How to Lead Under Pressure Without Losing Yourself
In this episode of the HR Leaders Podcast, Mechelle Monroe, former Global Chief People Officer for WPP Open X, Team Coca-Cola at WPP, explores how people leaders can support others without losing touch with what they need themselves.
Mechelle breaks emotional resilience into practical habits, including scheduled emotional maintenance, conscious breathing, honest self-talk, protected meals, movement, reflection, and knowing when to say no. She also explains how naming an emotion, questioning the story behind it, and creating a clear end to the working day can stop difficult moments from following leaders home.
As work becomes faster and more technical, emotional intelligence and emotional resilience become more valuable, not less. For leaders carrying other people’s stress, the real question is not how much more they can absorb, but whether they have built the capacity to pause, recover, and keep showing up well.
🎓 In this episode, Mechelle discusses:
How to challenge your internal story by naming emotions, asking yourself better questions, and looking for evidence
Why emotional resilience matters alongside emotional intelligence when leaders are facing constant pressure and change
How to stop carrying difficult conversations home by creating physical and mental transitions at the end of the working day
The small warning sign that your emotional reserve is depleted, even before you realize how much pressure you are carrying
What emotional maintenance looks like in practice, from protecting lunch and reflection time to consciously breathing and knowing when to say no
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Michelle, what kind of show? How are you doing?
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I am well, how are you?
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When's the last time we spoke?
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Last year, sometime, maybe in the fall. Yes,
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been a while, haven't it? Or late summer. We both said that time's flying way too quickly. What's up?
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I just remember it was a very early morning call. You watched the sun rise behind me.
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Oh wow. So I have to blame my team for booking in such an early call. No,
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I do. I start early anyway, but it was early. Yeah. That'll be the opposite,
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man. You would not want to see me at that time. I would be like crawling to the computer. I don't know how you did that. So that was our first. So what took us so long to get here?
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I
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don't know. So we were at the Unleash. Yeah. So that was May of last year.
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I don't know. I think just everything, like, you know.
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Well, no, no, wait, isn't it, did we not meet at Unleash or did we met just before? We did.
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We met at Unleash. Okay.
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We met in person at Unleash. Yeah. And we did the call and now we're here we are. Yep. Wow. That kind of seems like yesterday. It's kind of
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cool. Well, it was less than a year full circle. So that's good.
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Yeah. Well, how's the new year start treating you so far?
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Fast start.
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It's a fast start to the new year. It's February 3rd, literally. I mean.
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Yeah. Before we jump in, tell everyone a little bit more about you personally and your background
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and then the journey to where we are now. Sure. So Michelle Monroe, I am the chief people client officer for WPP OpenX, which is a large bespoke team that we built within all of our agencies and regions, specifically for a key client. I have been in HR now a little over 20 years in various industries, advertising most prominently, as well as health, as well as tech out with a tech startup.
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And I kind of fell into HR. I was pre-med. I wanted to be a psychiatrist. Okay.
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And I also wanted to be an attorney. So HR ended up being this happy blend of people, legal compliance, as well as business strategy. So yeah.
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I don't know what it is with so many people
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nearly becoming lawyers and then going into HR. There's so many. My co-founder Guillermo is a former Citro, IBM Boeing chief learning officer. He always calls himself a recovering lawyer. Like that's like, he's constantly saying, there's a lot out there.
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There is. I actually worked in family law for six and a half years back in California. So you were in,
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in, you really?
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Okay. Yeah. I was like a law clerk and I was like, you know what? They take home a lot of homework, all these pleadings and things. Yeah. Well,
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now you're doing the same thing.
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Yeah. Now you realize that the farther up you go, there's always
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homework. Yeah. No, no worries. When did you know that HR was the career that you really, like you tasted it, but then when did you really know that this is the route you're gonna go down?
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So I like dipped my toe in. I was the person that did the personality assessments when candidates were coming through the door, right? So I would do the various personality assessments and overlay their results. With the team they may come and work with to figure out, like, you know, the probability of them being a high performing team with this new addition or how it impact dynamics. And I was like, oh, it's all kind of like this.
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I like this.
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And I think also one of my CEOs who really showed me how well HR is meant to partner with the business, like it's not separate. We walk in lock step. And that really helped reframe the next iteration of my career for me. And I was like, oh, okay. Like, this is actually kind of fun. You solve complex problems.
