How IKEA Assembled Their People-First Culture and Values

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On today’s episode I'm joined by Ulrika Biesèrt, Global People and Culture Manager at Ingka Group, IKEA.

Episode Highlights:

How IKEA Assembled their People - First Culture and Values
How The have Created An Environment Where Employees Can Thrive
How they are building an inclusive and diverse workplace that represents the communities and customers they serve

Ulrika Biesèrt 0:00
Let's face that optimization and digitalization, we've changed the world of work. And we need to do it also for productivity. So we can't shy away from that. Having said that, I think we as an employer, really need to take responsibility to how you keep employable. So you need to start the conversation. And for me, it doesn't need to be threatening because I think most job will actually be more engaging, and actually be maybe even more empowering. So let's not look at this as a threat, but still understand that organisations need to drive efficiencies to be staying competitive. And how do we then, in a proactive manner support our co workers to stay employable? That has been our thinking.
Chris Rainey 0:53
I've won Welcome back to the HR leaders podcast and today's episode, I'm joined by orico bissa, who's a global people and culture manager at intergroup. IKEA. During episode rica shares how IKEA assembled their people first culture and values, how they've created an environment where employees can thrive, and also how to building an inclusive and diverse workplace that represents the communities and customers that they serve. As always, before we jump to the video, make sure you hit that subscribe button, turn on notification bell and follow us on your favourite podcast platform. With that being said, let's jump in, or eco Welcome to the show. How are you?
Ulrika Biesèrt 1:30
Oh, thank you very much. I'm actually very, very good.
Chris Rainey 1:33
You might not notice but the first version of the HR leaders podcast studio was a complete IKEA set up. Every single chair, the background, it was almost like I was sponsored. I may as well been sponsored by IKEA at that point, as well. And even my current studio at home is just IKEA everything. So you'd be proud to see a lot of that. So I feel like I feel like IKEA is part of of many people's lives, in that sense that you live and breathe it and you see everyday in your home or at work as well. So it's such an interest in how many people know the brand, but also have to so many people have the products in their homes, and they see it every day. And there must be really interesting for you. And also we'll get into that in terms of the business of how that links back to your culture, because people kind of already relate to the brand, the business itself. But before we get into that, tell everyone a little bit more about you personally, and your journey to where we are now.
Ulrika Biesèrt 2:37
So from the very beginning, I'm brought up in a big family. So we were four siblings, with our parents and all about us had a passion for horses, Radha Celtic, horses, dogs, friends, big family. And I think actually it formed me in why I became so interested in people and how we socialise with each other and the behaviours we're having and what actually forms us. But for me that has been profound and deep interest in people. And then I started to become a family therapist and a social worker. And I work out on the field for more than six years specialised on young women turn a teenager girls with drug problems. And I always say that, that the people I worked for and with was actually not at all the challenge for me, but organisation where I felt that organisation was bureaucratic, and I felt it was quite slow. So I decided to go back to university and at that time, I'm not sure I understood is going to be human resources. But I took a degree in in labour law and Personnel Administration in finance and leadership. And then it actually led to I'm from the area where it is boned. So the company was so much dominated in it dominating in that area. At that time, actually, I lived in Stockholm. But I saw a position that I thought wow, this is really interesting for me where they needed a person a little bit more with my background also. So and the values was of course something that I was attracted to. And then after the first interview, I just felt this is where I want to work. And then I started to work at IKEA nine to seven I thought maybe I stay three, four years not quite ready for a son. And now 25 years later it will feel that um, you know, it's the same company is the same culture is the same business idea, but it's so been so many changes. And I lived in different countries as well and it seems now seven years I'm living in the Netherlands some sweet but it's just changed so It's amazing how it can be like that that was not what I thought from the beginning. And now I'm here talking to you.
Chris Rainey 5:06
What would you say? Going back to your first career? What would you say you learned in your first career that's helped you now, as a people, as a people and culture leader.
