Why Your Recognition Strategy Isn’t Working (And How to Fix It)
In this episode of the HR Leaders Podcast, we speak with KeyAnna Schmiedl, Chief Human Experience (People) Officer at Workhuman, about reimagining recognition in the age of AI.
KeyAnna shares how Workhuman is using AI to enhance - not replace - human connection, from just-in-time recognition to personalized career support. She explains why recognition must go beyond rewards, how to build cultures where people feel truly seen, and why strategic investment in recognition is a business imperative, not a nice-to-have.
🎓 In this episode, KeyAnna discusses:
The ROI of recognition and its cultural impact
Why recognition is more than just rewards and bonuses
Creating just-in-time, personalized employee experiences
How AI enhances human connection instead of replacing it
Why trust, authenticity, and care should anchor HR strategy
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KeyAnna Schmiedl 0:00
I think we're all used to those tools that are like, Hey, you were supposed to do this yesterday. And you're like, great, when we think about those just in time things, the hardest thing is being a human and trying to deliver to every individual employee that unique experience that just in time needs met, situation that you know skyrockets the NPS scores and has you labeled as best places to work, and one of the ways that we can do that better is by leveraging AI, not to replace the people interaction, but to enhance it, to be able to prompt certain conversations, be it a developmental one, you know, to go in and say, hey, I want to ask somebody to be my mentor. What's the best way for me to go about that? You can do that in our own tool, but you can also say, Great, I really want to work on, let's say, my technical skills in coding. Who are some great folks for me to reach out to? And What's always interesting to me is, like, not the five names that it gives you that you're like, yeah, that's who I would have thought of, but the other eight that it gives you that you go, Oh, I don't really know them very well, and so maybe I might want to use this as an opportunity to meet somebody else in the company, and then it further builds those connections. And just continuing to have that feeling of I work in a place with other humans, and having that be enhanced and and reimagine by that partnership with AI is something that I think is really cool, that we're going To see more value out of in the future. You
Chris Rainey 1:40
again, and welcome to the show.
KeyAnna Schmiedl 1:45
How are you? I'm doing. All right. Thanks. How are you? I'm all right.
Chris Rainey 1:49
So my really, first, really important question, so everyone always tells me and gives me a lot of heat about my plants behind me, sure is your one real let's be honest. Come on, don't lie.
KeyAnna Schmiedl 2:03
Feeling a little plastic. I'm gonna tell you if it was real, it would probably be brown on the edges and leaning over
Speaker 1 2:10
both of us. Yeah, way too good, don't they like? It's like, just saying, if you want to know where to get plants that look real,
Chris Rainey 2:18
yeah, come here. Yeah. This is the embarrassing. I was embarrassing. I was interviewing IKEA CHRO, and she was like, I like your IKEA plan, because it's literally from IKEA. And I was like, Cool. Thanks for Thanks for that. That's fun.
KeyAnna Schmiedl 2:34
Cool. You're like, so will you send me two more to really fill things in here?
Chris Rainey 2:39
Yeah, exactly. I was like, we I mean, you know what? I wouldn't I'll take an Ikea sponsorship for the podcast. It'd be the most unconventional podcast sponsor ever.
KeyAnna Schmiedl 2:47
Yeah, you can try building the new setup while interviewing people. No, it could be a team building, yeah. So what would happen is that you should be the instructions, and you've got the materials there, and I have to communicate through zoom, to put the thing in the thing, not that thing,
Chris Rainey 3:04
but the rule is, you can't show me any visuals, that's right. So it's just purely we got to work together, you know, clear communication, yeah, yeah. That sounds like my wife again, with me and my wife, yeah, the thing I told you, put it the thing over there, yeah, cool. Thanks. Really appreciate those instructions as well. Actually, I like your Where do you get those shelves from?
KeyAnna Schmiedl 3:30
Behind you, the shelves, the shelves, you know, this is looking like a
Chris Rainey 3:35
Wayfarer, a Wayfair situation, yeah, you know,
KeyAnna Schmiedl 3:38
I do believe that they are IKEA shelves?
Chris Rainey 3:42
Yeah, I had a Wayfarer Citron last week, and we were also my rug, which you can't see, which is offset, is a giant, like, three meter Wayfair rug there as well. I feel like I'm like, just speaking to every guest that's basically kitted out my studio at this point as well.
KeyAnna Schmiedl 3:57
Was it Ryan Gilchrist, no,
Chris Rainey 3:59
it was. I forgot. Oh, god yes.
KeyAnna Schmiedl 4:01
Hey Gulliver, yeah,
Chris Rainey 4:04
yeah, yeah. She was a
KeyAnna Schmiedl 4:07
mentor to me, so I was leading a culture and inclusion at Wayfair.
