How to Use AI Without Losing the Human Side of Work
In this episode of the HR Leaders Podcast, I had an inspiring conversation with Jennifer M. Bales, Chief Human Resources Officer at Shearwater Health, to unpack how HR leaders can build culture, scale talent, and use AI without losing the human behind the work.
Jennifer shares how Shearwater Health is connecting values, frontline employees, clinical talent, leadership development, engagement data, and employee storytelling across the US, India, and the Philippines. With more than 5,000 employees in the Philippines alone, she explains why building one shared culture takes more than posters, surveys, or slogans.
Most importantly, Jennifer explains why the future of healthcare work is not about replacing people with technology. It is about helping clinicians work at the top of their license, reducing administrative burden, strengthening leadership capability, and remembering that behind every metric is a real person.
🎓 In this episode, Jennifer discusses:
Why there is always a person behind every data point
Why AI should help clinicians work at the top of their license
Why leadership development, coaching quality, and 90-day retention are key culture metrics
How Shearwater is building nursing talent pipelines through academies and hospital partnerships
How Shearwater Health built values with input from employees across the US, India, and the Philippines
What if AI agents were not just another way to create more learning content?
What if the talent you need is already inside your organisation, but hidden in skills no one has mapped yet?
That is what 365Talents helps HR teams solve with AI-driven skills intelligence.
It helps organisations see the real skills their people already have, spot gaps, and turn that insight into workforce planning, internal mobility, and better career paths.
That is why 365Talents created the 2026 HR Skills Strategy Toolkit.
14 ready-to-use templates to help HR leaders build the business case, calculate ROI, evaluate vendors, define governance, and roll out a skills strategy that actually moves.
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Always remember the people. There's always a person
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behind a data point. There's a human behind a
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story. And so for me, what's been helpful
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over all of my time is remembering it's
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not a percentage, it's a person. How do you get to
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building those percentages up or making better results?
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It's going to be through the people.
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It's going to be through purpose and intent. So how do you reach them?
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How do you get them? It's bigger than the data. It's the person behind the data.
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Hey, Jan, welcome to the show. How are you doing?
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I'm doing great, Chris. How are you?
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I'm good. So I see that you came in and just immediately showed off that you're
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such a great place to work
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in the background.
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Congratulations.
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We're very proud. Yes.
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Congrats.
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Thank you.
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Wear your badge of pride. I love it.
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Yeah, and we got it in all three countries again this year.
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So we feel really
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excited to just
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hear from our employees and-
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Amazing
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... we're certified in India, Philippines, and the US.
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Yeah, I saw the Philippines one. You have a big population there?
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We do. Just about over 5,000 employees in the Philippines.
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Wow.
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So-
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Wow. I think-
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... it's quite a big group
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... I saw you did an event recently in the Philippines.
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I saw a post on LinkedIn. Maybe I'm making this up, but I feel like I saw that.
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Nope, I think you are right. So
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the bird is part of our logo, and we do
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annual meetings in the US, and this was our first time to do it in the Philippines
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and India, called Nest Week.
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Oh, I did see that.
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So kind of bringing everyone into the nest.
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Yeah.
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Super great event. Strategy, development, collaboration, and
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connection. Because in the Philippines and India, well,
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in the Philippines specifically, we have about over 80% of our folks are
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remote and work from home. So that's an opportunity to bring a lot
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of-
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Nice
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... our leaders together. So it was great.
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That's nice.
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Yes.
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Yeah, I saw the photo of the team. Was it on stage, I believe?
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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Yep.
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Yeah. Okay. Amazing.
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Yeah.
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All right, before we go forward, I want to go back a little bit.
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Okay.
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Tell everyone a little bit about yourself personally and sort of your background
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and journey to where we are now, and then a little bit about Shearwater Health,
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in case people aren't aware of the organization.
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Sure. Absolutely. So sometimes I like to tell a
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fun fact
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about me. I was one of those people who actually, in college,
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did major in business human resources.
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Oh my God, you're like one in a million.
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Back in the day.
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You're like one in like-
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Back in the day.
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You're definitely a minority.
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Yeah.
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And I loved it. I had a really great experience in high
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school, actually, and got introduced to HR, and then have been in it
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ever since. And I'll tell you, obviously, it's changed so much over
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time. And it's just really been a fantastic journey
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to see how HR has evolved from personnel,
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that's really dating-
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I know
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... up to the strategic partner that it is today.
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So I've had the good fortune to work in small
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nonprofits, Outward Bound,
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to really large multinational,
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including Starbucks for 11 years, Vail Resorts,
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and here at Shearwater for three. We are also a global
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healthcare services organization.
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So really different businesses, but at the core
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is HR,
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and all the things that we can do to really impact the business.
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Yeah. I also noticed in your career, and I don't know if this is intentional or
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not, that many of the organizations you've been with have a large
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frontline population.
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Yes, very much.
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Part of my kind of
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leadership
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vision, if you will, is impact, is bringing purpose.
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I do it both in my personal life,
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in nonprofits that I've been involved in,
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but helping folks really find purpose and meaning in what they
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do. Whether it is being a liftie at a ski
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resort, a barista serving coffee, one of our
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nurses, either at the bedside or looking at medical coding,
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making a difference in what they do.
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So frontline has always definitely attracted me in the HR
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space.
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Yeah. I was wondering. You know what I find is most leaders that I speak to, like
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yourself, once they stay in industries that have a big
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frontline, they normally tend to stay there.
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Yes.
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I don't know if you noticed that. I just-
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I've changed industries-
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Yeah, industries, but-
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... but the frontline is the piece that is the consistent piece, for sure.
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And how do you connect-
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Yeah
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... and again, engage
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that workforce in meaningful work?
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What does that look like in practice?
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Because you are right, because typically, that population is normally kind of
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underserved in many ways. But if you
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can filter that all the way down, that purpose, to the
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frontline, the boots on the ground, that's where you can have so much impact.
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But it's not easy. So how do you-
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Yeah
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... make sure that those values show up, and that can connect with
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people's purpose every day?
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You know, for this question, I think I'll use Shearwater.
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Because we actually
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went through a whole values refresh exercise in 2025, and
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very intentionally
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included our frontline. We included all of our employees in
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that process,
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both in the Philippines, India, and the US.
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And one of the reasons, Chris, to do that was because we did want to hear
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what matters most. What is aspirational to
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you? What do you enjoy about Shearwater? What do you think we can do better?
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And again, what can we all aspire to together?
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So we did a whole series of focus groups We did look at our
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GPTW data, our Great Place to Work survey data.
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So we have a lot of rich data in there, but we also did very
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intentional direct focus groups in each country to hear
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what's important, what's important to them.
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And I will say the values we have today are
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representative of all of those voices and feedback,
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and I think that's one of the things that makes a difference because they were
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listened to. It resonates with them.
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It wasn't created over here in the US by
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one leader. It really was created collectively together, and
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I think that has made a difference.
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That's one of the many things, though, that makes a difference.
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Our turnover is down significantly in the last few years,
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much better than market. Happy to share some numbers.
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But I think those are some of the reasons why when you listen and can make it
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real so that that purpose, that when you're coming in every day,
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you can understand what you're doing is making a difference.
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Yeah. Is that what I seen,
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where the acronym is, or the word is IMPACT, right?
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It is IMPACT, yes. So each letter-
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Yeah
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... is a value. So I can go through them, but yes.
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I've got-
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Innovate to accelerate is the first one.
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Yeah. I've got them here.
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Yeah.
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I was looking.
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By the way, good job to whoever does your LinkedIn, by the way.
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Oh.
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A shout-out to them, by the way, because I was on there today just having a look
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through, and I was like, "This is actually really good content"
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on there.
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Well, thank you.
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And a good job of celebrating it. And, one of those ones I saw, which to your
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point, is mission motivated, which you describe as,
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"Healthcare is our calling, not just our career." So to
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your point earlier, how do you connect that together?
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And that kind of stood out to me. And like you said, you've got innovate to
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accelerate, curiosity, and grit fuel smart, fast
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solutions, which is not something that healthcare's known for, to be honest.
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Normally it's running slow, safety.
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So I love that sort of agility in there.
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Passion for people,
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which obviously you talk about relationships, power, better outcomes.
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Act as a leader, which I love. And then, together trust
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drives shared success. And then
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you've got champion growth.
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Growth. Mm-hmm.
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And then you've got last one. Was it think beyond limits?
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We challenge the status quo for global impact. I love that, by the way.
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We challenge the status quo for global impact.
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That's probably one of my favorite ones.
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Something I talk about internally with our team is always challenging the status
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quo, why do we do things this way, and then it opens up a different
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conversation and dialogue.
