How Exclusive Networks Nurture Cyber Security's Next Generation of Professionals

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In this episode I'm joined by Laurence Galland, Chief People Officer at Exclusive Networks to discuss How Exclusive Networks Nurture Cyber Security's Next Generation of Professionals

Episode Highlights:

How Exclusive Networks are Nurturing the Next Generation of Cyber Security Professionals
How the Exclusive Academy is helping to bridge the talent gap
And the key strategies they are using to attract more women into cybersecurity

Chris Rainey 0:00
And they have the practical on hands on experience of working in the business, which is just as obviously, if not more important to how to see how it works.
Laurance 0:06
we have an umbrella with the exclusive academic concept. And then we have two pilots, one in the US and one in France, for instance, I'm showing a bit of travelling in France, in France, we have decided to invest on interns. That means to really train them at the earliest stage possible for them to be operational day one, when they will be fully graduated. What it means it means we have a three year programme, where we are combining lots of practical on the field experience, because they will work with as with the client, the customers, and that providing additional theoretical trainings on top of the school for them to get a high level of qualification and certification. And it's worth doing three years programme. And that means after three years of student will have something around 17 certification from technology from the market, which is very unique. That means it will be highly qualified and certified.
Tech and cyber not about gender, it just about appetite.
Chris 1:11
How does that Academy work?
Laurance 1:12
Yeah, it's making the main difference because cyberattack, I will being so fast, sometimes company, I'll be not reluctant, but they don't have time to invest. They want immediately to fix it because they want to protect the organisation which makes sense. So they prefer sometimes to hire experience, fresh graduate. And we realised that when we were hiring fresh graduates, let's be frank, we did initially one year and a half for them to do professional, which is very long, in a world moving so fast. So that that means after the three years there will be a professional day one. Yeah. And it's a massive difference. That's an amazing initiative like and they get to work in different parts of the business during that time are different functions. Yes. So in France, it will be mainly technical, okay, it's only technical, but the initiative we have in the US with California Polytechnic is more, let's say transverse in terms of for because it's, let's say 40% Technical for 2% sales, and the rest is more genuine as finance are looking at our workforce we have massively take that type of profile and technical ones so it's where we have to really secure the knowledge
Chris Rainey 2:36
Hello everyone, welcome back to the HR leaders podcast on today's episode I'm joined by Laura gallons who just Chief People Officer exclusive networks. During episode Lawrence shares how exclusive networks are nurturing the next generation of cybersecurity professionals, how the exclusive Academy is helping to bridge the talent gap and the key strategies they're using to attract more women into cybersecurity. As always, before we jump into the video, make sure you hit the subscribe button, turn on the notification bell and follow on your favourite podcast platform. That being said, let's jump in. Laura's Welcome to the show. How are you?
Laurance 3:11
I'm fine. Thanks for inviting me. Nice to see you. How's your weekend? Are you know in France? It has a everyday in in France, it was a bank holiday. So we had a long weekend.
Chris Rainey 3:23
Did you actually eat you ate was Monday for you? Yeah, exactly. Did you actually enjoy it? Or did you do work?
Laurance 3:29
No, no, no, no for one. Show pure fun and sensory. It was good.
Chris Rainey 3:35
Nice. Nice. Well, before we jump into the podcast, tell everyone a little bit more about you personally, and sort of your journey to where we are in your organisation today one little bit about the business as well.
Laurance 3:46
Yeah, sure. It's sort of great to have this kind of icebreaker. I turned 42 years old. I am a mom, I'm a mom, if I can say you have two teenagers that are 12 and 15 in seven days. And from a professional standpoint, I have to say that my full life has been in HR. And I'm a pure tech baby. I had all my career in the tech environment.
Before Executive Networks, I was headed a recruitment agency focusing on digital world and ecommerce and this type of stuff. And then I moved to startup focusing initially on retargeting, and it was a an amazing journey because I moved the company from 300 employees to 3000 you can even that has been probably 10 lives in the same company. And in this one I moved from recruitment to business partners, and then all my lifeabout how to support and how to enable the business to do even better, faster, and to be the best business ever.