Chris Rainey 4:12
I love Wayfair because I go on the website, and then I just go down a rabbit hole, and then I'm just like, stop buying
KeyAnna Schmiedl 4:17
stuff. And then you look around and all of a sudden you're like, my entire life is way
Chris Rainey 4:21
fair. I actually accidentally bought two of those same rugs, and it turns up to the studio, and my co founder was like, why do we have two free freak like, four meter by two meter rugs? And I was like, oh, yeah, insulation for sound, obviously, of course, yeah. Well, at some point in the guest people listening, they're probably like, Who are these people? And maybe we should get into the episode as well. Tell everyone a bit more about
KeyAnna Schmiedl 4:46
I mean, this is, I think they will like this just driving home. Yeah, exactly. Listen to this nonsense chatter.
Chris Rainey 4:53
I feel like one of the things I always tried to do when we first started this was bring a bit of fun back to HR. Yeah, along the way, because everyone's, like, so serious, like, you know, I used to listen to, like, these podcasts, and once, and this magazine in the UK is very popular, called the HR magazine. It's very prim and proper. And I was like, Can we have a bit of fun? Oh, is that? Is that part of our policy
KeyAnna Schmiedl 5:15
and proper HR? If we were so, I'm currently in Dublin, I flew in this morning. And if we were in my office, in at home, either in my house or in our Framingham headquarters, you would see me be surrounded by Lego and especially the latest Nike by Lego collab, where you build a dunk. Oh yeah, oh yeah. It's great.
Chris Rainey 5:41
All right, so I shouldn't tell you that our last Citro round table was at Lego in Denmark, and everyone got free Lego from the giant Lego Store, and people were carrying him.
KeyAnna Schmiedl 5:51
Is about how you are ruining my life, past, present and future, and you really don't care about me as your guest because you went to Lego and you should have known that we were going to connect in the future, and I should have been there.
Chris Rainey 6:05
Oh, I don't think our predictive analytics go that far out. I don't think that. I mean, they're pretty good, but
KeyAnna Schmiedl 6:12
it's because you're only working on them at five o'clock in the morning. I need you to work on them at peak
Chris Rainey 6:17
you time. That is my peak time. That's what people don't realize that is peak Chris time. No, no. Like, I'm a my we chain. Like they call us the bat and the bird. So Shane's up early in the morning. I'm the bat. I'm like, super productive at night time. The problem is when I the alarm goes off and I have to wake up and I'm like, oh, it's already daytime outside. But yeah, we'll connect you. So Lauren Schuster, shout out to Lauren, who's listening to good friend. See it to her of Lego. We'll do another one. We'll make sure you come this time. Yeah, my favorite part was when we got introduced to the chief play officer, and I was like, isn't that just the best job title ever? Like I said, I was like, and it's literally exactly what you think it is in the name is that is the job. And I was like, I
KeyAnna Schmiedl 7:06
feel like somebody saw Tom Hanks in big and they said that, and Lego said, done.
Chris Rainey 7:15
Yeah, by the way, you know that just AI, you just aged both of us by that reference. That's right, the younger Gen.
KeyAnna Schmiedl 7:20
Now, I want people to do the math, just looking at our
Chris Rainey 7:22
faces. How does that make sense? What's happening as well? That's a good movie, though. So tell everyone a bit about your role, human. So we haven't even got there yet, like 15 minutes in,
KeyAnna Schmiedl 7:41
all right. So my role, I would say, I guess now it's the second best job title that I've ever heard. But I am the Chief Human Experience Officer at wave, at
Chris Rainey 7:54
what is this podcast three, by the way, what? JC, JC, don't I'm now fired for human don't edit anything out.
KeyAnna Schmiedl 8:03
Okay, so the Chief Human Experience Officer at work. Human, I was previously at Wayfair work. Human, and I love it here. I think what gets me excited about what I do and how I came to do this, this role, and especially at work, human is a very non linear path. I don't like things that make sense. I'm more of a creative pragmatist, where you kind of happen, where you are, and you look around and you go, what kind of an opportunity can I make of this? So the journey to work human started quite a while back, actually, in 2018 maybe early 2019 I attended my first work human live, and I got hooked. I saw the CEO on stage, and I was like, if that guy is even 110 Oh, wow. What he is on the stage in the workplace. I have to work there. And then I saw their CHRO at the time interviewing George Clooney, and my grandmother was telling me to get close enough to pinch his butt. And I was like, I should, I should have these opportunities all the time. That's the most important thing. No, I fell in love with the product as well. Right? I was working at an organization where we were thinking about bringing on a recognition service or platform, and kind of exploring what was out there. And the work human piece just blew my mind, because it it had people at the center, right? It sounds like some cheesy thing that I'm supposed to say, but it really was that it was seeing that anniversary years of service with videos from people, you know, maybe somebody starting things off confrontationally and then ending with a laugh about the movie Big and you're like, wow, they know me so well. And so I just wanted to get closer to how does it work, and how does it work in a culture, and how do people use it? And through kismet, or, you know me, just kind of tripping through life a little bit the opera. Opportunity presented itself, and I got to come in and help to define what it means to be customer zero at work, human and really get into the products and what they're meant to do, and what we think they'll do in theory, and what they're doing in actual practice, and tinker with it. And so in that way, I guess I am the chief play officer. You see how it all comes back around.