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Very much.
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Yeah.
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Yep.
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So.
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And I think one of the unique things
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we've done with our values too is we have our values awards in the
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US during the Nest week, and then we have our values awards in the
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Philippines and India as well. And again, there's so many great
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stories that come out of the nominations for
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those, and
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it reinforced these are the right values for us-
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Yeah
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... right now, too. So many.
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As of right now, as you know I'm sure from speaking with your colleagues, sort of
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the HR operating model itself is
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kind of going through its own transformation and change with AI and
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everything that's coming along. How do you ensure that you pull what we just
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discussed through and connect the HR strategy with the
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business strategy, and kind of maybe tie that
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all around the business mission?
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So I think when we think
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about AI and how it's impacting us
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here at SureWater,
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it really is about helping our
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clinicians work at the top of their license.
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Mm.
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So what I mean by that, Chris, is so when we look at
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the Philippines and India side specifically, and then I can talk about the US,
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the Philippine and India side is truly the clinical process outsourcing.
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That's the work that's been around for about 15 years, medical
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coding, utilization management, care management,
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so a lot of back of house functions.
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And a lot of that
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does require a US RN. It can require a Philippine
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RN. There's different clinicians that that requires.
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And a lot of the work sometimes is working in different systems and pulling
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information to review and make clinical decisions,
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and a lot of that time
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is what we really are excited that AI can help us with.
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Yeah.
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So
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summarizing information, bringing it all together, really
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creating a lot of efficiencies so those clinical folks
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can really use their
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license, but use their license at the top of their license so they're
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not spending time in as much administrivia, and
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truly operating using their clinical
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knowledge to make decisions. So we still will have a human in the
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loop-
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Yeah
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... for sure in many of the work that we
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do. So it will change what we do, but it won't
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change who we are as SureWater. It won't change our mission.
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In fact, we think it will actually support our mission even
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further because we're able to create a lot of these
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efficiencies and help our clients faster,
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better, farther, stronger.
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Yeah.
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So it will still come back to us in
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HR to
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do what you're talking about, make sure that we're communicating, sharing our
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stories on LinkedIn, developing our people, bringing them together
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because we're a remote. How do we create that one SureWater and
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continue building on our culture?
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Yeah. It's interesting you said that because I was
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recently at
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my-- visited my doctor. And we have the NHS, as you
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know, in the UK, right? And then we have private healthcare.
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In this case,
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I use both depending on what I need, right?
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And one of the big differences I notice from going to the NHS, because my daughter
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was unwell recently, we went there, is that they're not engaged
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with the patient because they're writing everything down.
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Right? So it's hard for them to be engaged with you and be fully in the moment
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and really, because they're writing it.
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Sorry, this it gets worse. They're writing it on the computer,
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and then they have to have a manual copy of it.
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Oh, wow. Okay.
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A written copy.
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Yes.
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So I was like: You type it all in there, then you have to write...
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And because I was just being me and I was asking her, I was like: "Can I just ask
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you a question about how you do this?"
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Yeah.
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And they're like: "Yeah, we have to have a written copy." And I remember when my
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wife was pregnant, they had to have a whole folder like this thick of
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manual records, right? So think about how exhausting that is for them.
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Right.
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To have to be present, write it all in the computer,
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then have a physical copy of it.
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Yes.
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And in contrast to that, a few months later, I visited my doctor in
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private healthcare. Completely engaged in the entire conversation.
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I could see the AI note-taking
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tool. He had a little, just really cool little hardware device on the table that he
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just taps, and it records the whole conversation.
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Yes.
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Game changer.
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Game changer.
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And he was like, oh, making out notes. He just turned his screen.
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He was like: "Oh, making out notes in my system.
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I get to spend..." And now, I think he's increased the amount of patients he can
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see by 50%. How insane is that? And obviously, he's enjoying his job more because
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no one wants to sit there
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and write down all of the notes. You might forget something.
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Right.
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And also, he was like, they're also playing around with the AI now.
299
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We're actually giving prompts and recommendation. It'd be more predictive.
300
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Or maybe, have you thought about this?
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Right.
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Because they said that, right? And bring it all together.
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Sorry, I went down a rabbit hole, but I noticed that first hand.
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No, I love it.
305
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I felt more seen, and I felt more heard.
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And in a moment of when you're not feeling great, that's kind of how you want to
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feel.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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And not only increased the number of patients he or she
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saw, but the time with each patient-
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Yes, exactly
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... was more focused.
314
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You're not rushed. Yeah, because you always feel like you're rushed out the door.
315
00:14:06.746 --> 00:14:06.746
Right.
316
00:14:06.776 --> 00:14:09.156
That's how I felt with that beforehand.
317
00:14:09.196 --> 00:14:11.776
You always feel like they're just trying to get quickly, "Here you go.
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Here's a prescription. Goodbye."
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Right.
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And they don't want to do that. They're under pressure to see-
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100%
322
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... that many people-
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Yeah
324
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... as well. So I love that. I think that's where, but to your point,
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it's what contrasts the belief
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the technology is actually enabling us to be more human.
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Yes.
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Not replaced, but actually-
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More present
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... more present. It's the opposite of what everyone's, "Oh, it's going to take
331
00:14:36.736 --> 00:14:38.345
away." No, it's going to allow you to spend more time.
332
00:14:38.656 --> 00:14:40.956
Your recruiters can spend more time with candidates.
333
00:14:41.376 --> 00:14:41.496
Yes.
334
00:14:41.516 --> 00:14:43.116
They can spend more time with your business.
335
00:14:43.146 --> 00:14:43.146
And more time.
336
00:14:43.216 --> 00:14:43.416
Yeah.
337
00:14:44.176 --> 00:14:45.786
Yeah. More time using your
338
00:14:46.596 --> 00:14:48.986
license. More time using your education.
339
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100%.
340
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As well.
341
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Very exciting. I also saw
342
00:14:52.956 --> 00:14:56.296
on maybe, I feel like I'm stalking your LinkedIn now.
343
00:14:56.836 --> 00:15:00.176
Did I see some announcement at some point from your CEO saying you're
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doubling
345
00:15:02.356 --> 00:15:03.396
your amount of hires?
346
00:15:04.796 --> 00:15:08.716
Or by 2027, there was sort of a target that, I
347
00:15:08.736 --> 00:15:10.676
remember seeing it and being like, "Wow." It was a big number.
348
00:15:12.746 --> 00:15:16.196
We do anticipate significant growth in the next year.
349
00:15:16.416 --> 00:15:16.596
Yeah.
350
00:15:16.676 --> 00:15:18.056
I can't reveal all of that.
351
00:15:18.176 --> 00:15:18.416
Okay.
352
00:15:18.946 --> 00:15:19.236
But yes.
353
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Sorry.
354
00:15:19.796 --> 00:15:20.456
We do-
355
00:15:20.606 --> 00:15:20.976
Get you in trouble.
356
00:15:21.396 --> 00:15:23.556
At least 30% is what we-
357
00:15:23.926 --> 00:15:24.056
Okay. Wow
358
00:15:24.076 --> 00:15:24.356
... think.
359
00:15:25.836 --> 00:15:26.006
And-
360
00:15:26.256 --> 00:15:28.796
Which will be primarily Philippines and India. Yeah.
361
00:15:28.856 --> 00:15:32.796
Yeah. And is there a shortage right now of skilled
362
00:15:32.856 --> 00:15:33.586
workers in this space?
363
00:15:33.736 --> 00:15:35.646
There is a shortage. And
364
00:15:36.636 --> 00:15:40.456
one of the statistics we look at is even in the US, because, again, a
365
00:15:40.516 --> 00:15:43.776
lot of our clients are those who offshore
366
00:15:43.876 --> 00:15:47.336
USRNs, and in the US right now, between now and
367
00:15:47.496 --> 00:15:48.176
2032,
368
00:15:49.056 --> 00:15:52.816
193,000 is the projected nurse
369
00:15:52.996 --> 00:15:53.516
shortage.
370
00:15:53.936 --> 00:15:54.256
Wow.
371
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193,000. So
372
00:15:57.856 --> 00:15:59.916
yes, there has been a nurse shortage.
373
00:15:59.986 --> 00:16:02.516
There will continue to be, unfortunately, for some time.
374
00:16:02.856 --> 00:16:06.696
I think there's a lot of great things happening in the US
375
00:16:06.836 --> 00:16:10.456
and in other areas, too, where there's a lot more
376
00:16:10.496 --> 00:16:13.856
schools coming up to support nurse
377
00:16:13.916 --> 00:16:17.846
education. But yes, it has been an industry
378
00:16:17.896 --> 00:16:20.676
that has been largely underrepresented.