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You get to help people. And I find it extremely satisfying and enjoyable. Well,
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the good news is you're still smiling.
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I am. (Laughing)
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It's like you got a smile for her as well. What's off of mind for you right now? When we were speaking, you sent over some really interesting topics, which I was like, oh, excited to jump into this, but you know, we haven't spoken in a while. What's off of mind for you right now?
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You know, I think most people right now, wherever they are in the world, are experiencing some amount of pressure, stress, right? Especially as HR professionals, we are the go-to within everyone's orbit in our organization.
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And so it gets also piled on. So I like to think a lot about, I took a step back actually and thought a lot about like, well, how do I get through each day, right? Because people, the variable that is people, there are no two days that are the same.
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And you know, we talk a lot about AI, especially right now and its impact on organizations, its impact on just humanity as a whole. But you know, the compliment to that is definitely emotional intelligence. And the compliment to emotional intelligence is emotional resilience. So I wanted to, you know,
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talk a little bit about that. I love that.
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With all the talk of AI, this is a much needed topic. And I think it actually is actually the most important. Like now with AI, you have all of the technical capability. It's all there, where you have access to the world's knowledge. I think it's those power skills. I'm not gonna use the word soft skills because I think it kind of has a stigma there. Power skills are the most important. Now more than ever, with everyone being so overwhelmed with the pace of change that's happened around us.
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And there's something even me personally, like I said before you recorded, I've had to learn to take a step back myself and say, okay, I need to focus in order for me to be the best
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CEO, husband, dad, I need to focus on me first. And that's not being selfish, right? Whereas in the past I would think that would be, was how am I supposed to show up for them if I can't show up for me?
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Right, right. That makes sense. Absolutely, yeah, you have to, you know, you have to, we're all on planes. They tell us to put on our emergency mask first before you help someone else.
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It's the same kind of example as you go through. You can't assist others in whatever they're experiencing unless you've named what you're experiencing and you can separate the two, right? Like that's also super important is to be able to separate what's mine and what someone else's and then package that up and do what you need to with it. Yeah,
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one of the things I've gotten better at and I think it is about reps is like just a self-awareness piece. Yep. Like, so for you, like what are some of the signs that you typically see when you're not doing okay? Like that now you recognize that perhaps in the past you didn't, if that makes sense.
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Yeah, that's a good question.
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You know, when it feels like even the smallest things right, so when I'm not doing well, it's hard for me to engage in even the most
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low effort things, right? Like, and I know a lot of people feel this because you have to pivot from different things every day, varying degrees of challenges or problems. And when you can't tap in for even the smallest things like, okay, I'm at the point, I'm beyond the point of where I should have been to do something about this basically.
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Yeah, so what have you put in place now to ensure some balance,
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perhaps? Yeah, I mean, look, I think emotional maintenance is very important. If we think about how we go through life with like a car, for instance, you know, you get regular oil change, if you have an EV, it has to go and you have to go charge it. Right? You know, it needs to be washed. You know, everything in our life requires some level of maintenance. If you have a plant, it needs watering, it needs to be put in sunlight, some more so than others. And I think we forget as humans that are especially helping other humans, how important it is for us to schedule in regular maintenance, because then you're filling up that tanks to when you need it, you can access that reserve, you know, and it looks different for everybody. I know that wellness is a term that is, you know, applicable in organizations. People love, they live a wellness lifestyle. I go on wellness retreats, but it looks differently, right? Like, you know, emotional maintenance could be saying no to something and letting no be a complete sentence, right? It could be, you know, every day I meditate, right? I set aside time for myself.
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It could be a reflection exercise, right? Where you sit at the end of the day and you really reflect on what your day was like, what you could have done better, accepting what you did. You know, walks, like people underestimate the ability to just get out in nature and walk.
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But just scheduling time for emotional maintenance so that you have it and can tap into when you need it is extremely important. Yeah. Yeah. Rest. Yeah. A nap.
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Yeah. I love the fact that you, the important point there is schedule as well. Right? Because if you don't, you'll fill it with something else and you won't do it. So like, I'm just telling a couple of my friends about this and they found that really strange. So they're like, oh, you scheduled time to have fun or you scheduled time to relax. So that means you're working too hard. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. That's like, like, that's not how it works. I don't get to, you know, have a very busy schedule on lifestyle like you do. So like, I need to schedule that time. Otherwise it won't happen. Yeah. What are some of the things that really help with your emotional regulation that work for you?
