about apps and technology, of course, very important. But some of those people, when they clock into work, they want to be able to just see a traditional board with all of the updates and information on and like they've seen that that's that's still with a QR code, maybe, that they can scan. Yeah, those things still still work. Chris, we don't always have to go straight to fancy new app and technology. I've had other companies who in the environments of the manufacturing sites, have, like, their own sort of podcast that plays audio into the manufacturing sites and they give updates through the speakers inside the facility, which is pretty cool. And they like, kind of do announcements for the company, and so people could just hear it whilst they're working, like just some very creative ways of making sure people can get the information that they need, which is super interesting. How about the generational side? We've got, we've got the most generations in the workforce that we've ever had at the same time. How are you thinking about the generation shift and also the knowledge transfer that needs to come with that as well?
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 31:34
Yeah, you are hitting one of, one of the key topics we're focusing on right now, because we really see now, when we look at the demographics, at our workforce, how it's changing, right? And that means now the generation of the baby boomers go more and more, yeah, into retirement, and that's a big issue, because we have a lot of people that have been long time with Oslo metal right I had very Yeah, proud times, and lots of knowledge, lots of experience, and we really wondering how we capture their knowledge, and how you know, what happens if they just walk out of the door with all this experience, how we capture that experience, how we have a very heavy focus on succession planning, for example, but it's just more than that. It's really how to make sure we capture that now, how experience and the you know, the tips that they have, and how this so we looked a lot of knowledge transfer tools and the help of AI on the market. We did several pilots last year because we have also all ranges of roles to capture the ones, front line workers, blue collar leaders, you know, you name it, experts, no matter where. So all of them we need to capture what's the easiest way and what feels practical for those who are leaving also, and this is something we have not finalized completely, but this is one of the big topics that we're looking at. And the next thing is, okay, the needs of the new generations, you know, have different focus, and they find different things important. And what does it mean to the leader? Our leaders, they usually need to lean the whole spectrum. Right. They need to lead Baby Boomers, Gen Z, Gen Y, everybody with all their facets of what is important to them and how to retain them, how to develop right? Because everybody has a slightly different mindset, maybe also nowadays, towards work and what work should provide. And therefore we are talking a lot, and that source will be part of the next, say, alignment of the people strategy going forward, right? How do we really make sure we're able to meet all these different needs. And how do you also take our leaders with us to make sure that they are different leadership styles, how to address things differently as well? So that's one of the big, big things now for us and to deep dive in with the pilots. Now, how do we capture this? Now, how? Yeah,
Chris Rainey 34:21
break that down a little bit, because we spoke about this before, a little bit. So you have some of the traditional methods, right, where you've got people that leave that then become part of your What did you name it before you spoke to me? What do you call them when they leave, the you mentioned, when they leave and they retire, they become part of a community that you have, I can't like alumni. Yeah, exactly. Sorry. My brain was not working. I was trying to think of alumni. That's exactly
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 34:53
what I was trying to think of. Well, that's nice. Actually, I had my very good experience when I joined the company and I did. At a tour about the factory and the the production side, and some of the retirees, they are so proud of what they have achieved and how to produce steel and how it works, and what's the blast furnace and how it works. And they are voluntarily come and then do the tours. That way they get themselves still acquainted with the latest updates, and get somehow still involved in the business, to some extent so and then at the same time, we can use their knowledge, and by explaining very easily and well what is for newcomers, for people who take over how to use them, and usually they're very proud that they can give in and step in as an expert and transmit their knowledge. That's one way of doing we have done that here and there quite successfully. But we're also trying to see using tools with the help of AI, where we are questioning them before they go into retirement, with questions about, okay, what has been your role? What made your role successful? When you got stuck something? Who would you call first? What have been emergencies, situations that appear? How do you do this? Really going down deep into what makes this role successful. And how do you help yourself, besides the normal job description processes all this right? What are the questions? Right? Questions to ask and capture that, and then, using the whole AI, put together all the information we have and have have this one more documented, and keep the knowledge so we can more easily transfer it. Yeah,
Chris Rainey 36:47
I'm really excited about that, because we're doing the same thing here with Atlas in terms of creating agents. AI agents to your point where we ask the HR leaders and their teams and their CEO ease a specific set of questions, capturing that information, training the agent, and all of those intangibles, right, that you don't know, that those individuals have captured over their entire you know, 2030, years, of the advice, the little, small details and the lessons that they learned, or the way that this specific machine operates that You don't know and you don't see in the manual, right as well. Those are all the things that you can have a AI note taker during present, during those conversations, or just asking those do you can train the AI to ask the individual those questions so they could do it themselves without having a human involved. So maybe there's an idea that, hey, when they're towards the end of their retirement, you give them access to the tool, and for the next few months before they retire, every week or month, they get a couple more questions, and you start to extract that knowledge and experience. And you can imagine, if you did that at scale across the organization, how incredible it would be to be able to retain that information. So I'm really excited that you're experimenting. Yeah, and this
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 38:12
is so enriching also, because you get more and more of the experience captured, and then everything is enriching itself. I would love to have more agents, also than even, like of cloning some of key experts as an agent. We've
Chris Rainey 38:28
all had, you know, we've all had employees, if anyone's listening right now, in our teams, that when they left, you know that they left with way more than just what was on the CV, because they just knew how certain things work and where certain things were, and again, even relationships, right? Even part of that knowledge capture should be questions around, who are the key people within your network? Yeah,
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 38:52
yeah, right. Would you call when this happens? Yes, exactly. Call, right? None of the processes, none.