379
00:16:20.896 --> 00:16:24.736
Yeah. Has that, in any way, influenced your efforts to double down and
380
00:16:24.756 --> 00:16:27.716
ensure that Shearwater Health is a
381
00:16:29.796 --> 00:16:33.375
desired place to work? A great place to work, it's right on the screen.
382
00:16:34.276 --> 00:16:34.286
Yes.
383
00:16:34.286 --> 00:16:38.136
And ensuring that you have that, because I wasn't aware of you
384
00:16:38.196 --> 00:16:42.186
guys before the team reached out, and then I was like: Oh, wow, I should've
385
00:16:42.196 --> 00:16:42.596
been aware.
386
00:16:43.596 --> 00:16:45.416
And I thought, but has that been a
387
00:16:46.796 --> 00:16:49.776
real effort from the team to ensure that that is the case?
388
00:16:50.976 --> 00:16:54.726
It really is, and I can share a couple of things that we do in the
389
00:16:54.736 --> 00:16:58.036
Philippines specifically to support that.
390
00:16:58.316 --> 00:17:01.196
We have a USRN academy in the Philippines.
391
00:17:01.306 --> 00:17:05.096
So again, there's a lot of USRNs that are in the market today, but there's
392
00:17:05.176 --> 00:17:09.146
also ones that are coming straight from hospital who have
393
00:17:09.196 --> 00:17:13.056
the hospital bedside experience, who then also want to move into
394
00:17:13.096 --> 00:17:14.616
the clinical process outsourcing.
395
00:17:14.716 --> 00:17:18.556
So we actually have an academy that can create that USRN,
396
00:17:19.517 --> 00:17:21.836
so that can help them get their USRN license.
397
00:17:22.046 --> 00:17:25.997
So we have an in-house academy for that, and then we have a whole host of
398
00:17:26.036 --> 00:17:29.476
hospital partnerships in the Philippines as well, where we
399
00:17:29.556 --> 00:17:30.496
are
400
00:17:32.056 --> 00:17:35.956
sponsoring scholars who will stay at
401
00:17:35.996 --> 00:17:39.556
their hospitals for a couple of years while they're getting their bedside
402
00:17:39.596 --> 00:17:40.296
experience-
403
00:17:40.306 --> 00:17:40.306
Nice
404
00:17:40.306 --> 00:17:44.096
... and then coming to work for us. So it's a
405
00:17:44.176 --> 00:17:47.976
really good balance, where they're also supporting their hospitals and the need
406
00:17:48.036 --> 00:17:51.696
that obviously, the Philippines and other countries have similar
407
00:17:52.056 --> 00:17:54.076
cases where there's a nurse shortage.
408
00:17:54.136 --> 00:17:57.976
So it's a great relationship where they're getting hospital
409
00:17:58.036 --> 00:18:01.726
experience and can stay, and then when they're ready, they can come
410
00:18:01.796 --> 00:18:04.756
over and join Shearwater. So kind of
411
00:18:04.876 --> 00:18:08.756
different ways that we're trying to support that pipeline.
412
00:18:08.836 --> 00:18:12.516
Yeah. No, I love that, and I see many organizations moving towards that as well,
413
00:18:12.576 --> 00:18:15.096
and it ensures that sort of time to
414
00:18:16.856 --> 00:18:19.796
proficiency, time to capability, whatever that may look like, right?
415
00:18:19.916 --> 00:18:23.536
But also getting the reps in, the experience, like you mentioned
416
00:18:23.576 --> 00:18:25.256
earlier, in the hospitals, right?
417
00:18:25.596 --> 00:18:28.896
But I love the fact that you and the team are taking charge of that because with
418
00:18:28.936 --> 00:18:31.470
that level of shortage, we have to. You know?
419
00:18:31.470 --> 00:18:33.370
We, yes. We have to get creative.
420
00:18:33.460 --> 00:18:36.450
We have to get creative. And, it's a win-win, right?
421
00:18:36.460 --> 00:18:39.180
For the hospitals, they're getting to learn on the job.
422
00:18:39.320 --> 00:18:40.700
Right, and then you can develop that.
423
00:18:41.020 --> 00:18:44.300
The accreditation you just mentioned, is that
424
00:18:44.340 --> 00:18:46.530
something you are able to do internally?
425
00:18:46.840 --> 00:18:50.220
So we have a USRN academy that helps our scholars
426
00:18:50.380 --> 00:18:53.980
learn and then get ready to take the test, which is called an
427
00:18:54.100 --> 00:18:54.660
NCLEX.
428
00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:55.160
Okay.
429
00:18:55.580 --> 00:18:58.040
So we don't administer the test, but we do help them-
430
00:18:58.160 --> 00:18:58.520
Nice
431
00:18:58.760 --> 00:19:02.130
... go through our program to then be ready to-
432
00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:02.580
Amazing
433
00:19:02.590 --> 00:19:02.770
... take the test.
434
00:19:02.770 --> 00:19:04.339
Sorry, I don't know any of this stuff. Sorry.
435
00:19:05.890 --> 00:19:06.210
I just
436
00:19:06.460 --> 00:19:06.790
Yeah, no. I love your question. Great.
437
00:19:06.790 --> 00:19:09.700
Yeah. No, but I love that. And is that something that people can just apply?
438
00:19:09.800 --> 00:19:13.380
How would they get involved? Like, do they apply on the website?
439
00:19:13.500 --> 00:19:14.900
What's the typical way?
440
00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:16.260
Do a lot of outreach.
441
00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:18.660
So we do a lot of branding.
442
00:19:19.580 --> 00:19:23.210
So there's outreach on our part, then there's the scholarships that we do with our
443
00:19:23.280 --> 00:19:23.860
hospitals-
444
00:19:24.080 --> 00:19:24.260
Mm-hmm
445
00:19:24.340 --> 00:19:27.790
... to bring folks into that. And then, Chris, we also have
446
00:19:28.580 --> 00:19:32.390
a lot of already hired folks that are PHRNs,
447
00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:34.610
which is our Philippine licensed nurse.
448
00:19:35.100 --> 00:19:39.060
And so sometimes for their career, they would like to move into
449
00:19:39.100 --> 00:19:41.560
the academy, and pass the-
450
00:19:41.600 --> 00:19:41.719
Fantastic
451
00:19:41.730 --> 00:19:45.380
... NCLEX and become a USRN. So different clients
452
00:19:45.500 --> 00:19:49.460
require different levels of work, depending on the work that
453
00:19:49.520 --> 00:19:53.010
it is. So it can be, we call it a land and
454
00:19:53.060 --> 00:19:53.740
expand-
455
00:19:54.660 --> 00:19:58.400
... career with us. You can land in one role and truly
456
00:19:58.460 --> 00:20:02.160
expand, whether you want to move up, kind of within,
457
00:20:02.200 --> 00:20:06.100
a team leader, an operations manager, or if you want to expand
458
00:20:06.120 --> 00:20:06.670
your clinical-
459
00:20:07.580 --> 00:20:07.730
Yeah
460
00:20:07.730 --> 00:20:09.440
... capability. You have that opportunity as well.
461
00:20:09.690 --> 00:20:12.920
And I'm sure that goes a long way to your point that you mentioned earlier, of your
462
00:20:12.980 --> 00:20:13.380
retention.
463
00:20:14.260 --> 00:20:15.910
100%. We're at
464
00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:18.400
about
465
00:20:19.240 --> 00:20:20.600
16% today,
466
00:20:21.940 --> 00:20:23.700
which is about
467
00:20:24.980 --> 00:20:28.880
15% less than market. So we truly have
468
00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:29.700
an exceptional-
469
00:20:30.130 --> 00:20:30.300
Wow
470
00:20:30.620 --> 00:20:32.370
... amount of retention today.
471
00:20:32.900 --> 00:20:36.260
Why is it so high in the market? Is it just burnout?
472
00:20:36.900 --> 00:20:40.880
Because that's quite a high number in general, the market, the
473
00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:41.340
industry.
474
00:20:41.579 --> 00:20:41.859
Yeah.
475
00:20:42.660 --> 00:20:44.420
The BPO market, I would say,
476
00:20:45.380 --> 00:20:47.980
one, it's a major industry in the Philippines-
477
00:20:48.340 --> 00:20:48.480
Mm-hmm
478
00:20:48.520 --> 00:20:49.840
... for sure, and India.
479
00:20:50.820 --> 00:20:52.780
So there are a lot of players in the market.