Ulrika Biesèrt 5:17
What I learn, firstly is that no one of us can come to a situation in life where we don't want to be. So I have deep respect for how quickly life can change. But then secondly, what I learned specifically, when I worked with those young teenagers was the need of someone believing you. Yeah. And that made the difference. So at that time, at least, I'm not sure how this now, I think it was as a totally before quite bureaucratic it was processes and rules, and very much, I think authorities and regulations to follow, but what I learned is that those people, it needs to be recognised, they need someone who's seeing them. And if you could send the message that I believe in you without saying it, maybe the sense of confidence actually increased, and then the change just came, and that could come quite rapidly. And I think that goes in our business organisation as well. If you have leaders that believes in you, maybe give you a little bit too big job a little bit too early, and with the right support, your self confidence increase, and you can do something amazing. And I think we as human beings, we can do nearly anything. But we also need to leave it in ourselves, but also that we need support from other people. Yeah,
Chris Rainey 6:41
no, I love that so much and kind of takes me back to a child playing sports, I grew up playing ice hockey. And when our coach was very much a leader in that way that he kind of saw things in me that I didn't see in myself, you know, at the tail end. And even until your point even though I thought I wasn't ready. I'll be we always feel like you're never ready. It would push me to that next level, right? And that's something that that's taken over to my career in business as well. One of the things that me and Shane, my co founder talk about is seek discomfort. That's kind of one of our sayings or mottos. So you know, it's in those uncomfortable places where the growth happens. But in many times that starts with a leader believing in you to your point and starting someone believing in you when you don't even believe in yourself, as well. So I love that I'd love to and it's completely transferable. What What role did you start in? So you mentioned you joined IKEA? It's been many years? What what are some? What are some of the roles that you've been in?
Ulrika Biesèrt 7:55
At that time it was called. So I started in a distribution centre. We want our son co workers, mostly men, and blue collar workers. And my role was, I think it was called Personnel Administration or something like that. But the reason I was employed one of the key reasons I believe was my background, because they had quite significant problems that at times, we had high sickness rate and they actually had also been a problem with people drinking too much. So it wasn't history that I mean, it was not the majority, of course, but my my can call specialisation was actually asked for. And you know, the first time I was entering this workplace, it feels like home. It felt like it was extremely included. I love the people I work for a very straightforward hands on hardworking people. So that was my first I actually learned I think my profession from the very start, you know, all the HR processes, how you recruit how you develop, how you're on board, how you work with succession, how actually you can have conversations with people, but also tough conversations sometimes. All of that I think it was a super good school, actually. Yeah, amazing.
Chris Rainey 9:17
And what would you say is the main thing that just kept you in the business for over 20 years, which is very unheard of in this day and age?
Ulrika Biesèrt 9:26
Yeah, I think I get what a ke R stands for it's it has such a profound culture and value something that is real. It's not on the walls. It's not like we're seeing it because it's the right thing to do. So I feel I can be myself at this company. I don't feel I need to put on a mask or go into a room that is not me. So with my positive things, but also with my flaws. I'm okay and I am accepted. And what happens psychologically with me, and I think our coworkers is that you don't need to put so much effort in what I call the second job, thinking, Am I good enough? There is what I'm saying here, correct there. You know, it's I think that minimalize us as human beings. So I feel very free. And and so that is one thing I can be myself. And that one is that I felt early that, you know, if you work hard, and you're positive, and you actually have a learning mindset, you can go very far in this company, if you want to make a career upwards, or if you want to do it left girl, or if you just want to be more senior position, there is endless of possibilities. So for me, that was a trigger that I have never been like, I want to go to death position or aiming for that. But I always constantly wanted to learn, and I wanted to have excitement. I'm super action oriented, so I need actions. And that was provided. So it was a very entrepreneurial spirit when I started. So if I had an ID, I was just told, go and test it. And then a test. It didn't work and some work but mostly actually became something profound. So I just think a lovely culture and a possibility to grow.
Chris Rainey 11:21
Yeah, I understand IKEA is celebrating his 80 years. This year, and you speak about culture. And IKEA is quite renowned for its culture. But how do you make sure that it travels across, you know, the 31 countries that you're present in? Because that is a challenge?