Chris Rainey 4:50
Amazing. So firstly, if I need tell us a how you the journey from that organisation to the company that you're at now and a little bit more about the business for people to
Laurance 5:00
All the way? Yeah. So I did an extra deep networks three years ago, I will let you know a bit more about the business. But honestly, I was not looking for a job, I had been approached by a recruitment agency. And I was really not open to that. And, you know, I mean, has a good history able to be quite convincing. And let's be clear, the main reason why I don't exclusive networks, it was for the values. Since day one, that means I have been approached, I met the founder it for the French founder. And when I met the founder, I was like, okay, I can die for Gabriel. And to me, the only one way to do a good job, it's to be able to do more than just your day to day job. That just to give a sense of, you know, soul. And I have been convinced by I mean, the humidity, and all this type of value that I really like. So it was a no brainer to me, even if the challenge was quite hard, because when I joined, it was a job creation. So the company has been created 20 years ago, I joined only three years ago, it was to create the better fun. So it's a way to tell you that it was a huge challenge. What was some of the values that resonated with you, the vendors that was very key, and again, super close to my heart, the first one was humidity. The founder was always using Wi Fi and not high, when at some point he had been the visionary guy. And then it was every single better creative mindset, we will achieve together we want to achieve. And the last thing that will be important to me. And I have to say that it's hard to find in a company and more and more hard to find, if the fight not to have any toxic nation, that means it was not about personal agenda, it was not about ego, it was not about political game. And to me when you want to go further, you need to be sure that we are all in the same boat. So when I have seen that the leader was showing this type of value and stealing this type of value, I was feeling that when at the top leaders and this type of way to approach an organisation probably trying to hire people with a similar type of behaviour and values. So it was premiere? A good sign to me to give us I mean, either try. Yeah. And tell us a little bit more about the business itself. In a nutshell, what we are doing, we are protecting people data and properties against cyber attacks. And we all know that we have more and more stacks running, there are more and more sophisticated. We are working with vendors and reseller to predict the market. Yeah. So what was your kind of understanding of the industry from the outside versus going in? Because we will kind of hear cybersecurity, but what was your kind of perspective of the industry versus now when you're in it, that was quite convinced that with everything that is happening and to transition into a very even more digital world, it has to become the requested digital world because everything is digital now. So my conviction that my conviction story was, I don't know, what is it, and what is behind my knowledge in terms of pure technology is quite weak. But I'm quite sure that it's an area, I add to conviction. The first one was, I'm quite sure it's an area where the world will go more and more and more. So it's a very interesting one. And my second point was really about is meaningful. And, you know, I mean, I turned 42, as I said and supporting an organisation where I'm proud of predicting and doing something that has an impact on the on the world. It was very important for me
Chris Rainey 8:31
when we last spoke, you mentioned how you're prioritising human skills. I can imagine in an organisation around cybersecurity have a lot of technical capability, yes, skills. Is that one of the reasons why you're prioritising the human skills?
Laurance 8:47
I'm not trying to always size only human skin, because I won't lie by saying that technical is not important. Of course, as you said, it's super important. It's super important. And we have an exclusive something that is quite unique because we have a one to two ratio. That means we have one technical for two sales, which is totally unique. But again, the good news is because we have this unique, I mean technical knowledge internally, I knew that I can train people. I'm very convinced that in the company, even to attract people that have no clue but are sensitive to this environment that we that we are to carry on knowledge, I can train them what I don't know. And what I can not do myself is to train people, skills and human skills. I cannot teach to someone values. I cannot teach to someone behaviours, you know what I mean? So I prefer now to say, Okay, I'm sure that I am in front of me good human being, that we'd be very committed and very passionate with what they will do, and I wish them the job. So I won't say I mean, even the grades in between, but we know that we can shape and train and equip the future internally with the strong technical skills that we have.
Chris Rainey 9:57
From the the human skills Why is that so?
Laurance 10:00
Born In this day and age, I am always saying that the difference between a great organisation and an amazing one are the difference between a good team and an amazing one. It's never about skill set, it's always about decimal skills. Again, give your attitude commitment values. So again, when you want to do better than what you are doing, to me, you should probably change your beat your angle, and to get people more than their skill set or background, especially in an environment that is going so fast. I mean, cybersecurity is holding everything predates more sophisticated, so as to how to close the gap and to be always one step ahead. So better to have the good people, and then to equip them for success. Does that does that also benefit or link back to di as well? It's think as well, because we are very embracing the diversity or the overall topic. And the more diverse you are, the more which you are as well, that means you have more different angles perspective. So three, something is close to a heart. And we have in place d&i policy DNI metrics that we're already tracking, because we want to be as diverse as possible.