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Yeah. You know, sometimes if I'm on a difficult call, right, you know, most HR, every HR person can relate to being the owner of some difficult conversations at certain times.
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You know, it's sometimes it's hard to compartmentalize those things and go on to the next thing.
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You know, sometimes I have like a little stress toy that I'll squeeze underneath.
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You were then what you can
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see.
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I think self-talk is very important as well. Like, how are you explaining these things to yourself and in what way?
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You know, breathing, breathing is, people take for granted, I think, that it just happens. And when you actually do it consciously, like you take a moment to take deep breaths, it has a huge impact. Like, I like to do Pilates. I love it for the strength and, you know, it makes me stronger physically. But also for an hour, I'm laying on a reformer machine, not always, you know what I mean? For an hour, breathing, conscious, connecting mind to body. And that's a great reset, too. You know, making sure you're getting good meals. Like, you talk about scheduling fun. I schedule my lunch on my calendar. I like,
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it
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says lunch and it says, do not touch purple, right? It's like color coded. Yeah. Because like, even if I just do a quick, a quick snack, I still need that time. Yeah. Yeah. No, I
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love that. I've been, I actually posted a video on Instagram. I don't really, I'm not really on Instagram, but I posted a few months ago and it was all about self talk because I noticed, um, I noticed it because I was like, wasn't doing great. Things aren't like, you know, I was just wasn't in a good mental state. Like I
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was
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like, I was like, something's not right. And I was like, reflecting on it. And I was like, oh, it's my negative self talk. Like I guess there's a certain point in my life. I was really obsessed with that. Like to the point where I would like, I have playlists on my phone that just like I fall asleep to listening, positive affirmations like that, like that level where I wake up and my subconscious mind is just being programmed by all the things that I am going to achieve. And I already have. Right. And, um, it just was a really good reminder. So I made the video, yes, to put out for people, but I made it for myself.
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Like I made a video for me, uh, as a reminder, you know, and I always kind of think like, is what I'm saying, doing, thinking right now, getting me closer to my goals. And if it's not, then move, stop doing it.
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Yeah. Right.
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Because it's just that negative risk. Like, and your, your brain doesn't know the difference between reality
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and you talking to yourself, right? It
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doesn't, it starts to rewire a path. Right. Negative or positively. However, you're framing things.
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Exactly. For years, I was really good at controlling and I just felt lost it for a few months. And I was like, Oh, okay. Now I catch myself saying something out loud. Like, Nope.
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No, no. So that's a really important one. I think some things that can help with that, which I do as well is like just gratitude. Like, so I mean, I kind of make it a habit with my daughter every day before bed and sometimes in the morning, but mainly before bed, just to talk about what we're grateful for. She's seven. So she's saying all sorts of weird and wonderful things. But it's just like a really cool exercise to just always do because you can have a terrible bad day and whatever. And then when you kind of reflect and you just have that moment of like, wow, I'm really lucky. I'm really grateful for what I have right now. But sometimes you get lost and you forget how lucky we are. Really. If you reflect on it.
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Yeah. Even the not so great experiences, I like to say, I'm grateful for that experience. Yeah. And I'm also grateful it's over.
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Yeah. Cause you didn't,
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cause that's what you learn and grow and stretch, right? So you should never not have those. I'm constantly seeking discomfort and growth. It's where I, it's like where I live, but I can tell you. Yeah. I don't know, but there's a balance, right? Like, and a lot of times I go too far. Um, when you kind of feel yourself naturally in HR, who would have talked about this a lot when you do for yourself, maybe getting like triggered, like what helps you calm down under pressure?
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Well,
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that's a good question. Um, but you know, I like to just remind myself that it's all just temporary. Um, and then I also, you know, I'm, most people in HR are in that space because they have a lot of empathy, right? Um, and so it is hard not to, it is hard to reframe or take a step back how you're feeling about things. But the flip side of that is like how much I'm giving empathy, how much empathy am I also going to give back to myself? Right. And so, um, a reframing things always as this is just temporary. I'll be okay no matter what happens, right? Things will be okay no matter what happens because I, you have the confidence that you know it will. And also the experience, right? Like that's, that's what emotional resilience is a muscle that teaches you over time that, oh, I've experienced that. Let me connect that to this and understand, you know, um, what worked for me then let's reapply it now. So it's really like taking a pause. It's taking a pause to then have that whole process play out and you have to literally be mindful to be able to do it. Um, you know, like emotional resilience is a capacity, right? It's like your capacity for things and it can grow. And just like you said earlier, emotional intelligence is a skill which you can develop over time. And I think they both feed into each other. So the more data you have around the emotions you're experiencing and naming them, you're, the greater your ability it is to do something about them. And then the loop just continues.