480
00:20:53.120 --> 00:20:53.420
So
481
00:20:54.740 --> 00:20:58.620
sometimes things that can shift are work from home versus work
482
00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:02.130
from office. That's a big one. And over the
483
00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:04.460
years, starting with COVID,
484
00:21:05.760 --> 00:21:09.660
one of the things we worked on was getting a certification to
485
00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:12.680
have our... It's called an Epic.
486
00:21:14.620 --> 00:21:18.520
It's a healthcare system in the US, and
487
00:21:18.580 --> 00:21:21.480
Epic has allowed us to have work from home
488
00:21:22.380 --> 00:21:26.320
for certain types of work, where in other countries, like
489
00:21:26.360 --> 00:21:28.290
in India, unfortunately, we're not able to-
490
00:21:28.580 --> 00:21:28.780
Okay
491
00:21:28.790 --> 00:21:32.440
... have work from home with Epic. But things like that can make a difference.
492
00:21:32.520 --> 00:21:32.760
So
493
00:21:35.060 --> 00:21:38.080
when we're competing for that USRN talent, some
494
00:21:38.820 --> 00:21:41.540
other employers may require in office.
495
00:21:43.120 --> 00:21:46.080
We have that work from home option. We have hybrid.
496
00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:49.540
Then it also comes down to just a lot of referral.
497
00:21:49.700 --> 00:21:52.480
Over 30% of our hires are coming from referrals.
498
00:21:52.560 --> 00:21:53.050
Really? Wow.
499
00:21:53.100 --> 00:21:57.060
So it's the word of mouth to say, "Hey, this is a great place to
500
00:21:57.120 --> 00:21:57.340
work."
501
00:21:58.040 --> 00:21:58.160
Yeah.
502
00:21:58.600 --> 00:21:59.420
Compensate. We
503
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:01.700
reevaluate our comp.
504
00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:05.700
We do a lot of, again, kind of fun,
505
00:22:06.340 --> 00:22:10.100
engaging things. We celebrate our nurses. We have Coders Week.
506
00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:12.750
What is that, by the way? You mentioned that a few times.
507
00:22:12.890 --> 00:22:14.460
What does Coders Week mean?
508
00:22:14.780 --> 00:22:18.700
Coders Week is very similar to our
509
00:22:18.760 --> 00:22:22.550
Nurses Week. So it's an international day, well, week, that
510
00:22:22.620 --> 00:22:25.400
is just focused on medical coders.
511
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:26.440
There are so many-
512
00:22:26.780 --> 00:22:27.820
I never even heard the term-
513
00:22:27.890 --> 00:22:27.890
... and most of them are-
514
00:22:27.890 --> 00:22:31.080
... medical coders before, by the way, until this conversation.
515
00:22:31.110 --> 00:22:31.110
Yes.
516
00:22:32.600 --> 00:22:32.610
Okay.
517
00:22:32.610 --> 00:22:32.610
So-
518
00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:33.280
I'm learning a lot-
519
00:22:33.420 --> 00:22:34.050
So all those notes-
520
00:22:34.050 --> 00:22:34.580
... today.
521
00:22:35.180 --> 00:22:35.840
Yes.
522
00:22:35.900 --> 00:22:36.080
Okay.
523
00:22:36.140 --> 00:22:38.490
So all those notes when you're in the office-
524
00:22:38.760 --> 00:22:39.760
Yeah
525
00:22:39.770 --> 00:22:43.440
... that are going behind the scenes, and then have to be kind
526
00:22:43.500 --> 00:22:47.300
of charged back for that insurer
527
00:22:47.360 --> 00:22:50.779
payer to pay, have to be coded correctly.
528
00:22:50.860 --> 00:22:50.880
Oh.
529
00:22:51.060 --> 00:22:54.910
So they're looking at all the coding, inpatient coding, outpatient
530
00:22:55.020 --> 00:22:55.430
coding,
531
00:22:56.500 --> 00:22:58.640
RA coding. There's a lot of different coding.
532
00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:02.700
So these folks are the ones behind the scenes reviewing it all and
533
00:23:02.740 --> 00:23:06.680
making sure that the right code has been aligned
534
00:23:06.740 --> 00:23:07.460
to the right
535
00:23:09.520 --> 00:23:10.380
clinical decision.
536
00:23:10.660 --> 00:23:10.880
Sure.
537
00:23:11.320 --> 00:23:14.920
So it's celebrating those people who that is what they
538
00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:15.440
spend...
539
00:23:16.420 --> 00:23:18.260
They've gotten their certifications in that.
540
00:23:18.810 --> 00:23:22.750
They are very good subject matter experts. So it's celebrating them.
541
00:23:22.900 --> 00:23:26.550
It seems like they're unsung heroes because I'd never even heard of
542
00:23:26.800 --> 00:23:27.120
this.
543
00:23:27.230 --> 00:23:27.770
Unsung heroes.
544
00:23:28.220 --> 00:23:28.470
Right.
545
00:23:28.940 --> 00:23:31.230
And really, again, trying to make sure
546
00:23:32.260 --> 00:23:36.080
from a mission standpoint that that patient's getting the right
547
00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:38.260
care at the right costs.
548
00:23:38.820 --> 00:23:41.900
Yeah. Well, I'm learning a lot on this podcast today.
549
00:23:43.250 --> 00:23:44.300
Excellent.
550
00:23:44.360 --> 00:23:48.180
One of the things that I wanted to ask you, a bit random, but when you talk about
551
00:23:48.300 --> 00:23:51.000
great place to work, what does that actually mean?
552
00:23:52.080 --> 00:23:54.600
Right? When you think about a great place to work, you
553
00:23:56.300 --> 00:23:59.540
said you've done this now across three countries.
554
00:23:59.580 --> 00:23:59.680
Mm-hmm.
555
00:24:00.120 --> 00:24:02.520
What does that look like? Break that down.
556
00:24:02.540 --> 00:24:06.280
Yeah. So specifically for Great Place to Work, it is an engagement
557
00:24:06.320 --> 00:24:10.080
survey, and they are one of many
558
00:24:10.900 --> 00:24:13.280
vendors that provide engagement survey.
559
00:24:13.860 --> 00:24:17.740
So for Great Place to Work specifically, they look at a
560
00:24:17.840 --> 00:24:21.800
couple key questions in their list of, I think it's about
561
00:24:22.040 --> 00:24:24.700
60 questions, that really indicate
562
00:24:25.740 --> 00:24:28.850
this is a great place to work. And so it's actually, I think, one of the questions
563
00:24:28.940 --> 00:24:31.870
is, "I feel that Shearwater Health is a great place to work."
564
00:24:31.900 --> 00:24:33.160
Straight to the point. Yeah.
565
00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:37.000
Straight to the point. And then they're looking at some other questions
566
00:24:37.140 --> 00:24:41.060
around trust, around communication, and looking at
567
00:24:41.120 --> 00:24:44.876
those levels They look at their house, and they're different by
568
00:24:44.916 --> 00:24:48.176
country, but you have to meet a certain threshold of your employee
569
00:24:48.256 --> 00:24:51.656
population that agree to those statements-
570
00:24:51.896 --> 00:24:52.096
Mm-hmm
571
00:24:52.276 --> 00:24:54.156
... to achieve that great place to work.
572
00:24:54.456 --> 00:24:54.635
Okay.
573
00:24:55.056 --> 00:24:58.916
So we could have achieved it in India, but not in the
574
00:24:58.956 --> 00:25:02.376
US or Philippines or any combination thereof.
575
00:25:03.476 --> 00:25:05.416
Fortunately for us, we did
576
00:25:06.596 --> 00:25:10.536
have our population say, "This is a great place to work," and we did meet the
577
00:25:10.556 --> 00:25:12.456
thresholds within the countries.
578
00:25:13.096 --> 00:25:16.976
But for me, Chris, more importantly, it truly is the
579
00:25:16.996 --> 00:25:20.936
data, because that's on a macro level, and on a macro level, I am
580
00:25:20.996 --> 00:25:23.936
very proud that our employees feel this way.
581
00:25:25.116 --> 00:25:28.456
The brilliance of Great Place to Work is when you look at the
582
00:25:28.496 --> 00:25:31.316
microdata, because you can slice it.
583
00:25:31.356 --> 00:25:34.776
It's still anonymous. We can slice it only when there are five or more
584
00:25:34.796 --> 00:25:35.476
employees-
585
00:25:35.616 --> 00:25:35.816
Sure
586
00:25:36.196 --> 00:25:39.585
... that respond to a leader, but then we can truly take a look
587
00:25:39.696 --> 00:25:43.536
at what departments, what teams, what are they
588
00:25:43.576 --> 00:25:47.356
experiencing, what are their specific issues that they
589
00:25:47.396 --> 00:25:50.676
may be having and can take some specific actions
590
00:25:50.776 --> 00:25:53.896
on. So that's what I love about the
591
00:25:53.936 --> 00:25:57.616
certification is truly what's underneath it
592
00:25:58.136 --> 00:26:01.136
and what we can do as HR and operators
593
00:26:01.176 --> 00:26:04.636
together to really look at the micro and the macro.