Chris Rainey 11:12
Is that as a challenge within your industry?
Laurance 11:17
To answer because industry wise, it is for sure. I mean, let's be clear, we don't have a high female representation in the cyber world. Internally, it's less the case, for different reason, access network, we have a strong brand, that means where we're going and good reputation. So I have to say that when I'm looking at data, we have 47, females in the organisation for 47% of female in the organisation, and 53, where we are combining lots of practical on the field experience, because they will work with us with the client, the customers, and that providing additional theoretical trainings on top of the school, for them to get a high level of qualification and certification, it's worth doing three years programme. And that means after three years of student will have something around 17 certification from technology from the market, which is very unique. That means it will be highly qualified and certified. And they have the practical on hands on experience of working in the business, which is just as obviously, if not more important to how to see how it works. Yeah, it's making the main difference. Because cyberattack, I will being so fast, sometimes companies will be not reluctant, but they don't have time to invest. They want immediately to fix it because they want to protect the organisation which makes sense. So they prefer sometimes to hire experience,fresh graduate, and realise that when we were hiring fresh graduates, let's be frank, we did initially one year and a half for them to get professional, which is a very long way. In a world moving so fast. So that that means after the three years, that means it will do professional day one. Yeah. And it's a massive difference.
Chris Rainey 13:04
That's an amazing initiative like, and they get to work in different parts of the business during that time. A different functions.
Laurance 13:11
Yes. So it's in France, it will be many technical, okay, it's only technical. But the initiative we have in the US with California Polytechnic is more, let's say transverse in terms of four because it's, let's say 40%, Technical 40% sales, and the rest is more functional, I mean, genuine, as finance. But if we're looking at our workforce, we have massively saving then the type of profile and technical ones. So it's where we have to really secure the knowledge of tomorrow. Yeah, nice. Great. I think I think that method of bringing in talent from early stages, is probably the best approach, in my opinion. Have you looked at the numbers from a cost perspective of what it takes to typically onboard? Someone who has experience versus nurturing the talent? And bringing them through the pipeline over three years? Yeah, yeah. So again, the reason why initially we were more, let's say, not afraid, but reluctant to do it. But now with the initiative, we will do it when we move. The point was with a ramp up the ramp and phase and how long we need to make them operational able, again, to be as close to the business. So in terms of investments. The good news is because this initiative is so disruptive, let's turn the market, we have the partnership with all vendors, that means to let's say co funded initiative, I will say the cost is missing, that the cost is partially absorb with the support of our vendors because, again, we are not doing vacating for sale for only, let's be clear the volume of interns are able to train is bigger than what we need at exclusive network for the future. So we have in mind that it's more kind of, let's say, market responsibility that we have. So with the funding of vendors and the sort of vendors, the cost could be ateasily absorbable with what we can generate in the future.
Chris Rainey 15:03
Yeah. How do you envision this evolving in the future?
Laurance 15:07
Yeah, we want to involve in that. So it was really to pilot initially. And now we are exploring how to expand from a geographical standpoint, okay. And we have in mind clinics in APAC, and in one or two additional country in Europe. But to make it right, you need to spend proper time because again, learning by doing, yeah, so we have the panel that we are learning from the students how we can get even more impactful for them. Because it's a stretch, when I met this last time, I told her that you will walk and you will work hard, and a lot. So for sure, for them, it's a significant additional piece of work on top of the studies. So we will expand the probably country by country to make it right. But the idea is,yeah, in the next few years, for five country, maybe
Chris Rainey 15:51
Wow, covering the academy, that's pretty incredible. It's pretty incredible what now you've had those conversations with some of the students, what was the key takeaways, the things that you've learned from them to you perhaps gonna change?