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Yeah. No, I think, um, oh, you said so many great things there. Um, I think one of the things that really helped me with my anxiety, because for years, for like 20 years, I was having like panic attacks and stuff and no one knew, like my wife didn't know Shane, the team. And I think one of the most powerful things was I didn't know what it was. And the moment I named it, it was a game changer because then I can actually look at like figuring out, like, you know, I was like, Oh, this is what it is. This is why I'm feeling this way. This is chemically what's happening in my body. Oh, I'm not going to, I'm not going to die. Cause I feel like, cause I'm in a heart attack, right? Every time I had a panic, I was like, Oh, that's what's happening. And I'm going to have this sort of adrenaline spike and it's only going to last for five minutes. So I'll be fine. And it was like, literally like the moment I could put a label on it and the name it, it was like, by the way, I have never had a panic attack ever since that day. Yeah. Like, cause I'm like, Oh, this is what it is. And if I do feel like that, I know I got some coping, I've got some mechanisms, like whether it's box breathing or whether it's actually now, just quite honestly, being able to pick up the phone and just talk to someone and not feeling ashamed or embarrassed. Yeah. Because before it was like, I had anxiety about having anxiety, which is kind of crazy, right? Like,
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because I don't want to tell no one. It's real.
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So I was like, I was like, so that was making me feel more anxious, like a vicious circle. And the moment I could name it and be like, Oh, okay, this is what it is. And I'm like a curious person. I'm like researching, like, no, it's reading up on it. And I'm like, Oh, okay, this is what's happening. And okay, let me change my lifestyle. I want you to focus on my sleep and my fitness. And just like, I think that part you said there is really, really important.
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It empowers you when you can name it.
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Yeah. And it's like, you know, sometimes I have to speak, sometimes I speak to myself the same way I would speak to my six year old nephew, right? So like, you think about kids, like when they fall,
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lots of times they look back and they're waiting for your reaction to their fall, right? So if you say things like, Oh my God, are you okay? Versus you're okay. Right? The pickup or the resolve is a little different. Also, I say things like, you know, when I'm trying to name what I'm experiencing,
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tell me more, like I'll say that in my head, like, tell me more. Like, why are you like, what's the evidence of that? Right? Like, where's the evidence of why you feel that way? And if I can't find it, then I know that it's not real. Or if I can, I'm saying, tell me more. You like digging and digging and digging. That's how I also speak to my nephew. Like when he says things to me, I'm like, you know, tell me more. He tells me more. So just like being able to create like these very short cut conversation starters with yourself are very important in those moments. Yeah.
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I also like the part that you said about, it is something that you can build. Like, like there is, is like the more, I mean, obviously not saying you should always have terrible experiences, but the more experience, the more resilience you, the muscle grows. Right? Yeah. Things that years ago would have been like devastating to me. Now I'm just like, it's just normal. Like we lost a huge client at the beginning of the year, no fault of our own, because they were having some challenges, but it was a multiple six figure hit to me and Shane. And we're like, cool. Like, literally, they've been devastating before. We're like, cool. How do we look back and be miserable and moan about it and complain? We took about 10 minutes to be upset. And now we're like, what's the game plan? Literally, before I would have been, I would have been like, oh my God, this is crazy. Right? It's a
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muscle. And then also, you know what I've found has been really helpful. And I actually had a conversation with my team about this literally a little over a week ago.
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You also have to build in things for yourself to look forward to. Right. That's also builds up that emotional resilience. It is about the muscle and what you do when you've had these negative experiences, but to also build it up, you build in things that you look forward to. Right. For some people that may be going to movies,
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going to the museum, right? Or you're planning a trip, or it could be as simple as a great meal. Like just building in things in your day or in a future state that you look forward to, it gets you through some of these rough patches. Yeah, I agree.