Chris Rainey 10:20
It's like, oh, it's like, we just told a Disney story. That's right, yeah,
KeyAnna Schmiedl 10:25
I am Moana or Kiana riding away, Mama, right? You're my boys.
Chris Rainey 10:29
Yeah, don't get started with that, because my daughter will overhear you right now and start running out of the woodwork somewhere. We'll sing it together. And that will be the rest, by the way, her like, every, every single year, every summer. And she's like, can we go? Like, I'm like, what we gonna do this summer? She's like, we need to go to Hawaii. Like, every single year. Like, she's obsessed and she doesn't even know where. She has no idea where it is no context, but it doesn't matter. So she's like, why I was like, Robin, we're not going to Hawaii's like, Daddy, like, every year I'm talking like, three years in a row, persistence, Hawaii. So maybe I'm
KeyAnna Schmiedl 11:01
gonna send you a globe so that she can, at the very least, know where,
Chris Rainey 11:04
no I did. So what we did, I bought her this like puzzle where the puzzle pieces are the shape of the countries, and then you have to put them all in. And now she's like, Actually, she's kind of mastered it. Now she knows, you know, it's embarrassing when your child knows more than you, and she's seven, about where you know about the map.
KeyAnna Schmiedl 11:21
Are you kidding me? That has been my experience since my children were babies.
Chris Rainey 11:25
She was like, putting all the countries all over Europe in the right order. And I was like, I didn't know that. I didn't know that was there, or they'll
KeyAnna Schmiedl 11:31
tell me a country. And I'm like, that's a real place, yeah.
Chris Rainey 11:36
So one of the things I'm excited obviously, I've worked with your team for a long time, and it's been cool to see the journey. And what I'm really excited about is work humans journey into AI, and how it is shaping your approach to employ, experience, performance and recognition, because it's quite a few companies in your space, but no one's really, you know? I mean, they're talking about AI. There's a lot of talk. I'm trying to be nice right now. Let me just pause my words. But I feel like you guys are doing something really special. Let me just pause,
KeyAnna Schmiedl 12:09
yeah, and listen, I believe we are doing something really special. And I believe it's because for the last 25 years that this company has existed, we've always known that there was something special about people recognizing each other within a business, right? And I guess what we maybe had an inkling of at the time, but has become more and more true over time, is the data that that creates and being able to see who's connecting with whom. What are they recognizing each other for? How are the values being lived in your organization? Who is actually really critical to the project, but maybe is the least heard from member of the team? All of those things get displayed in one recognition moment, and as you have 1000s of those connections over time, you really start to see different patterns emerge. And what AI is great at is identifying patterns and then discerning the what does this mean out of that. And so it's taking something that is innately human, adding that AI, you know, learning that AI agent, and saying, Now, how do we turn this into insights that anybody across the organization can leverage so that everybody is is empowered and powered by the interests of what is this group doing? How are we connected? Where are their silos? And you don't just have to rely on your HR team, and it actually allows your HR team or your people team, or your talent team or a human experience team, to be real strategy partners to the business, which I think is the other piece of this, right? Like selfishly, we always talk about wanting to be strategic partners to the business, and wanting to see our work as strategic. But right now, there's nothing more strategic than how do you get AI to partner up with your human capability set and help. Just charge your organization into the future, and we're doing that with our own data recognition, both inside of our own company, but also with our customers. And so it's been really cool to see the different journeys, the different stories that get told. And it also has sprouted a ton of innovation where we have we've been internally lovingly referring to this thing as Gen AI, but it's Gen J E N, and it's an example of what is your resume look like when it's just built from the recognition data that you've received over years and years and years, and what gets called out as your strengths and your key skills, What are the things that you maybe tend to over index on, what are those relationships that you have in the organization, and when did you last have that connection and all of this experience over your time in an organization, being able to be laid out for you so you can go, You know what? Four years ago, I was doing a lot of this, and I. Pivoted. I wonder if I actually am capable of taking on this different opportunity that I wouldn't have considered. And so it's a myriad of different ways that we're finding use cases for this partnership between AI and this unique data source that we have, yeah, and
Chris Rainey 15:15
we're just at the beginning, right? I feel like one of the things I'm so excited about is one the data piece that you mentioned, but the ability to customize is to meet each each individual where they're at and give their own personalized dashboard in real time. You know, that's
KeyAnna Schmiedl 15:29
right, that's right. And it's the real time of this that really matters, right? I think we're all used to those tools that are like, Hey, you were supposed to do this yesterday, and you're like, great, but it's today,
Chris Rainey 15:41
just in time. Really appreciate that. Thank you for getting me to the moment in the moment that mattered.