594
00:26:04.836 --> 00:26:06.896
What do we need to do differently on our teams?
595
00:26:07.366 --> 00:26:10.756
And it's going to be different by team, and you can really see.
596
00:26:11.336 --> 00:26:15.226
It pops out. It pretty clearly comes out what each team is
597
00:26:15.256 --> 00:26:19.136
working on. So we have those listening sessions, and then we
598
00:26:19.176 --> 00:26:23.136
can decide, again, what do we want to do as a team, and what do we want to do on
599
00:26:23.176 --> 00:26:26.536
a macro level to continue making this a great place to work?
600
00:26:26.816 --> 00:26:30.746
Yeah. What were some of the things that stood out to you, or maybe if there's
601
00:26:30.776 --> 00:26:34.476
any surprises, and what are some of the things that you-- Because you can't do
602
00:26:34.536 --> 00:26:37.216
everything, right? So what are some of the things that you took away from that that
603
00:26:37.236 --> 00:26:40.936
you and the team are excited about improving and sort of developing in the
604
00:26:40.976 --> 00:26:42.616
coming 6 to 12 months?
605
00:26:43.296 --> 00:26:46.096
Yeah. So I'll even talk about last year first.
606
00:26:46.676 --> 00:26:50.596
One of the things that came up on a macro level last year
607
00:26:50.736 --> 00:26:51.656
was development-
608
00:26:52.346 --> 00:26:52.376
Mm
609
00:26:52.396 --> 00:26:55.976
... for sure. And I'm thrilled because that leadership
610
00:26:56.056 --> 00:26:59.666
development will never go away, AI or anything else.
611
00:26:59.676 --> 00:27:03.105
That quality of leader is
612
00:27:04.036 --> 00:27:06.896
always going to be the thing that makes a difference.
613
00:27:06.996 --> 00:27:10.476
So, one of the things we did here across
614
00:27:10.536 --> 00:27:14.096
teams was more opportunity for leadership
615
00:27:14.116 --> 00:27:17.476
development. So that's where we used that Nest Week.
616
00:27:19.156 --> 00:27:20.736
So that's in the US,
617
00:27:21.796 --> 00:27:22.876
we focused on
618
00:27:24.476 --> 00:27:28.026
building capability in radical candor, which is providing
619
00:27:28.156 --> 00:27:31.916
feedback. And then the Philippine Nest Week, India, we focused
620
00:27:32.256 --> 00:27:35.896
our development was on Enneagram, and I'm not sure if you've heard that in any of
621
00:27:35.956 --> 00:27:36.786
your-
622
00:27:36.906 --> 00:27:36.906
No
623
00:27:36.906 --> 00:27:40.605
... your podcasts before. Enneagram, it's a
624
00:27:40.636 --> 00:27:42.336
personality inventory.
625
00:27:42.756 --> 00:27:42.916
Okay.
626
00:27:42.996 --> 00:27:46.246
But it's one we've used in the US. It really helps
627
00:27:47.356 --> 00:27:50.276
participants understand who they are as leaders first.
628
00:27:50.716 --> 00:27:50.876
Okay.
629
00:27:50.996 --> 00:27:54.825
And then we can also use it to look at how we're working with
630
00:27:54.876 --> 00:27:58.776
others. It's been really powerful in the US, so
631
00:27:58.796 --> 00:28:02.676
it's something we took to our India-Philippines Nest Week in
632
00:28:02.716 --> 00:28:06.176
February, and then this summer, we're actually rolling it out
633
00:28:06.236 --> 00:28:09.696
to 450 of our team leaders and above
634
00:28:10.436 --> 00:28:13.856
and incorporating that into our leadership
635
00:28:13.916 --> 00:28:17.316
development program. So it's something
636
00:28:17.996 --> 00:28:21.816
that we heard, "Hey, we hear you, and this is a tool that we
637
00:28:21.876 --> 00:28:25.376
see that really can make a difference," and we're rolling it out to
638
00:28:25.636 --> 00:28:27.596
all of our frontline leaders and above.
639
00:28:28.376 --> 00:28:28.516
So-
640
00:28:28.616 --> 00:28:28.886
What does that look like?
641
00:28:28.886 --> 00:28:29.896
... very excited.
642
00:28:30.536 --> 00:28:32.666
What does that look like? Is it workshop, roundtable?
643
00:28:32.856 --> 00:28:34.656
I'm just really curious.
644
00:28:34.876 --> 00:28:38.556
Sure. So Enneagram is something you would take individually.
645
00:28:38.676 --> 00:28:38.836
Okay.
646
00:28:38.846 --> 00:28:39.096
It's a
647
00:28:40.016 --> 00:28:40.356
survey.
648
00:28:40.676 --> 00:28:41.116
Assessment. Okay. Yeah.
649
00:28:41.216 --> 00:28:41.876
Assessment.
650
00:28:43.036 --> 00:28:46.456
So there are nine different types, and then what we
651
00:28:46.516 --> 00:28:50.436
do when we're rolling it out, it depends on where you're at,
652
00:28:50.476 --> 00:28:53.996
but we're having in-person sessions in our
653
00:28:54.076 --> 00:28:56.476
offices in the Philippines and in India.
654
00:28:57.016 --> 00:28:57.656
So we have
655
00:28:58.556 --> 00:29:01.955
five offices total, four in the Philippines, one in India.
656
00:29:02.036 --> 00:29:05.796
So we do what we call HR expos twice a
657
00:29:05.856 --> 00:29:06.196
year.
658
00:29:07.156 --> 00:29:10.256
We do them mid-year, end of year. So in the
659
00:29:10.536 --> 00:29:14.476
in-person expo, we're able to do in-person sessions to go
660
00:29:14.516 --> 00:29:16.916
through all different nine types.
661
00:29:16.956 --> 00:29:20.356
And so everybody's learning about all the different Enneagram types, but then you
662
00:29:20.416 --> 00:29:22.236
also get your report.
663
00:29:22.246 --> 00:29:22.246
Sure.
664
00:29:22.296 --> 00:29:23.916
And it's a pretty extensive report.
665
00:29:24.356 --> 00:29:28.316
And the point is to truly understand who
666
00:29:28.356 --> 00:29:31.656
you are, how you're showing up, how people are
667
00:29:31.696 --> 00:29:34.456
experiencing you, and again, most importantly,
668
00:29:35.516 --> 00:29:39.296
where with awareness can you shift how you're leading,
669
00:29:39.876 --> 00:29:42.826
how you're showing up to be a more effective leader-
670
00:29:43.086 --> 00:29:43.086
Mm
671
00:29:43.086 --> 00:29:44.596
... with your team, with others.
672
00:29:45.436 --> 00:29:49.426
So it's being rolled out in those sessions, but then we also
673
00:29:49.496 --> 00:29:53.296
do virtual sessions because we won't get to all 450 people-
674
00:29:53.366 --> 00:29:53.606
Sure
675
00:29:53.936 --> 00:29:54.876
... in those sessions.
676
00:29:55.116 --> 00:29:55.126
Yeah.
677
00:29:55.136 --> 00:29:55.376
So.
678
00:29:55.696 --> 00:29:56.196
Yeah, I love that.
679
00:29:56.436 --> 00:29:59.656
And then it's going to be ongoing as part of our leadership development training.
680
00:30:00.116 --> 00:30:03.856
So any newly promoted team
681
00:30:03.896 --> 00:30:04.186
leader
682
00:30:05.576 --> 00:30:09.336
goes through our leadership development training, and now Enneagram is integrated
683
00:30:09.376 --> 00:30:10.356
into part of that.
684
00:30:10.436 --> 00:30:14.276
Nice. For you, after you go through that, what does success look like for
685
00:30:14.356 --> 00:30:17.996
you? When you go through these leadership programs, and you mentioned this example,
686
00:30:18.496 --> 00:30:22.476
what outcomes are you and the team looking at as indicators of
687
00:30:22.516 --> 00:30:23.496
that you're moving the needle?
688
00:30:24.616 --> 00:30:28.236
We actually have a great indicator in our dashboard.
689
00:30:28.396 --> 00:30:32.236
So we keep a monthly dashboard of all of our HR
690
00:30:32.316 --> 00:30:35.856
KPIs. One of those KPIs is how many people do go
691
00:30:35.916 --> 00:30:38.696
through our leadership development program.