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And I think that's when it's about where you connect your why and your purpose. So for me, when I'm going through really hard times, it's not like the extra deal I'm getting at work and signing in to a client that's going to get me through those moments. It's actually like what I'm trying to build and achieve for Natasha and Robin and the future that I want to build and how I connect that to the business and the work that we do in the life that we have. Like that's the important thing because when times are tough, I'm not excited about that. That's not what's getting me through. It's like my foundation is my purpose and my why and in everything that will get me for everything. If you ever, I believe if you have a really strong purpose and a strong why, you can get through it almost anything in life. Yeah, I agree. As well, and I wasn't really good at like taking time out, making those moments that you just said. And I would always like make the excuse that I can't.
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And now I'm like, no, well, if I'm going to work this hard and do all of this, then I'm going to take some time out and enjoy it. I'm like, what's the point? Yes, exactly. How do you, you know, you also need to stay empathetic without, I mean, in work and you're having conversations with a lot, a lot. How do you do that without taking everything home with you? That baggage, that emotional.
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It used to be it was actually easier when I was in an office all the time, right? Because you have that physical separation. Literally at the end of the day, you walk away from your desk, you get on an elevator, go down the stairs, and there's room to separate from whatever was hard about the day.
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Now that I travel quite a bit, I work mostly remote, do come into the office on a less frequent basis. It's a little harder to separate because my commute is shorter, right? So for me, I like to go on a walk. And even if the weather is not great, I'll go walk on a little walking pad or something like that. Just something to create a separation.
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And sometimes if it's a really rough day, I like to write it out. Oh, okay. Yeah, like, oh, this happened. Here's maybe what could have been different.
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Outstanding things to go back to, other problems left out there to go solve, so that I just get rid of it mentally. You want to just create some level of, I think of it like a windshield wiper, right? Like write it down and you're wiping the windshield and then you can kind of move on because your brain is tucked it away somewhere then.
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And it's different for everybody. I think everybody has to find the groove that's right for them.
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I used to love to do walking calls, especially if they're going to be a difficult call.
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I like to stand in meetings and just move around a little bit to get things flowing, change of energy. Yeah. I use,
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I love that point about writing it down. I use a similar, my coach helped me with this, because I really struggled with sleep. Recording stopped. Sorry, that's a Zoom signal that.
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I really struggled with sleep. So like what I would, I know, because I'll be thinking about all these things I have on my plate that I've got to do tomorrow or, you know, things I haven't solved. Like, you know, there's a lot and writing it all down before I go to sleep. It's been, that's like game changer. Do
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you write it with your hand or do you write like in notes?
[01:26:50:12 - 01:26:59:06]
I do in notes. I should do it in my hands. I know I should do it. I shouldn't do it with my phone, but I'm more consistent when I do it in my phone.
[01:26:59:06 - 01:27:06:03]
I just like to ask the question because it's kind of like 50 50 when I ask people like at this point, how they. It's literally in my
[01:27:06:03 - 01:27:26:24]
notes. Yeah. On my phone. And when I read it the next day, sometimes I don't even make sense. Literally, I just used to get out. Like I'm like, otherwise I just will spend the whole night just laying in bed, like for hours trying to get asleep, but just thinking about it and knowing it's there. I'm like, okay, I can do it. And then I wake up and then I can deal with it in the morning.
[01:27:26:24 - 01:27:40:21]
Because to that point, you read it in the next, you read it the next morning and some things haven't made sense. Imagine how long you would have been ruminating over that in your mind. I listen to something that I've had
[01:27:40:21 - 01:27:42:17]
emails that thank God I never sent.
[01:27:44:02 - 01:28:09:02]
Like I've literally had, you know, like, like knee jerk reaction stuff that I'm thinking about that I now have written it down and I've read the next day and been like, oh, that would not have been the right decision. Or that is not a good perspective. To look at this through. So that's also, it helps me that way as well. Because like you read it back and go with a fresh, fresh brain that's had sleep. You're like, oh, okay, that's fine.
[01:28:10:03 - 01:28:26:19]
So that yeah, that's been a really good journal. And it's a really interesting one. I wish I should do it with a pen. Honestly, I haven't like, I don't, I hardly ever use a pen and paper anymore. It's terrible. Yeah. Everything's just on devices. Kind of bad. I wonder what the impact of that is.