KeyAnna Schmiedl 15:46
Thank you. That's right when we think about those just in time things, the hardest thing is being a human and trying to deliver to every individual employee that unique experience that just in time needs met, situation that, you know, skyrockets the NPS scores and has you labeled as best places to work. And one of the ways that we can do that better is by leveraging AI, not to replace the people interaction, but to enhance it, to be able to prompt certain conversations, be it a developmental one, you know, to go in and say, hey, I want to ask somebody to be my mentor. What's the best way for me to go about that? You can do that in our own tool, but you can also say great. I really want to work on, let's say my technical skills in coding. Who are some great folks for me to reach out to? And What's always interesting to me is, like, not the five names that it gives you that you're like, yeah, that's who I would have thought of, but the other eight that it gives you that you go, Oh, I don't really know them very well. And so maybe I might want to use this as an opportunity to meet somebody else in the company, and then it further builds those connections, which you know, can be challenged by being in a hybrid environment, where some folks are remote, some folks are in the office, some folks are permanently remote, and just continuing to have that feeling of I work in a place with other humans, and having that be enhanced and and reimagined by that partnership with AI is something that I think is really cool, that we're going to see more value out of in the future.
Chris Rainey 17:19
Yeah, I think definitely, as we're going more companies going more and more remote or hybrid, it creates, like, a, you know, the kind of the glue within the system to create connections that you wouldn't perhaps come across before, right, and be recognized. And also that's going to lead to more innovation inside, you know, I worked in our office where for like, two years, I didn't even see the floor above me, let alone remote where I like, there was like the marketing team above, and the sales and marketing just didn't interact, right? And this is in physical a physical location, so the ability to be able to bring all of that together in a platform, you know, for people to recognize each other from all over the world and create new connections. Now, I feel like is super important. It's something exciting.
KeyAnna Schmiedl 18:03
Now, when we're in the world of you join in on the Zoom, I join in and on the Zoom. And we realized we booked two different conference rooms, but we're both in the office today, and it's like, okay, can we just get back to basics? Of like, Hey, are you here today? And so any tool that is going to help us to remember what it's like to be human at work, I think, is a useful tool. And any tool that's going to help us think about, how can we do this better? Do it slightly differently, you know, integrate some other technologies into this to help, you know, the note takers and all of those things, and for us, for our own tool, to be able to recognize, recognize in the moment, right in the middle of a Zoom meeting where I'm like, Chris made a really good point, and this is helping to elevate the conversation in the room. I just want to write this down so that I don't forget to recognize him for this later, like all of those things, being in the moment, being the just in time, reminders, those are the things that get us excited, because it's how HR was meant to work, and it's how learning and development and all of the other components are meant to work. And I think this gives us a fair shot at actually seeing is that truly possible at scale.
Chris Rainey 19:14
Yeah, it'd be cool if you can connect the platform to sort of your AI note takers inside a video calls to record those moments, and then you don't have to
KeyAnna Schmiedl 19:27
write it down. So in some ways, we can, right? We can pull that out of the notes and say, you know, can you create for me a recognition moment? But I think what we always say is, even if you use a tool to help you get started, we want you the human to really make it what it needs to be. And so for us, it's a little bit of a slippery slope, right? Because I think especially now, it is really important to keep that human centric focus as a part of everything we do, whether it's built. These tools, or even for me, you know, interacting and thinking about how we support our people. It's keeping that human centricness at the center and then saying, what helps to generate more of this?