Laurance 16:03
The first takeaway has been that they really understand that it'sthat, you know, they're trying to compare with their peers, because for sure, we are not hiring all the students from the same school that are showing with our, with our peers and colleagues. And they are the feeling that the skill set they will have at the end is really unique. So their market, their interest, and their capability to really go where they want to go for their career is very clear in their mind. So that is a real plus what we have maybe not two bands, the workload, because there'll be it when you are students. On top of that you have skift, summer plus certification, and to certification is complex, you have to do homework, you have to study a lot to be able to go through, I mean to pass the exam, it's an it's an exam for each athlete. So that prevents where we have to understand that it's sort of for them to absorb, but so far is very successful. So it's kind of solving quite a few different problems for you one the skills, obviously, in the talent, but also it's going to help from a DI perspective. So you kind of have multiple benefits. Yeah, and it will help as well, something that is really key in this industry. And I mean, an overwhelming HR is a carrier plus, when you have everybody with the same level of experience in the company's M level, frustrates will be hard, because at some point, you know, we cannot create an individual opportunities. So being able to hire at the bottom is where you an opportunity to create a virtuous circle where everybody can grow develop, we have the most single one that will retire that are showing their experience and their knowledge to the young and new generation. And it's very, very virtuous. So for us, it's a way to add a better, let's say, not balanced, but the step and curious step in terms of characters. And the only one which we tend people is to help them to project and this opportunity to have a better at scale is very unique.
Chris Rainey 17:57
It's so fascinating the industry have because it's such a big war on talent
Laurance 18:03
is a small amount, like you said, and then you have the diversity piece to it as well. So I think it sounds like an incredible strategy. And I'm sure it helps both the colleges, universities, etc. They want partners like you to write because they want to have jobs and practical, would they study first and then join your three year programme? Or can they join your freeware programme? Purely with you can see that they have that growth mindset you see to have some technical skills already, like what level of experience they need to have just just to downstream. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no experience done. You know, it's purely interested admins, I'll just accept the fact that maybe they're personally passionate.Already touching at home a little bit that but no, no, no experience.They don't have anything, a sense of network sometimes, but none of its minimum is the reason why we are really combining our effort with school, two or three years combined to save them certainly on everything they should know. So no, it's a it's a really a look for requisite in terms of experience. The only thing is this, because we are a global organisation. So we need adding people able to operate in English.
Chris Rainey 19:09
But if the only one prerequisite was was a nice man sounds like a silly question. But what's to stop you from investing in them for three years and then just leaving at the end and go into a competitor?
Laurance 19:20
It's not it's a question because I told you, I'm not planning to. I should have said it this way. But I'm not planning to hire one of them. My strategy and the strategy of the company is to equip the market. So what we are putting in place, it's a kind of virtuous approach where after three years, some of them will decide to stay with us. In France for instance, some of them will decide to stay with us in another country because we are covering more than 45 countries. So they have quite a interesting geographical opportunity in front of them. But some of them we join on Windows, which is totally fine, because at some point is for the best of the market. And the reason why the Windows was mentioning their funding targetJust because the vendors are very happy to have the available products talent for tomorrow. So let's be clear. The first thing is we consider its mission we should have for the word of the cybersecurity two, three plan to equip the market. So it's not it's not selfish. Well, was that driven for? Oh, that's, that's pretty unusual, amazing, by the way. Not common
Chris Rainey 20:21
as well, like, what's all of the leadership on board? When you approached him with this idea? Or did it come from them? Like, how did this conversation come to life? I mean, I mean, was it a bit controversial at the beginning from it so that I'm very happy when people are leaving?
Laurance 20:35
I'm not sure. So I did not put it this way. No, I'm sure you did. I'm sure you didn't phrase it that way.Yeah, I'm friendly differently. But no, it was, it was quite clear your organisation able to do that. Why? Because, you know, we are in the middle of this ecosystem, that means we are touching already, all the technologies, we are working with a mouse that says is call reference than the of the market, and the new disruptive one. So I won't say that we are the only one company able to do that. But we are part of the unique company able to do that to train on everything and to equip young talent with all the technology. So it was quite clear to me like it was a good area, and the only one way to do it properly to do it at scale. So I'm totally fine with that. Because when you want to create to me,I'm happy for someone to leave the company to come back in two years. Because again, you know, it's a kind of circle. So I'm fine with that. And we honestly, we have to think outside of Extreme Networks, and we need to protect the world. Today, I can tell you that cyberattacksare going faster than what we can do. So we need to be one step ahead. The only one way to do it is to forget to manage the company and just be like, Okay, we need to equip governments, those people and all this type of organisation at the attack everyday, because honestly, the the losses in terms of the financial losses and in terms of reputation is massive, we have more than 3.5 Millions of cybersecurity roles that don't fit.So, for me, it's time to think about only us and what we need as a pipeline, we have to equip all because this volume ofworld and field will continue growing. So we have to reduce that as much as we can.