[01:28:28:07 - 01:28:38:24]
I don't know, but sometimes I mean, I do both, but I do like to rationalize putting things in my phone because then it's with me wherever I am. Right.
[01:28:40:15 - 01:28:48:20]
Whereas like a journal, it's a little hard to transport this and then, you know, like go through old ones. Yeah. So I want to be one of those
[01:28:48:20 - 01:28:56:07]
digital ones, but I just never used it. Like, you know, where you write with a pen and then it. On a pad. And then it basically comes in your notes.
[01:28:57:13 - 01:30:02:10]
So the pen like tracks what you're writing and then you have a digital copy. But I was just like, I was just like, I'm just, I'm just adding an unnecessary step. Yeah. It was cool for like a week. I was like, I'm going to stop using this now to be able to do it. What I used to do is when I would write down like my goals and, and the positive affirmations, I would write those down. There was something about physically writing it and the connect, like the fact that you're using your eyes, you're physically moved, like basically you're kind of like using all your senses when you're writing. Yeah. And I, and I would also add a, add me saying it out loud. So I would say it out loud whilst I'm writing it and I'm hearing myself say out loud. Does that make sense? So like, I'm basically like every sense is basically involved. And then, when I was in sales, I was obsessed with this. Whenever I would get a new product or a new sales pitch, I would write it out like hundreds of times.
[01:30:03:12 - 01:30:20:06]
Yeah. Like, and that's, and I like, and to the point where people are like, oh, you don't even have a script. I'm like, I am the script. Like I know, and by the way, it was even this kind of embarrassing to say this, but I'll say it, I'd even record it on my phone and I would fall asleep and I would do it every night.
[01:30:21:10 - 01:30:46:16]
So my subconscious was just like listening to this sales pitch on repeat. This is when I was really hungry and was like, I'm no longer going to be poor growing up. I was like, I was like, literally, is this what it takes? And I read it somewhere and I was like, all right, cool. I'm going to write it out every night. I'm going to say it out loud. I'm going to record it. I'm going to listen to it every day. And I never needed a script because it was just, it was in every objection, every anything. Anyone would ask me, I was ready to
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go. Yeah. It's a life hack. Yeah. It's definitely a hack.
[01:30:50:16 - 01:30:53:22]
Yeah. Yeah. Because reading it for me, I never really, um,
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I don't, when I read, I don't obtain it. I don't keep the information. Whereas when I listen, or I visually watch something, I can remember everything. And I realized that for me, I was reading, reading, and I was like, I can't retain any of this stuff. Like by reading it, then I was like, what if I just listened to it? And all of a sudden I was like, oh,
[01:31:12:14 - 01:31:20:00]
have you ever tried reading the book and then also listening to the audio book at the same time? Whoa.
[01:31:20:00 - 01:31:21:05]
No, that's crazy.
[01:31:21:05 - 01:31:25:11]
It is. It's crazy. Kind of like watching a movie. Wow.
[01:31:25:11 - 01:31:42:12]
Yeah. And I only do audio books now because I just can't like retain the information when I read. I've always been like, since I was a kid, like I always struggled. And then I, only as an adult, I wish I knew this as a, as a kid, like, I was surprised you didn't even have that back then though. But now I just, I listened to something and I just remember it all.
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Yeah, that's good. You found your shortcut. Yeah.
[01:31:45:14 - 01:32:07:08]
I found my shortcut. I was like, I wish I knew this when I was in school, because I really struggled. Like to memorize something off a piece of paper was really rough to be able to do that. Um, yeah. What would you say is like, I got a random question for you that is randomly came up. What's one of your, um, what's one like superpower or skill that you have that you're going to be able to understand and know about?
[01:32:12:17 - 01:32:13:10]
Um,
[01:32:15:13 - 01:33:43:19]
I'm pretty intuitive, but I think a lot of people know that. I think of my, like my close colleagues know that by now. Um, I'm kind of good at coming in and intuitively understanding a person, a situation, I can see past the surface, um, not just at work, but personally as well. Um, it's, it's so, it's interesting. Like, you know, your, your body tells you a lot of different things. And when I was a kid, my, my mom used to, and you come home from school, you know, she would ask me questions like, how'd you feel today? Right. Um, did your tummy hurt? Right. Cause you feel certain sensations in different parts of your body when you're in different situations. Were you around anyone that where you felt your tummy hurt or uncomfortable, right? And just asking certain questions to cue in on my senses around people, I sharpen that along the way. And so I, I do consider myself to be pretty intuitive and empathetic. And it allows me to shortcut to your point around like the audio book. Um, it helps me to shortcut past what someone is saying versus what they really mean.