Chris Rainey 20:13
Yeah, what does that look like practically, you know, because we hear a lot of people talk about that, you know, yeah, the balance between AI and human, AI first and human first. But sure, practically, how does that show
KeyAnna Schmiedl 20:23
up? Yeah, I think, you know, in a couple of ways. We talked about one. The example that I use the most is, look, I'm in Slack all the time. It is like my default right for quick pings and things. And I find myself that that's where I would go to say, hey, really nice job on this. Well, we have in built into our Slack a thing that says, This sounds like a recognition moment. Do you want to recognize? And then it pulls it right into our tool, right so that it can help you just build that habit that by default, sometimes we we think of it, we send the note in the moment. But when we take a minute and take a step back, you can actually add more context there. And it's like, why did that matter? You know? What did it change for the group? What was that contribution that you had? And I want you to do it again, right? And it's the reiterating what is good about what you did, have people doing more of the good things. And so it means you're moving away from a culture of managing to the bad. Yeah, yeah,
Chris Rainey 21:21
because it's true, elevate the experience, like, oh yeah. And first, I love the point, by the way, to double down on it being very specific on what you're recognizing people for. Because the days of the good job, especially when you get a good job with no tone, and it's just virtual a message, like, if you're in person with someone, and someone's like, Great job, right? And you get the energy, right? It's a different type. And even then, you should give specific feedback, because you want to encourage those behaviors, right? But when you get a good job via message, it's just like, cool, yeah,
KeyAnna Schmiedl 21:51
really care. Are you just showing me that like you were on the call? It could
Chris Rainey 21:54
have, it could have been like, recommended in the chat, you know, like, where it says what you should retire back
KeyAnna Schmiedl 21:59
or when it's like, thanks very much. And you're like,
Chris Rainey 22:02
even worse, yeah, thank you very much. Yeah, great.
KeyAnna Schmiedl 22:07
But I so, like, Listen, I'll give you a personal example. Two years ago, I hosted my first ever work human life, and I was terrified, right? Because I started with, like, I had this amazing experience at work, human life.
Chris Rainey 22:23
I'm attending it, to hosting it, that's right, yeah.
KeyAnna Schmiedl 22:27
And I hadn't, uh, I'm trying to think, I don't think I had quite hit the one year mark. So it was like, host work, human live. Then my one year mark hit, and then my birthday hit, all, all within, you know, the span of two weeks, and I will never forget, I received recognition from a peer of mine, and the thoughtfulness, first of all, included a picture of me on stage, and I was like, great. I'm glad that the pants did fit.
Chris Rainey 22:55
I knew that was your first you need to be out with my wife, because I knew you was going to say that, and it wasn't nothing to do with your presentation. You were like, that was like, were like, that was a good choice. I spent three days thinking about that outfit, yeah,
KeyAnna Schmiedl 23:07
thoughtfulness in there, and the way that he shared the impact that it had, and how I made him feel proud to be represented in this way was phenomenal. And then to have my own manager come in and say something slightly different about what he was proud of that I did very well, but for a similar moment, and then to have my colleagues recognizing me for my birthday as well as my work anniversary, I was like, Holy crap. This is what it feels like to be at a place that really sees you, that cares, that values you. Now I'm in a very visible position, right? But we see this all the time on our platform, where I go, Oh my goodness, I haven't seen that person since my orientation, in my first like 90 days of talking to everybody and look at I'm gonna go in there and comment on how they just ran this ridiculous race, and I wouldn't even run if chased. Like, that's impressive to me, right? Like I will go in and make these comments, and it's like being able to still feel like you're connected even when it doesn't feel like there's enough hours in the day to connect. And I think that that's another piece that that it gives you, right, is this sense of I'm connected to the place that I work through, the people that I work with, and that's what you want. You want to be reminded that, look, days can be stressful. There can be really hard days. There can be days where you're frustrated or a project didn't go your way. But if at the end of the day, you can say, I like who I work with, and I want to go back, that's all we're asking for, right? And then, because, then you're going to show up, you're going to try your best, and we're there to help you. And it's, it's kind of fitting those two pieces together to reinforce that I like the people that I work with. I like the work that I'm doing. I'm having a good time doing it, and I get celebrated for showing up in this way.
Chris Rainey 24:56
Yeah, no, I love that. One of the questions I get a lot though, I say just for you, because I. It's on a lot of episodes. Is, is the ROI of recognition, right? You know, you knew that was probably coming, you know. So firstly, like, what, what outcomes are employers, you know, your customers experiencing. And then what level of investment is needed for organizations to really do this in a meaningful way. Let's just say that way. Sure.