Ulrika Biesèrt 11:41
Yeah, it is a challenge. But I think as you said, this is not something new, the Cha Cha values for I mean, our founder decided very early, I always call him the best psychologist in the world, because he understood people and he understood what makes people tick. That sometimes you need a challenge, sometimes you need actually a positive feedback, but he understood that. But we are very intentional on the culture values. So for instance, we recruit through values. So that is a starting point. So I k is not for everyone. And we are very thorough in the way we are recruiting regardless if we're operating in China, in us and Sweden or UK, we have the same methods in and we are training all our HR professionals and line managers in being super good hair. And what we have a saying that who you are, is more important than your CV, we believe you can learn your we can help you get into capabilities, we have some exceptions now, in the digital field where we have been a little bit behind, so that we have needed to recruit actually, people have the right skills from the beginning. But for the many people, we actually believe that the attitude, your values, your personality is more important than your specific skills, and then we can help you with the skills. So that is the first step. But then through the onboarding. So every day work in life and leadership and how we are training our leaders, everything is actually integrated with culture and values, we're very intentional. And one thing that I believe it's also important that what you do is as important as how you do it. So that means that you might be a leader or a co worker that delivers super good results, that you are not leaving devalues, for instance, you're actually treating people really badly, then it's not actually performance in our world. So the work done house is equally important. I also believe that IKEA has been very strong in combining purpose and profit. So we love profit, because profit gives resources. So we're not shying away that we actually need to earn money. But then how we are spending the money that we're earning is if I simplify it, you can put it put it in three buckets. So one is that we reinvest in the business. So business development. One is that we have if we are doing well, we're actually sharing with the co workers. So we have good bonus system, but we also have pension system. So when a company is doing a certain profit, we are sharing that. And then 1/3 is going back to a clear foundation that is supporting communities and people that is more vulnerable. You can call it the charity organisation. So it's very combined purpose and profit, which I think also forms a culture. So if you ask our co workers there's extremely high rating and that you feel proud to work for IKEA and our engagement index is a 2% which is very high for a retailer. So I think That forms or support or the culture and that I feel a belonging to something bigger than only the work. So the culture is a key if you ask me, it's our DNA. And it's the most important. We have actually, I think it's our competitive advantage.
Chris Rainey 15:19
No, I love it. I love it. Going back to what you mentioned earlier, when you're recruiting, could you break that down a little bit more about how you recruit for those for those soft skills as opposed to just the technical skills?
Ulrika Biesèrt 15:35
What we're doing through the interview process, and you meet a couple of different people during the process, but everyone are actually asking questions in relation. So we have a set of questions, we have a set of some questions we have tools for when we know we're aware of we are successful, because sometimes we are not. So it's it's if you are coming to an interview to IKEA, we are not discussing only your capacity or capability that might be the small part. Firstly, we're talking about you. So if if I talk about me, when I'm recruiting, I want to know a little bit about your background, what makes you tick, what difficulties you have had in life, your childhood, you know, that who what has formed you to who you are today, then it's also that we have a set of values. And here we can actually discuss them, but also assess if if they are important for you, there is maybe not 100% matching, but the majority needs to match.
Chris Rainey 16:42
So you have questions for each value. So yes, value and yes, these are some questions I could ask to assess. Yeah,
Ulrika Biesèrt 16:49
we have done as a source so that we know because we're using quite much data today. So we know those answers are more likely to be a good fit for us then, we have also looked into if we can do utilise this, but it has not been very successful. So
Chris Rainey 17:06
do you use a platform for this at the moment? Not so not Not, not at the moment.
Ulrika Biesèrt 17:10
We tried it once and it was really not successful. So but that is some actually I have done a little bit of a go that you can go in because it's not only about us choosing the right person, it's also for the person to choose the right company. But for instance, if you like to be a spender when status is very important for you, we are not we are travelling economy class, we I always say we are straightforward doers. So quite simple, quite straightforward. We like to get the job done. Don't make it complicated. We don't like your racket. So because of having a certain position doesn't mean if I'm out in a store that I'm more of course, let's not be naive that there is, of course, an unspoken hierarchy. But it's I think if you were asking people about top leaders, I think they would say yeah, they are like the rest of us.
Chris Rainey 18:10
Yeah, that's what that's what. Yeah, yeah. No, I love that. One of the big things that we talk about on the podcast is, you know, how do we help our employees thrive? At work? A big part of that is creating a psychological safety and some of the things you've already spoken about the cultural values, what are some of the other ways that you helped create that environment that everyone can thrive at work?