[01:33:43:19 - 01:34:03:07]
Yeah. Wow. It's so interesting. Cause it's not something people talk about a lot because it's, you can't quantify it. Yeah. So, but I'm with you. Like, um, I definitely wouldn't say I'm like where you are on that, but like, um, I have a thing, which I still don't know how to describe
[01:34:04:17 - 01:34:47:05]
where like I have, uh, there was one guest that told me, um, the name of it. And I forgot right now. I actually found a guy who wrote a book on this exact thing cause I thought I was a, I thought I was a weirdo for years to try and explain this to people that when we're talking, like when I'm having a conversation with you right now, I have a second voice that I have a conversation with. I love this. So, uh, it sounds insane, right? And there's an, oh, oh, Shane noise remembers the name of the, it's a real thing. And I, for years I didn't tell anyone, I was like, this is weird. And it, and it made me an insane salesperson because I would be able to have a conversation with a client. And I have the second voice saying, how's this call going?
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Are
[01:34:49:06 - 01:35:21:03]
you addressing their needs? Like, basically I'm like coaching myself in right now, right? Like, and I can do it while still, I could be in the middle of talking and still talking at the same time. And, uh, I thought everyone did that. Like I thought that was a normal thing. And then, um, superpowers. Yeah. It is one of my superpowers and, uh, it helps me in every part of my life. Cause I'm like, even when I'm in like really frustrated, I, that other voice will come in and be like, Hey, Chris, what's happening?
[01:35:22:07 - 01:35:22:10]
You
[01:35:22:10 - 01:35:24:08]
have your own built-in like feedback loop.
[01:35:24:08 - 01:35:51:10]
Yeah, basically. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, oh, I wish I could remember the name of it. And, um, I found this guy who wrote a book on it and I interviewed him a couple of years ago, and he was talking about like, like, you know, he was like, no, like, he was a tiny percentage of the population that have that, like, you know, um, and he was like, walking me through it. Um, and he's like, the interesting thing I was like, okay, so how do you, how does it, how is it developed? What do you think? What do you think is the cause of it?
[01:35:53:10 - 01:36:01:22]
Have it, have a guess. What do you think like in, in all of the research he did with all the people that have it, there was one thing that they all experienced.
[01:36:01:22 - 01:36:04:08]
Tell
[01:36:04:08 - 01:36:08:22]
me now I'm really curious. You feel the trauma. Well,
[01:36:08:22 - 01:36:52:23]
right. So when he kind of, you started asking me questions about my childhood and stuff, right. And I was like, okay, why is he asking me these questions? And he was like, because there was a lot of like domestic violence and crazy stuff happening in my house growing up. And it was like, I like built in like protection. Like, so when everything was going crazy, I just could be escape in my own mind with that person or with me, if that makes sense. And he was like, he knew straight away, like, and I was like, what? He was like, yeah, like you, you, that was something as a guitar that helped you cope and get you through that. And then it kind of built from there. I was like, whoa.
[01:36:52:23 - 01:37:13:20]
I love though, how the voice that you created out of that circumstances wasn't self-critical. Yeah. And a lot of instances of trauma, it ends up being a very negative self-critical voice, right? Which is why I wouldn't have guessed that. Maybe that's the flip side.