692
00:30:38.736 --> 00:30:41.846
So we look at it by our verticals-
693
00:30:43.168 --> 00:30:44.868
So that's our partnership with operations.
694
00:30:44.908 --> 00:30:48.677
We want to make sure as many people go through that as
695
00:30:49.348 --> 00:30:51.668
possible, so we track how many people go through that.
696
00:30:51.688 --> 00:30:51.928
Mm-hmm.
697
00:30:52.088 --> 00:30:55.308
In addition to that, though, Chris, we track performance
698
00:30:55.388 --> 00:30:56.808
metrics beyond that.
699
00:30:56.928 --> 00:30:57.248
Of course.
700
00:30:57.348 --> 00:30:58.868
How many coaching,
701
00:30:59.748 --> 00:31:02.708
because we do track coaching for our frontline teams.
702
00:31:02.988 --> 00:31:06.908
Are they getting coaching? What's their ratings of the
703
00:31:06.948 --> 00:31:09.828
coaching? And do our performance metrics
704
00:31:09.888 --> 00:31:13.868
change over time? And another key metric that
705
00:31:13.888 --> 00:31:16.308
we're looking at is 90-day attrition.
706
00:31:16.468 --> 00:31:17.018
Ah, okay.
707
00:31:17.048 --> 00:31:20.808
So if we can improve that coaching in
708
00:31:20.868 --> 00:31:24.708
that first 90 days, can we impact and retain
709
00:31:25.308 --> 00:31:25.648
folks
710
00:31:26.448 --> 00:31:28.688
for the longer term?
711
00:31:29.428 --> 00:31:30.928
And to me,
712
00:31:32.008 --> 00:31:35.908
data is the determinant, and we're seeing results.
713
00:31:36.168 --> 00:31:39.768
Coaching has increased, our performance metrics are increasing.
714
00:31:40.608 --> 00:31:43.548
And again, you can slice it and dice it by teams.
715
00:31:44.038 --> 00:31:47.488
And so our HR business partners are able to work with the teams to see,
716
00:31:48.208 --> 00:31:51.188
hey, if we're not doing that here, what do we need to do differently?
717
00:31:51.308 --> 00:31:55.258
So it is the individual learning and leadership,
718
00:31:55.928 --> 00:31:59.768
really that self-assessment that then shows up in business results
719
00:32:00.068 --> 00:32:00.408
as well.
720
00:32:00.418 --> 00:32:04.148
Yeah. I love the fact that you ended with that because I think too many times,
721
00:32:04.488 --> 00:32:07.968
you started with the development, then you spoke about
722
00:32:08.368 --> 00:32:10.248
completion, which is just a number, right?
723
00:32:10.288 --> 00:32:14.148
You can go through it, but it doesn't mean that, you can't measure the
724
00:32:14.168 --> 00:32:14.358
success.
725
00:32:14.448 --> 00:32:14.548
Right.
726
00:32:15.268 --> 00:32:19.158
You get 100% of people go for it, doesn't mean they're actually executing and are
727
00:32:19.158 --> 00:32:21.568
actually deliberate. They're showing up in how they lead, right?
728
00:32:21.648 --> 00:32:25.608
And then that filtering down to the coaching, then filtering
729
00:32:25.618 --> 00:32:28.618
down to the retention in those 90 days.
730
00:32:28.748 --> 00:32:32.508
So measuring those numbers at a real output, otherwise, we're just measuring
731
00:32:32.548 --> 00:32:36.308
completion and consumption and not competence.
732
00:32:36.448 --> 00:32:36.458
Impact.
733
00:32:36.468 --> 00:32:37.608
Yeah, and competence, right?
734
00:32:38.128 --> 00:32:38.548
Right.
735
00:32:39.028 --> 00:32:42.428
As well. Have you tied that entire loop back to
736
00:32:42.508 --> 00:32:43.808
also how their
737
00:32:45.228 --> 00:32:49.048
performance reviews of these leaders, does that show up there in
738
00:32:49.088 --> 00:32:49.408
some way?
739
00:32:49.468 --> 00:32:52.548
That will. So we're just doing the 450 right now.
740
00:32:52.668 --> 00:32:53.368
Okay, nice.
741
00:32:54.108 --> 00:32:54.428
Yes.
742
00:32:54.608 --> 00:32:54.668
Yeah.
743
00:32:54.688 --> 00:32:58.368
But without any program, we have done that just with our leadership
744
00:32:58.428 --> 00:32:59.428
development program.
745
00:32:59.848 --> 00:32:59.938
Nice.
746
00:32:59.988 --> 00:33:00.468
And yes.
747
00:33:02.948 --> 00:33:04.448
We are taking the right
748
00:33:05.928 --> 00:33:09.328
moves to hold folks more accountable.
749
00:33:09.488 --> 00:33:13.188
I love that. Because that's sometimes one bit I see people and companies missing.
750
00:33:13.568 --> 00:33:13.788
It's like,
751
00:33:14.608 --> 00:33:17.548
what are you measuring for? Because that's going to drive the behavior. Right?
752
00:33:17.588 --> 00:33:17.597
Yeah.
753
00:33:17.648 --> 00:33:20.908
If you're measuring over here with how people are auditing and you're asking them
754
00:33:20.948 --> 00:33:21.828
to go that direction,
755
00:33:23.188 --> 00:33:23.988
then it's not going to work,
756
00:33:25.428 --> 00:33:28.398
as well. And it needs to show up, and it also needs to be connected to those
757
00:33:28.428 --> 00:33:32.108
values, right? The impact, as it were, that you
758
00:33:32.148 --> 00:33:32.448
said-
759
00:33:32.548 --> 00:33:32.578
Yes
760
00:33:32.808 --> 00:33:33.438
... earlier, right?
761
00:33:34.888 --> 00:33:38.088
Especially where you've got the passion for people bit, referred to the P,
762
00:33:38.788 --> 00:33:41.068
act as a leader, win together.
763
00:33:41.198 --> 00:33:41.198
Together.
764
00:33:41.888 --> 00:33:45.718
Yeah. Trust, drive, shared success. That needs to show up, right?
765
00:33:45.988 --> 00:33:46.568
It does.
766
00:33:47.248 --> 00:33:50.768
In how people lead and also how they're recognized and rewarded.
767
00:33:51.488 --> 00:33:53.308
You mentioned, I'm sorry we're going down a rabbit hole.
768
00:33:53.408 --> 00:33:54.058
For everyone listening-
769
00:33:54.228 --> 00:33:54.348
No
770
00:33:54.528 --> 00:33:57.128
... none of this was planned, but I'm just so genuinely intrigued
771
00:33:57.928 --> 00:33:59.588
by the work that you're doing. This is a good thing.
772
00:34:00.788 --> 00:34:04.388
You mentioned that you track the coaching, and that's always been a challenge
773
00:34:04.668 --> 00:34:07.608
for all of our listeners. How do you track that?
774
00:34:07.928 --> 00:34:08.908
That's always difficult.
775
00:34:09.328 --> 00:34:12.928
It is a very production-oriented operation-
776
00:34:13.169 --> 00:34:13.468
Okay
777
00:34:13.968 --> 00:34:17.808
... in the Philippines and India. So meaning, most of our clients,
778
00:34:18.468 --> 00:34:20.188
we do need to report on-
779
00:34:20.268 --> 00:34:20.468
Okay
780
00:34:21.348 --> 00:34:24.528
... production metrics. We also
781
00:34:24.589 --> 00:34:26.798
incentivize on production metrics.
782
00:34:27.468 --> 00:34:30.629
And one of those things for a team leader is, are you having the coaching
783
00:34:30.669 --> 00:34:33.888
conversation? Are you having your weekly touch bases?
784
00:34:33.928 --> 00:34:37.848
And within those, again, to your point, Chris, it's
785
00:34:37.859 --> 00:34:41.379
not a check the box. What's the quality of the content-
786
00:34:41.548 --> 00:34:42.109
Mm-hmm
787
00:34:42.118 --> 00:34:43.828
... in those coaching conversations?
788
00:34:43.868 --> 00:34:47.508
So those are the things that we are tracking with our
789
00:34:47.569 --> 00:34:51.268
quality team, with our operations team, because over
790
00:34:51.328 --> 00:34:53.149
time, that is one of the things we saw.
791
00:34:53.188 --> 00:34:55.428
It was a check the box about two years ago.
792
00:34:55.629 --> 00:34:55.888
Yeah.
793
00:34:55.958 --> 00:34:58.388
And that, it has to be a little bit more than that.