Ulrika Biesèrt 18:40
And empowerment, I think is the key. So first, I love the psychological safe dissident just need to pick up on that that how do you create an environment where people feel safe enough to speak up and to be themselves? I think it's very dangerous, if you have a culture where people are not doing that, because ultimately, I think it would destroy your business, you will not get the best ideas, you will lose creativity, you will lose innovation. So we really encourage and the moment where people speak up, and sometimes it's not the right thing and sometimes maybe it's even not correct, but you know, you will find the real golden nuggets by having that culture. So that is one part. But then Firstly, it is the culture values that are discussed before you need to be intentional in your culture to make people thrive and really realising a job is a big part of your life. And I think it's very important that the job is not only a pay slip, because that will not let we drink eight years. So how can you create that environment where you are taking responsibility and you are allowed to take responsibility where you're allowed to take decisions, so we want to push the decisions as close to the customers as possible. That means that you are a co worker, or is our ally. I would take the decision that needs to be taken, then I think leadership is a key. There are many bad leaders that is influencing people's lives. So we are really putting investments in leadership. So just the last year, we have done more than 10 million euros in investment in leadership to support our leaders, because it's so much changes now. So how can you be the best leader for our coworkers, we also see, which I think is interesting and took the correlation. Now indeed, with happy customer, we are measuring happy customer index, we'd have the coworker index. So when the coworkers feel satisfied, engaged and empowered, we can see a direct link to happy customer, and that the customer is buying more. So it's sometimes HR can be seen as fluffy. But now we have the possibility to use data to actually show the impact that I think we already have known for decades. But now you can share with data as well. But the thriving part is important. And then it's also about inclusion. Can I feel that I'm included regardless of gender, or sexual orientation, ethnicity, and race or disabilities, whatever you have in how can I feel included? So it boils down all the time to having fun jobs, of course, but also having an environment where I can be myself where I feel I can grow, where I can feel included, and where I feel that I'm allowed to take responsibility. So giving and taking responsibility is one of our core values. So it's actually many things that is combined, but when you hear me talk is quite much soft skills that I'm talking about. Yeah,
Chris Rainey 21:53
yeah. No. And that, as you said, if you get that part, right, you can teach the hard skills. Exactly. So which I love it, you know, for a long time, it was the other way around. Well, that's it. I'm glad you got, you're getting it right from the very beginning. And you're clearly your founder, like you said earlier understood that from the very beginning, which has completely shaped your culture, and who you are, as an organisation, deeply, deeply entrenched in that people first approach
Ulrika Biesèrt 22:25
the proposed system, I think, and then I think now with digitalization and technologies changes, I believe that the human skills and what we call the soft skills would be the new hard skills. Yeah,
Chris Rainey 22:37
power skills, right, you know, in that sense. So could you break down some of the specific things you're doing? So you mentioned the investment in the leaders? What are some of the specific areas that you're investing in to upskill them on to help them
Ulrika Biesèrt 22:52
so if I start with the Kobe, because the COVID was a bit like before and after practice, so so we were forced, because everything changed so rapidly and 70% of our stores got closed very quickly. And then we actually need to have rescaling and upskilling. So we rescale more than 65,000 co workers in a very short period. But I also want to be honest here, I don't think we yet or where I want us to be when it comes to systematic may may be even a AI driven individualised learning development plans for everyone, but we are testing and trying so I can give you one example. We have had something that we call a call centres. So coworkers were answering co customers, you know, questions if something was not working or so on. Now, they are customer support centres and the same co workers have been rescaled and upskill is 8500 Coworkers now, where they are meeting the customer in a very different ways. So they meet them through social media through shots, but also through video meetings where the co workers might help you with interior design and home furnishing and knowledge. And that has been a significant change. And we can see that this business is growing we have been 1% Today is 2.6 is equal 1.3 billion euros and we're going forward 10% I believe that the job is more fun. And that has been one way of re Skilling and upscaling. But if I taking a little bit outside IKEA perspective, I believe that learning and lifelong learning is the new norm. And I think that society's meaning governments educational system, businesses, but also individuals. All of us need to go together to see what is the optimal way to support co workers with rescaling and upskilling we have decided that we want to keep you and playable as a co worker, if it's in IKEA or outside, and that is actually a responsibility for us as an employer. But it's big. And I think that anyone is listening here, this is not happening to someone else, it's happening to us as well. So the learning mindset, I think, will be key. And as I said before, it's also very much about the soft skills. So the example I gave young Customer Support Centre, it's very much how do I connect emotionally to a customer? How actually do I come back and dialogue? So again, just soft skills 60 new hard skills that I have respect for what we need to do going ahead?
Chris Rainey 25:43
No, I love that. And it's interesting how you're, you're evolving with your customer, right? In the past, it was phone call, because that's the way it works. But now it's social media or it's video, it's because that's that's the new degeneration who's buying from you. Now, that's how they that's their, that's their language of communication has changed and you're you're evolving and rescaling the team to meet that new, new way of working as well.
Ulrika Biesèrt 26:13
You also need to have the culture because you're doing mistakes when you don't have old dancer. So I think we are in the midst now of finding what could be a good way. And maybe it will never be linear, I don't know. But it's not the same way. That is probably what I'm saying.
Chris Rainey 26:31
Yeah, but that goes back to your culture, again, of constantly challenging, innovating, trying something new, you're not going to get it right perfectly every single time. But again, the whole point is to continue and fail forward and learn and learn along the way. Of course, you mentioned before, about the focus on equity, diversity and inclusion. Could you walk us through some of the practical things that you're doing to move the needle and have conversations and push this.
Ulrika Biesèrt 27:05
And I think the most important also here is that we started this nearly two decades ago. So yeah, and the reason why IKEA is our vision is to create a better everyday life for the many people. So we are a company for the money by the many. And at that time, there was quite stirs Okay, we are a company for the men it will How come there are so few females are leadership positions. And at that time, I was young, but I was also in a distribution centre. So for instance, on the you can call it on on the floor, it was only men who were leaders, no famous whatsoever. And then we decided and the executive team decided this will change. So they set very tough goals meaning 50 throughout organisation, even if we will allow the journey. But I think that is important, you need to have your talk with you, you need to set the goals. And then we are very action oriented as a company. So we started to go so all organisations started to move. And if I'm taking my distribution example, we actually recruited many female leaders, we only didn't one because that we have understood that that would not be good. So we actually had a majority coming in. And the interesting part just as I remember is that men also preferred it after a while because they said their work environment became differently. So if I'm looking at our data, today we are having on gender balance 5050 throughout organisation. So in each market, we have a CEO that we have 5050 but maybe more interesting in our management team throughout the world is also 5050 where we are not so strong because we always look at what we can do better. So I feel that the female and male gender chair that is kind of integrated part now I actually see when I'm looking at our succession bench, that we have more females now. So that that also is something to look at because we want to have 5050 We shouldn't dominate in one group where we're not reflect reflecting the customer base is on ethnicity and race. So that is our next step. Now that we have said that we want to reflect the market and the community where we are operating. So that is the big thing and we are if you like you can say we are little bit behind here. So we have started different programmes. So one is a programme we call bloom. So we are actually training next generation leaders. We are training hundreds 100 every year. That is also reflecting groups that is not represented well. In our companies to wear fast tracking, so they can become market managers, meaning store managers within three years. So they will be also young, when they get the positions, we're doing something we call equal up. So we're doing two pilots now one in Portugal, and one in us that with the same ID, and number of people going through a programme, we're getting loads of support to take on bigger jobs. But there is so many things we're doing. So if I take India, for instance, where parental leave, it's very uncommon. We're not doing parental leave only we're doing thought asleep. And we also are very generous on our parental leave in general. So for instance, and us we are giving far beyond what you can get from the society. So it's in different portions we are supporting quite hands on, we are having daycare in some countries, because we see that has been the biggest barriers for me to actually work specifically as a woman. Then another thing we are doing is that because even if our figures are good, so 81% of our co workers feel included, we have done a survey now that 38,000 co workers and so on. And the patterns we could see we are very strong and very much but the patterns, we can see that the groups are more representing minorities are feeling more excluded. So here we need to go down to details. And by that, then depending on the market, we're trying to close that gaps. And, and we also, from a societal point of view, we are really advocating positively, for instance, for LGBT plus communities and their rights, but also violence against women is something that we are taking a standpoint against and also supporting and educating because you can correlate a collector to home, most of the violence happens at home. And we are a company that are really want to have strengthening, hoping for everyone. So that is also connected. So what I'm trying to give you that we're doing big things and small things, but I would say we're quite intentional what we're doing. And we are super committed. And it has been in that sense. It's not difficult. And I think it's connected to that we want to be a company for demanded by the money. And the man is actually a representative from diversity, equality and inclusion.