[01:37:13:20 - 01:38:45:21]
Yeah. Maybe you go one or the other ways, right? Like, yeah, you're right. It could have been, I spent the rest of my life, like, you know, and I had, don't get me wrong, that voice has also been the same voice. There's been, you know, you impostor syndrome massively because, you know, uneducated. So when I first, for years, I'd always feel like everyone around me had like, you know, degrees and whatever. And I never even went to school. For years that like, oh, I grew up poor and everyone else, no one else around me could relate to that. There's a lot of like shame and curiosity about that for a long time. And then I realized, oh, wow, this is my superpower. Oh my God. Like this whole time. Yeah. Like the thing I thought was my biggest weakness is actually the thing that is why I'm so successful because my level of resilience is so much higher. Not, and I wouldn't wish my child had known anyone by the way, but like it built a level of resilience of like, having to get a job at 15, 16 to support my mum and my younger brother. Yeah. Like to support myself, to just grow up quick, to be self-sufficient, to like, you know, when I'm like, people are like, such a hard day. I'm like, really, dude? We don't even know if I got electricity or food when I get home. And you're telling me about a client that said, no, do you want the phone? Come on. It's like, come on. This is fine. The day is good. It's a good day. So, yeah. So I will remember the name of what it is one day, but I can always forget about it. But yeah, that's like, yeah, I mean, I'll remember it straight after this podcast and I'll be really annoyed
[01:38:47:14 - 01:39:43:17]
as well. But yeah, it's, it's like a second voice. And because the funny thing is in sales, we used to do that. That was my job. So as a sales director, I would like every phone had another phone attached. This is old school is like 10 days out 20 years ago, right? Before we had computers on our desks. So every phone had a second phone. So as my sales reps are pitching, I would pick up the phone and I would, I would second voice says we would call it them through. So the customers are given objection. I would talk, I would talk them for it cause I can hear it, but the customer can't hear me. Gotcha. And then they're looking at me and it is basically whatever I say that they're rep saying it, right? So like, but I had that in my head already, like that exact physical scenario of what was happening. I already had that. I thought it was because of sales that I developed it, but I've always had that. Yeah. Like early on. So yeah, it's a, it's only probably the second time I've even shared that. It's kind of weird to say it out loud. It's
[01:39:43:17 - 01:39:45:16]
really dope, actually. It's really, yes.
[01:39:45:16 - 01:39:55:18]
Yeah. Um, I'll call it, you go at some point. Cause I enjoy talking to you way too much. And, uh, we've got to go. I said 30 minutes. We've been an hour.
[01:39:55:18 - 01:39:59:13]
Yeah. Been knowing that's what happened the last time we were in the
[01:39:59:13 - 01:40:01:08]
cold. I know. That's why
[01:40:01:08 - 01:40:02:06]
I met by the sun.
[01:40:03:06 - 01:40:07:17]
Oh, is that that? Oh, well, listen, listen to keep up that late. They went down. That could have been, yeah,
[01:40:07:17 - 01:40:09:02]
no, it just came up.
[01:40:09:02 - 01:40:43:01]
Yeah. Well, I'll let you go. Um, first thing I really enjoyed the conversation same. And I'm really happy that we, we, we, we touched on these topics. Cause this is not what we, what HR leaders don't talk about enough, but really should. Yeah. Of all the talk of AI and everything. We can, you know, we can, we can talk about that. And we, but this is the stuff that people don't really talk about. So I appreciate you taking the time to talk about it and share it. Cause I think it will help a lot of people listening. They'd be like, Oh, it's not just me. I'm not alone.
[01:40:43:01 - 01:40:58:00]
Not just you. There is no HR for HR. It's just, it's just us out here in the wild, having these types of conversations that filter back to other HR people. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But we have to HR for ourselves. Yeah.
[01:40:58:00 - 01:41:03:04]
Um, parting piece of advice for everyone. And then we'll say goodbye.
[01:41:03:04 - 01:41:06:02]
Um, you know,
[01:41:07:18 - 01:42:03:03]
I think the gratitude is the most important piece. Um, and even being grateful for what you would consider a negative experience, I think unlocks the ability for more positive experiences to come your way. And, you know, there is a very strong feedback loop between emotional resilience and emotional intelligence. And the more you feed one, you feed the other. And especially in times right now where there's a lot of change in your industries, a lot of change in your organizations, a lot of change in our macro environments. Um, serving yourself up first is really important to being able to serve help to the next person. Yeah.
[01:42:03:03 - 01:42:18:00]
Well, I think we're ended there. I think there's no better other words to say, but I appreciate you as always. I always enjoy our conversations and I never, I never know where they're going to go, which is why, which is why I love them the most. And, uh, I hope I get to see you face to face soon.
[01:42:18:00 - 01:42:20:18]
Yeah. Maybe in a couple of weeks. Yeah.
[01:42:20:18 - 01:42:21:21]
Thanks so
[01:42:21:21 - 01:42:24:11]
much. Absolutely. All right. Take care.
Mechelle Monroe, former Global Chief People Officer for WPP Open X, Team Coca-Cola at WPP.