KeyAnna Schmiedl 25:23
So look, I think there are the traditional metrics that HR has been asked to track historically, right? You see positive momentum in terms of retention. You see decreased attrition, all of those people metrics that you want to see moving in the right direction. I think the pieces that often go under looked but are almost in some ways just as valuable, if not, in other ways more valuable. Are those real in time culture indicators that go beyond the enps, surveys that give you a sense of you know what? We've tied this program to our values, and yet, I see that these three values are used 98% of the time, and the other five values are used 2% of the time. We may want to look at, are we driving the right behaviors? Are we rewarding the right things? And really, are all of these things our values, or have we really hit on something quite interesting here? And we need to take a look and perhaps pair some of these back, because this is exactly what we want. So it allows you to understand better. What are those levers that you're playing into that inform what your culture is at any given time? And I think the other piece to this is it allows you to not have to actively monitor how things will work when you give your employees the keys and the resources that they need to do what they feel are the right things in recognizing their peers, right so there's a total rewards element to this, where people are able to redeem for points, if you're doing a points program, which we always suggest is best, because I don't know about you, but I've worked in those places where they go, you're getting a spot bonus for $100 or 200 euro, and you're like, great. And then as soon as it's in your check and, you know, taxes and things are taken out, you're like, I didn't really feel it. But when I get to go in, and one of the big things that I redeemed for was my 10 year old at the time was really loved the play Hamilton. And so we say, when you hit double digits, you know, your first double digit, your two whole hands, you can ask for a big thing. And so he wanted to go to New York and see Hamilton on Broadway. And so with my points, I was able to pay for three nights in a hotel for my family. I was able to pay for the Broadway tickets for for me and my son to go. And like, the good tickets that, if I looked at the dollar amount, I probably would have said, No, you're not dead, yeah. But when we did that the walk back from the play, my son looked at me, and he was like that. Hamilton kind of looked like me, and he did. My son's a mixed kid. He doesn't see, you know, as he sees more representation than I did. Let's put it that way, but still not that much. And it made him think differently. But then also, during the play, he was like, Yo, bro, this Hamilton is more anxious, and that guy's being a little sus and it helped me to understand Jen Alpha language, and that is the greatest gift of all, okay, and so that I will always remember, because that was an experience that I had with my family, and maybe I could have still done that with the spot bonus. But I don't, I would have thought of it as me paying for this thing as opposed to this gift that was given to me. And so I think that sometimes when we think in just total rewards, dollars and time off, we're not really thinking about what is the experience that people have at work, and what is the experience that they are then able to have because of where they work and how their culture operates. And then to the, you know, investment point, look, we always say 1% of payroll is like the sweet spot to hit to get this positive flywheel going in your organization. When you think about it in terms of bonus and things, it really does not sound like a lot, but it can have just this ongoing positive impact to your organization to be able to say we're going to allow our employees to recognize each other? Yes, of course you wanted to be thoughtful about do you need to have certain caps on things? But it's really like start from a place of what happens if we just let our employees do the right thing, as opposed to what happens if this program gets. Adding, but you're leading with trust, right? And that's where I think sometimes folks get hung up when they think about recognition. It to your point earlier, about some folks who are just like, yeah, it's recognition. You give a thanks, and you give them five bucks and you've done it. No, when you think about recognition in this strategic way, it's more than just the traditional total rewards. It's creating that experience, having that cultural pull through, and it's showing your employees we trust you to help take care of each other, and we want to hear from you as how that's going. And you get more of that organic, real time feedback, real time buy in, and it makes it easier to have all the conversations that you need to have when you're a business.
Chris Rainey 30:45
Yeah, I love the story, by the way, that you shared with your son, because it the first example was very like, you know, transactional, right? You get a gift card or sort of in your or your paycheck, right, to an experience that a memory that you will never forget. And when you think of that, you will remember how you felt, alright, and you're really then connecting mind and heart right along that he'll remember that too, as opposed to that just as a monetary amount showing up in a paycheck, right? And those
KeyAnna Schmiedl 31:21
like my boys remember that I work here, even they will say like, oh, because you work here. They've met Eric a few times in the office when we've had days where we're bringing our kids in, whether it's like the Halloween parade or whatever it is, and one time when my youngest almost literally ran into him. And luckily, Eric had on some good sneakers, good traction, was able to dodge him a little bit. But they're like, so that's the guy that lets you have these points, so we can have these things. And I like that
Chris Rainey 31:58
sort of Charles mind of like, that's the guy, right?
KeyAnna Schmiedl 32:01
But for them now they, they don't, you know, like they've seen me when I've worked at places where they're like, Mom, you seem so frustrated. And I will tell you within my first few months of working here, of experiencing the program, you know, getting really excited and seeing like, this is what it's like when you have a culture that believes in these things. It was not more than the first few months where they were like, Mom, you seem different. You have more fun with us. You're laughing more. You eat dinner with us all the time. And I think that's the other piece too. Is you know, when you invest in a program like this, it does make you think differently about the experience that people are having at work, and it makes you check in more in this more human way that I I find it hard to necessarily quantify, and that's sometimes the challenge is that you get these things that become tangible, but they they initially kind of sit in this intangible space of, I don't know, I just feel better connected, right? And it's like, well, what does that get you in terms of value? Well, it means I'm less likely to pick up the phone if you know a recruiter calls me. I'm less likely to bad mouth the organization for going through a tough time. I'm more likely to encourage collaboration with my teammates, as opposed to, no, we have to siphon off resources because we only get so many shakes at the pie
Chris Rainey 33:26
or whatever. Yeah, I was the same my previous company. I was there for like, over 10 years, and every time I got the annual recruiter calls, I feel like I'm under on their Excel spreadsheet. And once a year, they try and get me right. And I like, I could tell, like, literally, was the same, even sometimes down to the same week. And I was like, You guys need to have a better stroke. Strategy. I loved, I really loved my team. Like, the only reason I stayed there for so long wasn't because I was making way more or my role was expanding rapidly. I was like, I just really enjoy working here, and I'm surrounded by some amazing people, and it took me years to develop these great relationships. And do I want to go over here for an extra like, 20k you know, or whatever it may be, like, you know? And and that's what kept me there, right? And I felt really recognized that I always give credit to Andy, our CEO, like, anytime for, like, man, for like, the whole 10 years, every single time someone did a deal, he walked down from his office, across the entire floor and congratulated you in person, and it was specific about it to every single sales person, every single day. It's a lot of work. And I didn't, I didn't even fully appreciate at the time, because I just thought that was normal. And so I went to my next company, oh, I was like, Oh, we really know that was pretty good. And I remember that meant more that recognition meant. I've said this sorry for people listening on the shows. I know you've heard this before, but that meant more than to me than the commission, yeah, and the sale, like the recognition in front of everyone, and like to be rewarded for my work, like I was excited about when I got a deal, like, oh, and he's gonna come down some recognition. Like, that sounds silly, but that like. For me, that was like a big deal, well,
KeyAnna Schmiedl 35:02
and I think too, right? The nice thing about investing in a real recognition program done right with the right level of investment, with with the right level of engagement, it also means that you can back to the earlier you know, part of this conversation around personalization. It means that you can personalize it. It means that as the manager, I can go around and I can ask my direct reports, you know, how do you like to be recognized? And if somebody tells me privately, well, then I could still recognize them on the platform, but make it private, or I can recognize them on the platform and make it restricted so that everybody can see that they got recognized. They just can't see the details that are there, right? Or I can make it public for those folks who are like, I want a big song and dance. It also doesn't preclude you from still having the birthday cake in the office or the baby shower before somebody goes out. It just enhances all of those things so that there's less of the stress of, oh, how much do you give for a baby shower these days? Or somebody bought a new house, and what are we doing? Recognize them on the platform, and then they can go into the store and pick out what they want. I remember when we moved into our house. I think it was just a few months after I had started this job, and I had taken for granted that we had ceiling fans in every room in our old house, and we did not in this room. And the first thing I did with my points was I bought those really nice Dyson fans with the HEPA filters and the one, and got one for everybody's room. And every time I walk into the boys room now I'm like, thanks.
Chris Rainey 36:37
You're like, thanks. We can breathe easy. Thanks. Yeah, what do you think? But by the way, I'll double down anyone listening right now, when was the last time you asked your team how they like to be recognized? Because I made that mistake for so many years, and I was reward because I did when I was a sales executive. I was I was recognized in a certain way. And I just thought, everyone likes to everyone likes the stage. Everyone loves to go up and get a trophy, right? And then I found that very quickly for one of my top sales team, and he took me to one side and was like, I hate. I dread every single month, because at the end of the month he was always a top sales when he dreaded going on stage and getting his award. We should have done monthly like award sales awards. And I was like, Oh my god. So every single you're stressing throughout the entire month that you have to go up in front of the whole company and take which everyone else is excited to do. And I said, Oh, my God, I'm so sorry. Like, I just never, you know, thought about that. And he's like, yeah, like, for like, this, like, over a year of this person, like, incredible sales executive, obviously kept
KeyAnna Schmiedl 37:37
winning. How many more sales he would have made if he wasn't just one of
Chris Rainey 37:44
my favorite things is when I told him, You don't have to go. I didn't tell I forgot to tell the my VP, so we did the sales awards, and then they called you his name out, and he just didn't come, so that everyone was clapping, and he was on stage, and I was like, Oh, I forgot to mention it. And then, literally, but it turned out into a really and then from a year on, it became a comedy joke. So during that portion of the awards, they would all go, oh, where's I'll say, I'll say his name, Cameron. Hey, where's Cameron? Everyone's like, Haha, he's on the phone still, because basically, literally, while we, while we'll be doing the awards, he's still he's still dialing, he's still smiling and dying and doing and doing deals as well. So it's like, it takes a few seconds to ask, and it will mean a lot to that the individual that you took the time to ask them last question for let you go. Because being you could or forever. I feel like we need our own show at this point. Yeah, I even, I don't know how much value people will get but don't have fun. I feel like
KeyAnna Schmiedl 38:43
a ton of value. It'll bring a smile to their face. The birds will start singing, no matter where they are.
Chris Rainey 38:48
We've got have just like crazy segments throughout. What would you say is like one of the misconceptions about recognition that you hear a lot.
KeyAnna Schmiedl 38:59
I The misconception, I think that it's just an extension of total rewards. You know, it's this idea of like, okay, so you give them $5 or access to a gift card, and then, great. And so how much should that cost us? As opposed to thinking about, I keep saying recognition done right, but it's really that right. It's this idea of recognition should be doing so much more for you than just closing the gap between base salary bonus and where your employee wants to be. And if you're thinking about it in that way, and if you're thinking that like $5 at a time is going to get you X, you're thinking about it completely wrong. And I want people to demand more from their recognition program. I want them to, you know, think about this as a strategic investment in the same way that you would think about, you know, investing in an AWS platform to store all your data, right, like this is the this level. Level of investment should come with some expectations that should be moving culture in your organization. And it should be getting your people to look around and say, Man, I love it here. Or if they're not that effusive, at least saying, Yeah, I like it here, but in a way that you know they're motivated to keep showing up for each other, because a business is only as good as its people. And if your people aren't happy, they're not going to do their best. If they're constantly stressed, they're not going to do their best. And if they feel like acknowledging the day to day that keeps the lights on is not ever worthy of being shouted from the rooftops, well, then it's only a matter of time before they go. Well, this is just like any other place. And I could do this anywhere, and you it. Recognition should really help you to differentiate. What makes your business unique. What is that, you know, employee value proposition, but also, what is that strategic business investment that says our people are our most valuable resource, and here's how we should be treating them.
Chris Rainey 41:06
I love that. It kind of, we mentioned it becoming part of your culture, obviously, but it's, it's kind of also the way in which we work, the way we work at work, human right? It's just like it's in the air, that's right. I can't think of a word, right, like so, and I'm sure you probably get that when people first joined the business, they must have quite a interesting experience. I'm like, Whoa, wow.
KeyAnna Schmiedl 41:31
Yeah, people think it's weird when they first joined, especially, you know, I've kind of lovingly referred to those who have been recently traumatized in the workforce, coming from those employers that are just like, you could be replaced at any time. And then they come here, and it is this sense of like, when is the other shoe gonna drop? And then you realize the other shoe doesn't drop. It's just this is what it's like to work with people who are allowed to care about their you know, fellow colleague, and when you realize, like, oh, work can be like this, it then makes you terrified to ever want to go anywhere else, because you're like, This feels like magic. And I'm, what I'm saying is I don't want it to feel like magic. I want it to feel like the norm so that we can continue to be pushed to do better. But like, I think as we talk about the shifts in working culture, especially since the height of the pandemic, this should be one of those shifts that people demand, and it should be one of those things that just become the norm in expected ways of working. And I don't know that we've had enough of that conversation yet, but I feel like it's we're almost there.
Chris Rainey 42:45
Yeah, I love it. Well, Kenny, you're the best. I really appreciate you taking the time to come out before let you go. Where can people connect with you? If they want to reach out and say hi?
KeyAnna Schmiedl 42:55
Yeah, they can connect with me on LinkedIn. I am one of those weird elder millennial types, that is not on the other social platforms, but if you get my email address or anything else, I will respond, I promise. And I always love connecting with new folks. I don't always have time to do it in the most timely of manners, but I promise I will get back to you, and I look forward to continuing the conversation with whoever is interested.
Chris Rainey 43:21
Amazing, awesome. I appreciate you. Congratulations, all the work so far, and I looking forward to seeing you soon, because I know we're going to be attending a few events together, so I look forward to meeting you in
KeyAnna Schmiedl 43:29
person. Yeah, it'll be great, and it'll go on for probably hours.
Chris Rainey 43:33
We're not even going to do anything at the event, and we're just going to be chatting. Listen all the best. I'll catch you soon.
KeyAnna Schmiedl 43:40
Thanks. Thank you. Thanks for having me. You.
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KeyAnna Schmiedl, Chief Human Experience Officer at Workhuman.