Chris Rainey 32:34
Yeah. Wow, so much to unpack. You ever, I don't know where to start for those underrepresented groups that you mentioned that and those programmes, who's leading those. Because you mentioned obviously to training, etc, fast tracking, who's who's leading that internally. So it's
Ulrika Biesèrt 32:54
a combination of so if I take the Blum programme with the one that was actually if we set up the framework globally, on how we can do it also from the recruitment point of view, and also the financial point of view, and then each market, connected to a number of people that are doing then you have the line manager there, and people and culture is supporting on the equal app. It's the two markets who's leading it. So Portugal, it's actually our retail manager in Portugal, to get their way the people and capture manager and it's the same in us. And then of course, the equality team is very engaged in these sorts of to help with profound knowledge buildings, for instance, we're doing rapidly bias training for all leaders. And that can come from those two countries, because we get learnings why we're doing this. But in general, it's always driven from the market from the line managers supported by the people in Capture team.
Chris Rainey 33:57
And is it a mixture of in person and digital? Did those populations in those other countries collaborate as well and network with each other? How does that work? Yes,
Ulrika Biesèrt 34:08
yeah, it's, I think that this is one of our core values is togetherness. And we are, I call it also interdependently. They shape meaning that that one plus one equals three. So we have that as a culture, so and sharing mistakes and sharing learnings and when we need leaders together, we also sharing how we are doing in webinars and so on. So it's an ongoing journey. But that is so natural for us to share how we're doing things.
Chris Rainey 34:39
Yeah. So you do a mixture of virtual so you can have those different, different people come up, collaborate and meet each other and instead learn learn from each other. Exactly along the way that makes sense. And so that's also part of creating that stickiness. You know, and also that's where kind of the diversity of thought Open Innovation, you're connecting people from different parts of the world. Yeah. And again, leads back to your culture and your values. Yes.
Ulrika Biesèrt 35:07
And you know, when I worked a long time ago now for our range and product development part, and what we found is that when we add people from different cultures, nationalities and ethnicity, age, gender balance, are we actually produced and did I look better?
Chris Rainey 35:26
Yeah, no surprise.
Ulrika Biesèrt 35:29
It may be it's kind of given. But at that time, we were a little bit shocked, actually.
Chris Rainey 35:36
Yeah. So isn't, you know, isn't just the right thing to do. It's also a great business.
Ulrika Biesèrt 35:43
Sometimes you in some organisations, you need to convince by having the results and business as a starting point. Yeah.
Chris Rainey 35:52
Just like curiosity, because of the kind of digital learning spaces kind of exploded over the last couple of years, what platforms and solutions do you use? Have you built something internally? Have you collaborated with a partner? What's been a combination
Ulrika Biesèrt 36:09
of those internal platforms, but also external platforms. But I think I wouldn't expect this to find what is the best one going ahead, going forward. And there we are not, as I said before, I'm not fully happy and satisfied where we are yet, but we have different combination of plus. And then also, depending on the markets like in in China, it's much more advanced, but much more driven from technology. So they have found one way where they have bits of learning, where you can use your phone during your when you're working also on the shop floor, you can learn while you're literally walking or talking to the customers, while the NIOD organisation is a little bit more resistant to that. So we need to find an agile way. But going ahead, I think we need to crack the code of how do we provide efficient, relevant, accessible learning for all keeping noise? Yeah, I
Chris Rainey 37:08
asked that for that reason, because you have so many people that are working on the shop floor, other people in logistics that you need to be able to connect with them in a different way. on their mobile, right, there's, there's no other way to connect with them, but in many ways, is through their mobile phone, as well. So so many companies now are going through that process or similar to yourself where we had we find one way to unify everything, but that has an incredible user experience.
Ulrika Biesèrt 37:38
Also the understanding that even if you have a certain kind of job, your learning needs might look differently, of course. So that is also how do you find that again, let's say and I hope that technology will help us here to personalise the journey and journeys, and also built on on your own passion, because I think you'll learn better if you're really feeling engaged by learning. Yeah,
Chris Rainey 38:03
I think when we spoke before you and this is like the third sort of leg of your people strategy, you talk about lifelong democratic learning. What do you mean, what do you mean by Democratic learning.
Ulrika Biesèrt 38:14
And it's a very important word, we have democratic design as our foundation, how we are developing our products. But it's the same thing going here. On democratic learning, it means that it should be including everyone. So we are today 170,000, coworkers, and democratic is of course, it needs to be affordable. It needs to be accessible, it needs to be sustainable, and it needs to be relevant. So it's a combination of things. But the most profound is that sometimes learning and education has been put a few in companies. And my heart is actually now fundamentally. So how do we support the men and maybe also the co workers that is having the highest risk? Or the lagging behind? How would we support here, so no one is left behind.
Chris Rainey 39:04
Yeah, it goes back to your point a minute ago, right? That's where technology can help us because we can scale it. In the past, it was just, you know, the training for the senior leadership team, one day workshop, you know, bringing a coach etc. You couldn't scale that as well. And he definitely wasn't inclusive from that perspective. Whereas technology can really allow us to scale that now. So everyone's keyword give people the opportunity to take their own learning in to take learning into their own hands and feel empowered to take charge of their careers because for for a long time, we kind of many people just waiting to be tapped on the shoulder right to have an opportunity. But now being able to empower employees to take charge of their own learning and their own development and rescaling is really exciting. You know, it's very motivating.
Ulrika Biesèrt 39:57
And I think you move move to power So, and I also think that I always say that we should treat peoples as adults. As an adult, you're taking responsibility for your life. And you also see your own life, that we need to provide both the right environment but also the systematic way. So you can gain whatever you need to gain and want to get into develop. But I think it's key that you own your own competence development with the right support.
Chris Rainey 40:26
Yeah, for as organisations are always to create the environment that allows you to do that, right. That's our role. You also talk about responsible automation, IKEA. Can you explain that? A little bit? Yeah,
Ulrika Biesèrt 40:41
you use the word before, people first. And I think we we talk about people adding value. So let's face that organisation, and digitalization, we've changed the world work. And we need to deal with also for productivity. So we can't shy away from that. Having said that, I think we as an employer, really need to take responsibility to how you keep employable. So you need to start a conversation. And for me, it doesn't need to be threatening, because I think most job will actually be more engaging, and actually be maybe even more empowering. So let's not look at this as a threat, but still understand that organisations need to drive efficiencies to be staying competitive, and how do we then, in a proactive manner, support our co workers to stay employable? That has been our thinking,
Chris Rainey 41:36
ya know, it's really important, and it's gonna take some time for us to figure out the right combination, right and get again, but it's no one has the audience when it comes when it comes to this, as well, but I think as long as we're looking at it through that lens, whenever we're making decisions, or for what technologies and platforms that we look at it for people, people first lens, that's where that's where it should start. And in many ways, you'll very quickly realise whether that's the right product or solution, if you look at it through that lens, if that makes sense. And hold and start there as the foundation. Yeah. And then
Ulrika Biesèrt 42:13
there too, and I know this can be challenging for some companies, but we are in the fortunate situation, and that we can also think long term. So you know, long term and of course, here and now, but that helps us actually in the lenses also that, that it can also be seen as investment for a little bit longer time. And that is also sustainable, I think for the future.
Chris Rainey 42:36
Yeah. Well, look, I now I now we understand more why you've been there so long. Were to visit this. What would you say? Your I wasn't expecting to ask you this. But what given everything you've told me? What are you most proud of?
Ulrika Biesèrt 42:57
Do you mean workwise? Now, yeah,
Chris Rainey 42:59
just like you know, you've you've read all of the work you're doing. And when you kind of sit back and you're at home having a glass of wine. When you reflect what what are you most proud of?