Chris Rainey 38:59
Yeah, which is none of the processes is not on the job spec. It's just purely learned through years of experience, and now we have the technology to do that, and that's exactly what we're doing of Atlas copilot, that if there's someone in your comp and Ben's team who maybe is going to leave, extract all of that information from that individual, and then that way the team, not just the individual, the whole HR team, has access to those insights. So helpful. Yeah, so I'm really excited about this, to see how that evolves, and that can still, that can still then evolve into that alumni, because that alumni continues to add to that so that there should be a way of integrating them more into that ecosystem, yeah,
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 39:45
because there's no silver bullet that covers all right, you need to have a bit of a portfolio of solutions. And one is really to have the mentoring, the coaching, all of that, having someone right, all that is still there and still. Important. But sometimes, when you have a lot of volume to cover, of course, then the technology and the AI possibilities really kick in and make it easier, and then you can serve it, you know, on a much broader scale, which is super helpful, and I find it also super exciting, yeah, to have this technology now at hand and AI, you know, to build these skills internally and then also make best usage of it, because that that's what we need. Also, going forward, we cannot cover it just on that traditional side of solutions. We need to really adapt the latest technologies. And AI is one of them that we should really use, yeah,
Chris Rainey 40:41
and you've got 100,000 employees right across multiple parts of the world. So one of the things that I love playing around with is the fact now that you can do what we just described in any language, right? So already that's amazing, the fact that that knowledge in any land, in any language, and then you can actually ask the AI based on, you know, the questions you're asking to create you a learning pathway to help you get to that level that you need to be, or learn, whatever that may be you're talking about. And it can generate the learning so that that that is the game changer, to be able to create that customized learning experience based on the current knowledge we have, the where we're going in the future, and all of the knowledge from the past that those leaders have gathered. You bring that all together in one ecosystem. We've never been able to do that before.
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 41:36
Yeah, and I have to say on this one, one of my experiences, also, you need to sometimes have a bit of readiness of your own workforce. I give an example. We try to use AI coaching, which we started as a pilot, and really try to have it for leaders and AI and everybody's interested available to use AI coaching and the HR, where we had a look at it, what it could bring to us, and also the leaders, we were fascinated. But I have to say, when you really roll it out, even some leaders are not yet used to use the best out of these opportunities. It's so new sometimes, and AI is new. To break that first hurdle of getting acquainted, using it, how to use it, it's new. And this is also something we thought, oh, this will be easy. We just roll it out. You have your fingertip, and here we go. But not always so easy. Sometimes I've seen that people how to use these tools that we give them at hand. It's kind of they need to get used to this new way of working, utilizing the broad scale of opportunities that some AI tools bring. And so this I also learned, okay, it's not so easy, even for yourself. Use in the beginning, you use a chat GPT here and there. Then you use it when you see, oh, this works very well. It's quite cool. Then you start using it more. It really needs that a little bit. And if you don't have made that first step and you have understood how you can best usage of it, you maybe stop right? Others try out more. And so this is something also we've seen, okay, that can bring so much, but you need to have the readiness of your leaders, of your workforce, sometimes as well, for all these great, fascinating tools and what they could bring. But still, it's a change also, which, like every change, you need to accompany them to go through that.