Chris Rainey 22:17
I think this goes back to what you said at the beginning that and this is really great that you you're truly living your values and purpose as a business. And your decisions are reflect that. Right? There's one thing saying it,but you're literally Yeah, you're demonstrating in the actions, you're taking the fact you're saying Hey, Chris isn't just about us. This is about the protecting people the world, the overall cybersecurity industry, we need to make sure that we're contributing to outside of our own business, which is you don't get many companies or industries doing that. But as an employee, when I see that, that's gonna make me more proud to work for a company like yours, right, which is because it was exactly my
Laurance 23:01
Yeah, it was exactly my point. At some point. You know, we want to have people proud of working with us and being able to project and I can tell you that are working their jobs in a while now. And sometimes it can be cliche, but a lot of people, a lot of people will tell you, it's about money. No, it's not about money, I can tell you that people that are stealing the company first is because they are proud of what they are doing. And the company values, it's when they can develop themselves and project a long term hire. And that is very key. Because today we have employees super proud of this type of initiative as well. And super happy to recommend because I mean, its employees, and I'm Datadog. So today, I can tell you that a lot of our employees are recommending, I don't know, brother or sister to join the Academy, because at some point, it's a transmission. Yeah. I can imagine like many years from now, when you have hundreds of those students have gone through that programme. You have all of them, each one of them is an ambassador with a very unique story about how with you whether it's them, going to one of your partners, etc, even competitors, they will remember that and, and that's what people you know, those ambassadors is where a lot of the talent comes from, like you saying Free to recommendations, referrals, they will come back, like you said, I'm sure you've had people return. Exactly the business. Exactly. To me, it's it was every single question of transmission and continuity. Yeah. And it's working well, you know, when we are looking at it, I can tell you that we are when people are leaving the company, because for sure, I mean, it does exist, probably 90% of them are saying that they will be more than happy to come back. And to me, it's exactly what we should do at the company. You know, we shouldn't be sure that when we have a story for him, for us to write the next chapter, it should be clear for for him, for him to stand to project when sometimes for any reason, we cannot do pretty much the expedition of industry in terms of I don't know, application or whatever.That we want him to leave considering that it has been a good experience and he's more than happy to recommendThe company and to come back if for any reason we can hire him back. So, to me, it's really beneficial.
Chris Rainey 25:06
I love it. What else is? What's that? Well, what's top of mind for you right now.
Laurance 25:12
What can I say so many things? I think that's something that is very important to me. And it's the transformation and the change management, I'm still operating in the HR function. Okay, so I'm convinced that HR, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean, it's never ending. Yeah, it's like being a man with teenagers, you know, because I have been convinced he's the one that HR is about business. You know, it's, it has been doing a long time, a back office, administrative function, which was okay. To me, it's way more than that, to me, and they try to change agents, able to support transformation, enabling the business and to do so I'm very continuing pushing HR to be very close to business. That means understanding what we are doing, how we are doing it, what are the KPIs, just because when you don't know, what you want to achieve at company level, it's a bit harder at an HR level to have the right initially because we can create tiles on the initiative everyday, but we need to create listings that will have an impact, fix, quick fix, or long term. So that is really key to me, top of my mind, I really want the church to become even more driven by the sense of business and sense of data. Yeah, that is a key a key key point. And I want as well to be even more efficient in talent management. Because you know, in any industry, when industry is going super fast, you need sometimes to produce and to be like, okay, if I'm taking time to develop people, time is flying. And to me, developing talents. Managing pool is not an option is not when you have time, it's part of the job. And it's part of the company responsibility. So I'm really pushing hard with my HR community to be sure that any leaders on top of the day to day job and the performance expected because again, we are doing business, before anything else we are doing, we are making business, just to show that talent development and in this type of areas are very key and very important. And the managers have priority. That first part you just mentioned about the business, from a practical sense, how you making sure that you and your team are close to their business. The first thing is HR, for sure, it is a strategy function of any leadership team. And when you are at the leadership table, in a country, in a region, wherever you are, every day or every week in discussion about well, margin business revenue. And that is a way to understand the way it works. And I'm always asking HR to raise their hand if they are unclear regarding what is discussed, because for sure, it can be very technical, let's say are very precise. Between the first thing he started the leadership team HR when they are keen in pushing initiative, I'm always asking what will be the outcome? What do you expect? If it's just to launch initially when sake of launching it, then yeah, I won't say don't care. But I normally what I want to understand is how you want to influence and what do you want to influence? And we can have different answer, but it's really kind of mindset. And let's see, when you're asking me how I'm doing it from you every single day to KPIs. That means I'm really asking HR to drive HR the same way we are driving business all the time with data to be able to predict, because, you know, Chris, I mean, you know, HR seems since away. HR by design could be so emotional. Everything was it was?Yeah. And it's fine, because for sure, it's about people. So it's normal to have feelings and emotion. But the only one way to manage rights, and fairly. It's to be driven by data. So to me adding an HR function, again, super close to business data, but HR data as well, is a top priority. And it's probably make the priority every morning.