794
00:34:58.688 --> 00:35:02.567
So it's truly, what's the content, what's the quality, what's going into
795
00:35:02.628 --> 00:35:06.608
that? And again, that goes back to how are we training them
796
00:35:06.668 --> 00:35:08.008
to deliver the coaching, too.
797
00:35:08.148 --> 00:35:11.258
I was just about to say that. I'm assuming that's part of their development, right?
798
00:35:11.808 --> 00:35:12.008
Yes.
799
00:35:12.048 --> 00:35:15.968
This is how we have these conversations, even down to here's some questions.
800
00:35:16.448 --> 00:35:16.457
Yes.
801
00:35:16.628 --> 00:35:20.228
This is what it looks like. Right? So not just how are you,
802
00:35:21.368 --> 00:35:21.548
right?
803
00:35:21.608 --> 00:35:21.888
Right.
804
00:35:22.288 --> 00:35:23.058
How are you really?
805
00:35:24.208 --> 00:35:25.638
What are the challenges this week?
806
00:35:25.728 --> 00:35:26.208
Exactly.
807
00:35:26.248 --> 00:35:26.728
Yeah.
808
00:35:26.788 --> 00:35:27.248
Yeah.
809
00:35:27.268 --> 00:35:28.378
What's been getting in your way?
810
00:35:28.688 --> 00:35:28.758
Yeah.
811
00:35:28.828 --> 00:35:29.218
Those types of-
812
00:35:29.828 --> 00:35:33.578
I love, those conversations, if you get that
813
00:35:33.608 --> 00:35:37.568
level right, and that interaction between those leaders and that's where the real
814
00:35:37.608 --> 00:35:39.308
impact happens. Right?
815
00:35:39.888 --> 00:35:40.228
For sure.
816
00:35:40.588 --> 00:35:44.208
That middle management layer is so
817
00:35:44.268 --> 00:35:44.828
important,
818
00:35:46.148 --> 00:35:50.048
as well. So because you could have the best, everything else could be ticked,
819
00:35:50.188 --> 00:35:54.028
but if you're missing that part, you're going to lose people along the
820
00:35:54.068 --> 00:35:54.588
way.
821
00:35:54.608 --> 00:35:54.618
Yeah.
822
00:35:54.628 --> 00:35:58.428
Or they're going to be disengaged, and at some point, it's just going to...
823
00:35:58.528 --> 00:35:59.388
Yeah.
824
00:36:00.288 --> 00:36:02.598
It all goes back to purpose, too, right?
825
00:36:02.648 --> 00:36:03.068
Yeah.
826
00:36:03.108 --> 00:36:04.668
Understanding. Yeah.
827
00:36:04.708 --> 00:36:04.788
Yeah.
828
00:36:04.888 --> 00:36:06.188
What you contribute to every day.
829
00:36:06.568 --> 00:36:07.708
Man, I feel like I could talk to you forever.
830
00:36:07.968 --> 00:36:10.668
What haven't we spoke about that we should have?
831
00:36:11.208 --> 00:36:11.708
Gosh.
832
00:36:14.308 --> 00:36:18.288
We did speak about values. One of the things we haven't spoken about is
833
00:36:18.328 --> 00:36:19.348
branding.
834
00:36:19.388 --> 00:36:19.608
Hmm.
835
00:36:20.388 --> 00:36:22.828
For us, they were very connected. We
836
00:36:23.948 --> 00:36:27.808
re-looked at our branding when we re-looked at our values,
837
00:36:27.888 --> 00:36:31.768
so we actually came out with new values and branding at the same time.
838
00:36:34.088 --> 00:36:38.048
I'd say, it's interesting, I was at a CHRO dinner
839
00:36:38.128 --> 00:36:39.148
last week, and one of
840
00:36:40.348 --> 00:36:44.148
my friends there said, "Gosh, I cannot get the
841
00:36:44.208 --> 00:36:47.348
CEO to agree to redo our values." And I was like, "Well
842
00:36:48.704 --> 00:36:51.704
Tell me, have you redone your branding? Have you redone...
843
00:36:52.064 --> 00:36:56.004
Where are you at? And she said, "The values were old, and
844
00:36:56.084 --> 00:36:58.864
he created them about three years ago."
845
00:36:58.904 --> 00:36:59.644
Well, now you know why.
846
00:36:59.794 --> 00:37:00.654
And I was like, "Hmm."
847
00:37:01.804 --> 00:37:05.624
Okay. So is there an opportunity to go
848
00:37:05.664 --> 00:37:09.394
back and think about how those values fit with your
849
00:37:09.404 --> 00:37:12.344
branding, and how might you
850
00:37:12.404 --> 00:37:16.374
co-create them together with your team if they're
851
00:37:16.374 --> 00:37:20.164
not resonating with the team? Because it sounds like that was really the
852
00:37:20.204 --> 00:37:24.024
impetus for this. So where I'm going with that is that branding and
853
00:37:24.064 --> 00:37:26.824
values can be very connected.
854
00:37:26.844 --> 00:37:27.104
Mm-hmm.
855
00:37:28.084 --> 00:37:31.224
For us, it was really important to do them at the same time.
856
00:37:31.304 --> 00:37:34.904
We realized our values were pretty old.
857
00:37:36.824 --> 00:37:37.594
And they just weren't
858
00:37:38.824 --> 00:37:41.284
resonating as we were thinking about communications.
859
00:37:41.344 --> 00:37:45.314
We were like, "Well, I guess that one sort of fits, but that doesn't really
860
00:37:45.364 --> 00:37:47.684
seem like who we are today." So that was the impetus.
861
00:37:47.754 --> 00:37:51.564
Like, "Hey, we need to do this." And then similarly, when we
862
00:37:51.604 --> 00:37:55.504
looked at our brand, we noticed that it
863
00:37:55.564 --> 00:37:58.704
was more about a logo and not necessarily about the
864
00:37:59.544 --> 00:38:02.964
full picture of meaning of who we are as a company,
865
00:38:03.664 --> 00:38:07.584
and really trying to tie all of the visuals
866
00:38:07.684 --> 00:38:11.564
to who we are and who we want to be. So
867
00:38:11.624 --> 00:38:15.204
the brand refresh was also something that I would say
868
00:38:15.264 --> 00:38:19.004
galvanized the teams. Again, it's something that can really
869
00:38:19.064 --> 00:38:20.304
tie everybody together
870
00:38:21.124 --> 00:38:24.884
and show who you are in such a different
871
00:38:24.924 --> 00:38:25.164
way.
872
00:38:25.644 --> 00:38:25.824
Yeah.
873
00:38:26.004 --> 00:38:27.204
So that's just one thing.
874
00:38:27.484 --> 00:38:31.424
Yeah, I think to your conversation with your peer, if
875
00:38:31.484 --> 00:38:34.464
it's coming from the business, then it can't be a bad idea.
876
00:38:34.664 --> 00:38:34.674
No.
877
00:38:35.684 --> 00:38:36.004
If
878
00:38:36.924 --> 00:38:40.624
it's HR coming saying, "This is what we think," you're going to get pushback.
879
00:38:40.824 --> 00:38:43.864
Whereas if it's like, "Hey, we've done a survey-
880
00:38:44.544 --> 00:38:44.723
Right
881
00:38:44.744 --> 00:38:48.544
... and this is what The Philippines are saying, the US is saying,
882
00:38:48.604 --> 00:38:51.704
and here's the data," to your point-
883
00:38:51.764 --> 00:38:51.774
Yes
884
00:38:51.774 --> 00:38:52.764
... then it's pretty difficult
885
00:38:54.304 --> 00:38:54.544
to
886
00:38:56.383 --> 00:38:59.163
keep standing on that and
887
00:39:00.264 --> 00:39:02.944
pushing back against that. So I think you did-
888
00:39:02.964 --> 00:39:03.013
Yes
889
00:39:03.084 --> 00:39:04.673
... you did a great job of doing that.
890
00:39:04.824 --> 00:39:08.804
You kind of led with the data and said, "Look, this is..." And also, it's really
891
00:39:09.064 --> 00:39:11.964
not easy. It's not difficult to get buy-in when people feel like they're part of
892
00:39:12.004 --> 00:39:12.644
the process.
893
00:39:14.104 --> 00:39:14.344
Yes.
894
00:39:14.444 --> 00:39:15.084
Like, who's going to push back?
895
00:39:15.124 --> 00:39:18.864
That's true. I will say
896
00:39:19.904 --> 00:39:23.424
even changing branding when it's exciting still brings change,
897
00:39:23.904 --> 00:39:24.513
still brings resistance.
898
00:39:24.513 --> 00:39:26.084
Yeah, no one likes change. Yeah.
899
00:39:26.144 --> 00:39:26.784
Yeah.
900
00:39:26.864 --> 00:39:26.964
Yeah.
901
00:39:27.084 --> 00:39:30.224
And once you can get past it,
902
00:39:30.744 --> 00:39:31.524
everyone loved it.
903
00:39:32.064 --> 00:39:32.164
Yeah.
904
00:39:32.244 --> 00:39:33.144
Because they were a part of it.
905
00:39:33.804 --> 00:39:36.664
But let's be honest, you have to
906
00:39:36.704 --> 00:39:40.484
deliver. Because how many times have we sat-
907
00:39:40.524 --> 00:39:40.534
Yes
908
00:39:40.534 --> 00:39:44.384
... we've seen with companies or sent out a survey, everyone gives
909
00:39:44.404 --> 00:39:46.584
their feedback, nothing happens.
910
00:39:47.224 --> 00:39:47.694
And even worse-
911
00:39:47.694 --> 00:39:48.864
Don't serve your... Yeah
912
00:39:49.044 --> 00:39:51.604
... yeah. Even worse, they communicate back
913
00:39:52.744 --> 00:39:55.404
what the findings were, and then nothing happens.
914
00:39:56.484 --> 00:39:58.564
Right? So I think it's-
915
00:39:58.614 --> 00:39:58.614
Yes
916
00:39:58.804 --> 00:40:02.744
... I think we've realized this now more than now than ever in terms of the
917
00:40:02.824 --> 00:40:06.504
power of HR, in terms of the comms and the marketing
918
00:40:06.944 --> 00:40:10.804
all being in sync because people pay
919
00:40:10.814 --> 00:40:14.724
attention. If I'm sharing, and I'm not hearing feedback, I would
920
00:40:14.784 --> 00:40:17.124
rather you say, "This is what we can't do.
921
00:40:18.134 --> 00:40:20.144
We hear you. This is what we are going to do.
922
00:40:20.204 --> 00:40:21.394
But just as equally,
923
00:40:22.384 --> 00:40:24.204
these are the things that we can't do, but we hear you."
924
00:40:25.184 --> 00:40:25.524
Yes.
925
00:40:26.064 --> 00:40:29.524
As opposed to trying to avoid any uncomfortable
926
00:40:29.584 --> 00:40:32.224
conversations or things because people appreciate that.
927
00:40:32.264 --> 00:40:32.304
Yeah.
928
00:40:32.684 --> 00:40:33.704
They're like, "Okay.
929
00:40:34.704 --> 00:40:35.244
You heard me,"
930
00:40:36.154 --> 00:40:36.154
right?
931
00:40:36.554 --> 00:40:36.554
Right. Yes.
932
00:40:36.564 --> 00:40:40.453
"And even though you can't do those things, at least I know my voice matters," and
933
00:40:40.504 --> 00:40:41.624
I think that is huge.
934
00:40:42.104 --> 00:40:42.594
You mentioned
935
00:40:44.064 --> 00:40:46.984
our LinkedIn and some other sites earlier.
936
00:40:47.484 --> 00:40:51.354
I just want to call out internal and external communications are
937
00:40:51.424 --> 00:40:53.584
just to me one of the best enablers-
938
00:40:53.824 --> 00:40:54.304
Yeah
939
00:40:54.314 --> 00:40:55.844
... for HR.
940
00:40:57.004 --> 00:40:58.984
They help us bring these stories to life.
941
00:40:59.024 --> 00:41:02.024
They help us make meaning
942
00:41:02.124 --> 00:41:05.713
from surveys. They help us go back and do
943
00:41:05.744 --> 00:41:06.864
exactly that. I would
944
00:41:07.724 --> 00:41:11.224
definitely suggest if there's no appetite for change, don't survey.
945
00:41:11.944 --> 00:41:12.914
Yeah, 100%.
946
00:41:12.924 --> 00:41:14.284
You got to have the appetite for change.
947
00:41:14.744 --> 00:41:17.824
To your branding piece, one of the things that you and the team did a good job
948
00:41:17.864 --> 00:41:21.684
about is people buy people. They
949
00:41:21.704 --> 00:41:23.664
don't follow brands, they follow people.
950
00:41:23.964 --> 00:41:27.864
And your brand and your product literally,
951
00:41:27.904 --> 00:41:30.004
in this case, are people,
952
00:41:30.944 --> 00:41:31.084
right?
953
00:41:31.564 --> 00:41:31.574
Yeah.
954
00:41:31.624 --> 00:41:35.484
So if you don't have a brand that authentically communicates that and that
955
00:41:35.684 --> 00:41:39.424
shows up on your social media, and you're sharing those
956
00:41:39.524 --> 00:41:43.024
stories of your people and the way you do in a
957
00:41:43.104 --> 00:41:46.843
very authentic way, then
958
00:41:47.024 --> 00:41:49.284
people can feel that now. You can't get away with that anymore.
959
00:41:50.484 --> 00:41:50.494
Right.
960
00:41:50.504 --> 00:41:54.164
People are smart. There's no whole glass door days
961
00:41:55.304 --> 00:41:58.464
and things like that. You can't hide behind that.
962
00:41:58.564 --> 00:42:02.044
If you're presenting one thing on social media
963
00:42:02.484 --> 00:42:04.264
and not living up to that internally,
964
00:42:05.424 --> 00:42:06.664
people are going to leave just as quick
965
00:42:07.504 --> 00:42:08.064
as they come in.
966
00:42:08.284 --> 00:42:11.814
I agree. And we have so many incredible nurses and
967
00:42:11.964 --> 00:42:12.824
stories that
968
00:42:13.904 --> 00:42:17.564
I feel like it's good fortune for us that we have so
969
00:42:18.044 --> 00:42:19.084
many stories to share.
970
00:42:19.324 --> 00:42:20.624
Yeah. Listen, before I let you go,
971
00:42:21.644 --> 00:42:23.644
I just want to say congratulations to you and the team so far.
972
00:42:24.264 --> 00:42:24.644
Thank you.
973
00:42:24.744 --> 00:42:26.144
It takes
974
00:42:27.424 --> 00:42:31.144
a lot whole team and effort for everyone to be on the journey. It is a journey.
975
00:42:31.244 --> 00:42:32.014
There's no end to this.
976
00:42:32.424 --> 00:42:32.664
Yeah.
977
00:42:32.704 --> 00:42:35.304
This continues to evolve. And
978
00:42:36.804 --> 00:42:40.234
what advice would you give to other HR leaders maybe listening that are on their
979
00:42:40.344 --> 00:42:43.724
journey to where you are now? Looking back, maybe anything you would've done
980
00:42:43.744 --> 00:42:46.444
differently or just some advice to them before we say goodbye?
981
00:42:46.524 --> 00:42:50.364
I would say to tie it into something you said at the beginning,
982
00:42:50.424 --> 00:42:52.564
Chris, around frontline employees.
983
00:42:53.684 --> 00:42:56.874
We've talked a lot about data. We've talked about
984
00:42:56.944 --> 00:43:00.864
values and other things in our conversation today,
985
00:43:00.904 --> 00:43:04.824
which has been great. For me, again, with kind of that
986
00:43:04.844 --> 00:43:05.724
frontline lens,
987
00:43:06.824 --> 00:43:08.824
always remember the people.
988
00:43:09.764 --> 00:43:12.884
There's always a person behind a data point.
989
00:43:13.544 --> 00:43:13.824
There's
990
00:43:14.724 --> 00:43:16.144
a human behind a story.
991
00:43:17.464 --> 00:43:20.924
And so for me, what's been helpful
992
00:43:21.024 --> 00:43:24.694
over all of my time is remembering it's
993
00:43:24.764 --> 00:43:28.544
not a percentage, it's a person. How do you get to
994
00:43:29.204 --> 00:43:32.904
building those percentages up or making better
995
00:43:33.364 --> 00:43:36.544
results? It's going to be through the people.
996
00:43:36.584 --> 00:43:40.064
It's going to be through purpose and intent. So how do you reach them?
997
00:43:40.364 --> 00:43:41.104
How do you get them?
998
00:43:42.464 --> 00:43:42.744
It's
999
00:43:44.064 --> 00:43:46.104
bigger than the data. It's the person behind the data.
1000
00:43:46.684 --> 00:43:49.024
Love that. Well, listen, Jen, I appreciate you coming on the show.
1001
00:43:49.384 --> 00:43:52.584
It's been a pleasure. Had so much fun, and I wish you all the best until next
1002
00:43:52.644 --> 00:43:53.723
week.
1003
00:43:53.764 --> 00:43:55.724
Thank you so much. It's been great to be here.
Jennifer M. Bales, Chief Human Resources Officer at Shearwater Health.