Ulrika Biesèrt 43:11
I actually think it is how we showed up as an employer during the call Did you know when you're in a crisis situation, I think get the moment of truth show who you are as a company. And we were like everyone else totally caught on, have no clue what to do. And we didn't even know if we were going bankruptcy. So let's not forget that the environment we were in. But even though when I'm looking back now, because it became mostly a people topic. In every step, what we did, I'm so proud from how we decided to keep salaries, how we supported our co workers, we'd you know, child can support we gave and oops, get that that means appreciation and extra bonus. We super focus on mental well being because we saw that race we started and campaign that we call Are you okay? Where we actually decided to really tackle biases against mental health. It's an area that I'm very interested in. So you know, step by step by step what we did, we rescale 65,000 co workers we supported tokus in massive way. Also we, you know, we add the big fun for the most vulnerable coworkers also so they could support their families financially. So if I look at what we did in the speed, we did it where we redirected our business to more or less be you know, we were mostly operating in our stores and suddenly we were mostly operating online. I think we showed that our culture and values and action was real. So if we have Ever, which we haven't. But if anyone was doubting, do you have a real couch and values, people were just amazing the way they showed up. But they also told me I felt secure or that IKEA supporting me financially, emotionally, also with my family and so on. And then I can focus on the customer and then to get an OSI. So just amazing. You know, we came out the first year, we had good results, which I think is amazing. And we did coworker service, and they were just nearly I think we had 93% of the coworkers who said that I feel highly supported during COVID, which I think is just an amazing result. So I think and people and culture was, I would say, the main drivers through COVID, I think our leadership was really shows, sometimes before sometimes I feel that HR is seen as fluffy. I think that disappeared. I think everyone understands more profoundly, not only the people and culture function, but also that ultimately it is people that is doing the business. So it was much deep learning. So I think so I think that has been my most proud moment in my professional life is how we dealt with the COVID. And then unfortunately, it continued we do or Ukraine and energy crisis and so on. But But the big thing was to cope with actually,
Chris Rainey 46:29
yeah, and those employees will never ever forget that. No, you know, that will stay with them. You know, exactly. And anyone can kind of talk about their culture and values, etc. When times are good. But when times are bad, that's where you're really tested companies. Do you really live and breathe those values, and you demonstrate it for action, not for your words, not for words.
Ulrika Biesèrt 47:00
We stress tested our culture, and we actually pass the test. So and if you were coming to our organisation, I think actually I can say that in any store on you know, wherever we are operating a customer support and distribution centre, wherever people will say this, IKEA showed themself as a good employer during the really biggest crisis most of us have experienced. So that is my biggest fan. I
Chris Rainey 47:28
listen to Rick, I feel like I talk to you forever. But I gotta let you go at some point. Before I let you go. What advice would you give to those HR leaders of tomorrow, that are going to be sitting in your seat one day? What advice would you give
Ulrika Biesèrt 47:43
them? Firstly, I would say stay true to yourself and get to know yourself. I don't think you can be a good leader. But I don't think it can be a good HR leader without having a deep understanding about yourself and the influence you have on other people. Then you talked before about not staying in the comfort zone. The real learnings and the real growth happen in the uncomfortable it's happens in the unknown. So so even if you feel satisfied, everything is going well secure that you push yourself into the uncomfortable because that is where roses. And the last one I would say stay curious. I think curiosity is a foundation for learning. I think curiosity is a foundation for innovation and development. So that is my three, three recommendations. Stay true to your become authentic and know yourself. Really. Now, I forgot what I said. That's number two. But
Chris Rainey 48:46
you said I even even I forgot at this point. Okay. You will hear it again. Yeah. Everyone else heard it apart from me and you as well, but I appreciate you coming on. And absolutely, you know, a big fan of the product and the company. And it definitely helps when I hear the great things that are happening inside of it. And that's definitely reflected in the product. You know, I'm feeling it, I'm feeling it on my end, as a customer, you know, even the experience of going into an IKEA store, you know, it kind of permeates all the way through all the way all the way to the end user as well. So great job to you and the team and I wish you all the best until next week, and we'll see. We'll see how many more amazing years you have ahead of you in a row. Thanks so much. Take care. Have a nice day. Bye.