Chris Rainey 28:55
Yeah. What would you say is like the biggest challenge that you faced in in terms of becoming a data driven HR leader?
Laurance 29:02
Because that isn't typically typically, you know, when I first came into the function, that wasn't very much the case, right? So there's been a lot of growth and learning I'm sure. So we'll say is the biggest challenge, personally, that it's take. I mean, I don't know, personally, but the biggest challenge I have is to make data accurate, because writing data is good. But the prerequisite is to make it accurate.
Chris Rainey 29:24
That's true.
Laurance 29:27
Using dummy data, you have to track the data, because each key, you have to trust one with the central data. So that is really a super important challenge and approval and probably the main one and the capability to give a sense beyond the data because the data by itself as a value is when it moves. When is the story behind what is the explanation? It's when you're looking at gender diversity ratio, you have the data point you have the target, what it means, what we want to do with that and what it initiative, what is a story. So it's all these types of strategic aspects behind the data, the data is a prerequisite. But it's not the end of the story. Again, like you said it also, that's why you need to understand the business. Because you have to have the why they'll go the caveats of where we're going.
Chris Rainey 30:12
And that's why that and then that informs the direction that you take with you in the team, right?
Laurance 30:17
Totally. Otherwise, you just kind of going in a million directions, like you said, is like, and especially and it's great to do that. And we created the functions three years ago. So I can do that every day. I cannot tell them the conditions I want. But well, I mentioned to that choice change agent. So we need to be sure that any initiative is why we are doing it, what do we want to achieve? Because we have more than 2500 employees that have to understand why we are doing things and that like, you know, cumulate, accumulating so many initiative just to show something, to me, it's not about Sure. You know, it's really about adding an impact.
Chris Rainey 30:55
What are some of the tools and technologies are using at the moment to start here I see.
Laurance 31:01
We are quite well mix between homemade tools and tools that we leverage from the market. But spa get my priority again, for me the tree just to the ICO. So I'm not a huge, picky person in terms of tools. My top priorities are smoking, the usage the addiction, yeah. So I would say that any tools could work as long as the user is understand why he's using it. And what's the best way to what we do is that, for me, as long as a ledger has qualitative, constructive and the right level of discussion with an employee, I'm fine with that. So I'm trying to explain some times, okay, capturing it in a in a system at some point, long, sometimes boring sometimes as well. But it should take two minutes, because all the rest is important. Discussion, the feedback, the regular, we should not wait every year to get a feedback. So again, tools to me it's purely purely a vehicle. And so far, again, is between made and local tools that we're leveraging, with a global scale.
You made a good point now, because a lot of people will kind of rely heavily on the toes, but they missed the whole point of in the foot, like you said, people don't know employees aren't thinking about, it'd be that they can go read it in inside of their system. They're thinking about the conversation had with their manager, do I feel valued?
Chris Rainey 32:23
I don't have a voice just being heard, right. And that conversation between the manager and employee, that's what really matters, not the fact that it was captured? Yes, we have to do that. Great to have it. But you need to prepare your managers and your leaders and your employees for those conversations. So put your energy there instead.As well, you're right. Listen, before I let you go, I'm going to jump into our quickfire round. So I'm gonna ask you some questions, but you only have 30 seconds per question. Are you ready?
Okay, what are your hobbies outside of the office?
Laurance 33:01
Just one will be an easy one. I'm very ordinary type of person. So very basic. I'm fascinated by my son, their growth. I can attend a day without reading a book. So purely classic type of hobby, so okay, 22nd. That's fine.
Chris Rainey 33:15
No, no, no glass of wine to go along with the book.
Laurance 33:18
It could be usually it won't be glass of wine, it will be glass of pina colada, but it can be even better, even better. They can be a bit demanding. Yeah.
Chris Rainey 33:30
What about what if you could change one thing about HR? What would you change?