Chris Rainey 43:48
Yeah, it's hardly ever. It's hardly ever. The technology challenge is more of the cultural change challenge. So it's very Evan the technology is never going to be the tough part. Anyone can buy software and roll out software, but you're right, unless you have a very clear strategy of how you're bringing people on the journey also explaining the why. This is why we are to your point in the beginning of this conversation, and this is what it means for you. I've seen companies and CHROs like yourself buy 1000s of licenses for all different types of no tools, AI, tools and software, and it just falls flat on its face, and they don't get the adoption. And they're like, why not? Surely people should just understand, right? No, yeah, they totally obvious, right? They don't understand. And also, one of the big pieces of advice I'd say to anyone listening, which I hear over and over and over again, and it was came up during the conference I went to in New York a few weeks ago. Whatever tools you invest in, they have to show up in the flow of work. So if you have a tool. Like a AI coach, if it doesn't show up inside of your team's communication environment or your slack so that that individual can use it in the flow of work, don't invest in it, because you're going to have a real uphill battle to try and get people to use it, because they're going to have to go to another place. And we all have enough tools, enough apps. There's too many already fatigue. So the coaching tool that you do you mentioned, I don't know which one it was, but if that doesn't show up, do you use teams? Yeah, we do use teams. If that didn't show up in the teams environment, which is where your team already goes for communication, I wouldn't invest in it, because you're going to have this battle of like, you have to go over here to get your AI coaching, and it's just going to the adoption rate is just going to fall flat. That's
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 45:52
a normal human thing, right? Human, I wouldn't say laziness is the wrong word. How to say they want to be it quick, easy to use, not to go extra, right? Because that eats up time. Everything needs to be nicely integrated and following just whatever you do easily and that way to make it easy to apply. It's exactly what you say. It needs to be integrated. If you have to go to a different place for that, it's already one step to my when you click on something, you want to get something done. You don't want to have 10 links until you get there. But two, yeah, two is enough. Otherwise people will not use it as a bit. How humans take also, and that's we need to have in our mind when we find new solutions or introduce new new Yeah, new things with
Chris Rainey 46:40
the AI, with the AI company for the coaching that you mentioned, I don't expect you to say the name, but did it show up in the flow of work? Or is it somewhere else they had to go,
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 46:50
yeah, and the beginning was somewhere extra, and that's what we're changing right now, exactly that that we built into the natural way of choosing it and applying it, because otherwise it won't have a big chance, right? No matter how good it is. Yes, it could be amazing, very, very naturally kicking in what you're doing anyhow, and it needs to be exactly there.
Chris Rainey 47:11
Yeah, amazing. That's great to hear. Yeah, as well. I know we've gone off way, off topics to talk about many things, but I really enjoyed the conversation. I think last question for you, as we move forward, what are you most excited about? You know, when you look ahead, in front of you and both challenges and opportunities, what are you most excited
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 47:37
about? Well, this is a bit typical being in HR role, right? I'm there's so many things, but for me, it's always positive, because we can have understanding business people how to bring these two things together. It's, for me, always a beautiful challenge. It's in you can have a really impact. So we need to step back and take, you know, regularly, our balcony moments, and see how we stay relevant. How can we have impact what does matter, and how do we execute on what does matter? And I think with that, we will be actually no matter how it goes and what challenges come externally, environmentally, politically, internally, the business itself, it will be always about the same, and the challenges will change. But you know, for me, there's a high belief that to do the right things when you understand all these points and really always strive for making an impact with the people, because people are should be always at the heart of everything we do with our people. You will not make the right choices or get the most of what you want to achieve. So for me, that always matters. And that's so great about HR roles. I think,
Chris Rainey 48:58
yeah, I love that your the balcony moments, you know. And I think, I think we could all do better at also scheduling those moments. Sure, for sure, I need to, I need to be, I need to get, I think you have to be intentional about making time for those balcony moments, because otherwise you can get lost,
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 49:16
yeah, and you just absorb that. It's easy you get, you know, you have so many things to do, and the plate is full, and you're running crazy, yeah, and you want to deliver, deliver, deliver. And sometimes, you know, you sharpen your knife, go on the balcony moment, and then you better, you deliver better again. But since we have sometimes so many things on our desk, yeah, it's hard, right? When you're so absorbed into the day to day business into operations to to really make room, okay, especially in like my role, right? You have to do that, otherwise you just absorbed all the time and don't do your right reflections and but sometimes hard, harder to do that, sometimes less, harder, but it's important that we do it regularly. Yeah,
Chris Rainey 50:00
well, I started doing that maybe about six months ago. Every every Wednesday I have a few hours in my calendar, and it's a non negotiable, and it's blocked. It's completely blocked. The best if you really make time for that, yeah, and it's just like, there's the only, the only thing I'm doing that time is not what I'm not working in the business. I'm working on the business, and I take a step back and just no distractions for a few hours on Wednesday. I have no meetings on Wednesdays, and it just gives me the opportunity just to reflect, because I'm when, because I'm so in the in the deep end every day that it's really hard to take that time. Yeah, so now I schedule it. My coach says, like, Chris, you need to schedule it, because if you don't schedule it, it's not going to happen. You're going to find some other reason to do a meeting. There's going to be something else that comes up as well. So maybe you don't, maybe you don't need it every week, like me, but you should definitely take the time. Yeah.
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 50:55
I mean, we even learn that in every time management. Course, we maybe want, right? You need to take your concentration time. You need time for that and plan for it consciously. Plan for that upfront, right? Don't give it a choice of being overruled. But really, block time. I think it's very clear, doesn't you don't always work, like I do a lunch blocker every day, and always
Chris Rainey 51:21
choosing it. Me too, me too. I've locked it. I've locked it. I still, I still end up having a meeting doing something. It's terrible. We need to get better at that. One of the CHROs yesterday, we did a chro. We have a CPO, 100 group, where every week, we meet as with a group of Chief people, officers, and we have a specific topic. So yesterday, we had around 60 chief people, officers from all over the world, and it was all around anxiety at work, and how do we help with the well being and build resilience within ourselves as CPOs, but also our teams and our managers and super little practical things that like everyone was sharing, like, from small details to, we no longer do one hour meetings. We it has to be 45 minutes. So we have 15 minutes to actually either decompress and leave or just talk about things outside of work and just be human for a moment, like the simple, simple rituals like like that. Or, you know, no meeting days, etc, etc. So people can really go deep on their work without distractions. And it was really good to hear all the different Citro share, both personally and professionally, like hearing actual practical things. But one of the surprises that I had, I shouldn't I maybe I wasn't surprised, but many of the CPOs we're talking about, CPS are the biggest companies in the world. Companies in the world. They feel alone and very, very unsupported in terms of their own mental health and well being. So even more reason why we need to take time on the balcony. Part of that balcony conversation should be taking care of yourself.
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 52:58
That's where it starts, right? You need a lot of strengths, and dealing with people topics eats up a lot of energy, so we need to make sure that resilience that we need, where does it come from, right? And everybody needs to listen to themselves. What is it that works for me could be very different, but that's definitely something also I learned. You have to balance out your own energy and see how you recover, what's your mental health being like and what is needed for that could be very different from person to person, but that's key, because in HR, you have people topics. People topics are never black and white. It's all about 1000 shades of gray. Yeah, everybody's unique. That's the beautiful thing about people also. But then, you know, to understand and deal with that all the time, it's asking a lot from oneself, and there's a lot of energy needed for that, yeah,
Chris Rainey 53:52
and it's tough, you know, I can never say I know this, because I've never, I've never done the job, but from speaking to your peers, it's quite hard not to absorb all of that energy as well, right? It's difficult to do that, but listen so much fun. Thank you so much for coming on the show. I appreciate you. I'm so happy that you're doing well as well. I know you're still early on the journey and there's a lot of work ahead of you, but you should be proud of what you've achieved so far in the team. Thanks, Chris as well. So good to be here again. Yeah, good to see you. And let's all check in again future and see how you get it on. Yeah, that'll be our balcony moment together. Yeah, exactly.
Unknown Speaker 54:36
That should be our reflection our balcony.
Chris Rainey 54:41
Wish you all the best. Thanks so much. Excellent.
Stephanie Werner-Dietz 54:43
All the best. Thank you, Chris, good to see you. Good to see you. Bye. You.
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