Laurance 33:35
I do think that I would change something in terms of perception. Because to me, HR is not about being kind, it's about being fair. And it can be very subtle as a difference. But I can tell you that with a lot of confusion. And to me, the HR function, it's to be fair, all the time and to be You cannot imagine how many employee came to me sometimes to the neurons. And we'll be fine with my rating my assessment, but very frustrated to see that although Department not the ethics receiver, but in my previous life, although department are not applying the same rules and isn't fair. And people need to feel fairly treated. To me. It's crucial.HR, it's about fairness, kindness, I really like that one. How would you say that? You're cute. Thank you, Chris.
Chris Rainey 34:22
How would you say your kids and family would describe what you do for a living?
Laurance 34:27
Yeah, so my kids and my two teenage girls are probably by us because they are using a lot at home. But I do think that they will compare my role at work and my mother and they will say okay, so you're doing a bit the same job. You are equipping your employee for growth, you are highly demanding. You are showing direct and indirect type of feedback. So honestly for them, they will see easier parallel between the two roles and I think that they are right, because it's not that far. Yeah, it I love that love that you
Chris Rainey 34:59
If you wasn't working in HR, what do you think you'd be doing? In like, work wise, career wise, you know,
Laurance 35:06
potentially two things. Either I would have managed a bookshop. I'm just in love with books. So bookshelf could have been an option. And the second option could have been to manage, you know, a kind of retirement home, you know, because I think we will have to take care of the coldest person. And I think that there's so many too, you know, in terms of legacy transmission, so to read, to take care, and to drive this type of, you know, organisation or home, or whatever, we can call that
Chris Rainey 35:38
I was not expecting those answers, but I love it. That's why I love asking that question.What is the biggest investment that you've made in yourself?
Laurance 35:48
I would say that maybe it's the answer you expected, but probably it's quitting comfortable jobs, or perdition I had in the past, just to always be aligned with my values. And to be able to respect myself and to recognise myself in the mirror, even if I was very, very, in a comfortable position.
Chris Rainey 36:08
So lovely things to be sometimes that's such a good answer to the question was similar to like all my answer, no, like, No, I like that one. Because it's like, it's quite unusual, because normally people say something practical and specific, like, education or something like that. But sometimes the biggest investment we can make in ourselves is to challenge ourselves and to quit and push ourselves forward. Right, that is an investment to take risks, risks, days. Yeah. And that's something that all of the HR leaders that successful HR leaders I speak to have in common, they've taken risks. They've taken jobs they didn't think they were prepared for they've moved countries that they work with different cultures having, and it's been a challenge, but that's what shaped them, and made them successful. Yeah. Last question.
What advice would you give to the HR leaders of tomorrow,
notice, so
Laurance 36:57
he doesn't engineer all I would say two
my two advices would be two advices. The first one to be brave. So it will be strange, but you have to be brave. Again, being a good leader, people leader, HR leader or whatever, it's not about again, being carried on being good news messenger. It's about being brave, able to share constructive, but negative feedback, sometimes making tough decision. And to me bravery is a, it's not that easy to find. So it's hard to find. But I would say you have to be brave, you have to be in the driver's seat and to make a decision, and to assume that and the student advice would be probably just because he's really close to my values to stay super far from that could be toxic in a company. Excessive ego, political games, I mentioned that at the beginning. But to me, you are sitting so much time when you are operating with these type of toxic things around you. So it's making a huge difference. And I'm convinced that you can grow, develop, and do a lot of thinking in a company without compromising with who you are. So you have just to stay good human being. And to make any compromise with these type of things. From my point of view, just my two cents.
Chris Rainey 38:09
Love it. Well, listen, I appreciate you coming on the show. I've really enjoyed it. And I'm super happy to have been invited.And before I let you go, where can people connect with you? If they want to say hi? Say hello, where's the best place?
Laurance 38:24
LinkedIn? Yeah, LinkedIn. People would love to connect. Part of one reason we do to podcasters was to bring different leaders together, right? So I'm sure there's so many other peers of yours that would love to connect and reach out. So that's why I asked that question. Yeah, and I appreciate that because I was very fascinated by the previous podcast you have done so well, expanding an HR community. So yeah, that's what it's all about. Always happy to connect. Yeah. Well, listen, I wish you all the best until next week, and enjoy the rest your day. Thanks a lot.
Thank you, Chris.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai