How to Transform HR Data into Board-Level ROI
In this episode of the HR Leaders Podcast, we sit down with Sarnjit Kaur, Chief People Officer International at Cox Automotive Inc., to explore how HR leaders can transform data into board-level ROI.
Sarnjit shares how HR teams can elevate people analytics from operational metrics to strategic insights, and how combining empathy with business acumen can unlock real impact.
🎓 In this episode, Sarnjit discusses:
Why HR must understand the business first
Why empathy is essential for leadership today
How people analytics drives operational change
How to scale leadership development with impact
The role of people managers in employee experience
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Sarnjit Kaur 0:00
Before I actually came into HR, I was in contact centers, and it teaches you a lot being in a customer service role, doing the front facing roles. I always think it's probably the best background that I've had to set me up for success in HR. As I've transitioned to HR, one of the insights I would probably take is it's alright to fail. It's all right to go back sidewards, or even taking a step back. Your career doesn't have to be so linear. And that's probably one of the best things that's happened to me in terms of I've really been aware of going and trying different projects, going in and trying a different business area. It gave me a totally different facet into HR. My learning has been don't become institutionalized in one aspect, you know, there's always opportunities to grow, isn't there?
Chris Rainey 1:03
Hey, Saudia, how are you doing? I'm really good. Thank you, Chris. I can't believe
we're here face to face. I know
Sarnjit Kaur 1:08
I said I committed to it, and I'm here. You did,
Chris Rainey 1:11
yeah, you did say that, but I know today you was also at a conference, right? Yeah. How'd it go?
Sarnjit Kaur 1:16
It was really good. I was at the people analytics world 25 conference. So it was really, really good experience,
Chris Rainey 1:22
nice. So for you, how did it feel being immersed within people analytics universe? It
Sarnjit Kaur 1:27
was really fascinating to hear some of the similar challenges we have. I also was actually doing a panel discussion with David Green, and it was really great to share some like actionable examples of what me and my team are doing at Cox auto, yeah, so that it was quite interesting was the theme of the panel. The theme of the panel was, how do you make how do you integrate analytics and insights into fixing real business issues, be it people, be it customer, nice, be it performance. So I think I just took the experience of being able to share some of the insights and some of our journey that Cox Auto is on, really, yeah,
Chris Rainey 2:10
well, now we've teed that up, and might as well jump into that. Like, what were some of the examples that came up?
Sarnjit Kaur 2:16
Some of the examples that I shared is, I said, Look, all HR professionals have got basic KPIs metrics, efficient retention. But I think one of the things I was really sharing was like, from a talent skills perspective, how do you link that data to your business strategy, and where are the gaps? You know, just having practical ways of how you can really sort of share and be a real influencer, particularly around the board table with data. Because I do think sometimes HR leaders can sometimes maybe either shy away from some of
Chris Rainey 2:56
the you don't strike me as a type of shy person.
Sarnjit Kaur 3:00
Yeah, I'm not the shy person, but it comes with confidence. It does come with confidence and the data. And I think the data is one insights, yeah, it's the insights, yeah.
Chris Rainey 3:10
How can we break that a little bit more then what's a practical example of how you've done that? So
Sarnjit Kaur 3:15
a practical example could be, you all have business priorities, yeah? So one of our business priorities and business initiatives is continuous improvement. So continuous improvement means a number of things to a number of people. Yeah, let's say, if you're looking at cost efficiency, you know some of the some of the examples I actually shared yesterday were how we are utilizing our apprenticeship Levy. We've never utilized that in an efficient way over the years, but data understanding how we can leverage the actual levy that's all come through insight from data. Other examples are recruitment data, you know, looking at how many people we shortlist, how many people get through our funnel, we've looked at that data to streamline some of our processes, to make us more efficient. And again, had we not formed these basic data points, we wouldn't have got the decisions changed the way we're working. Do you have a head of people
Chris Rainey 4:14
analytics, or is that full of the URL? Do I have what sort of head of people analytics?
Sarnjit Kaur 4:19
I have a people analytics manager? Yep. But again, I think one of the things that I did talk about quite a lot is sometimes the journey with HR analytics is actually getting your own house in order. And by that I mean joining up all of the parts of the employee life cycles, such as engagement, data, attrition, your core KPIs, but linking all of the elements within your HR division first, before you go and share it with the business. Yeah, that's the journey I were on with it. How long
Chris Rainey 4:48
you been on that journey now, I would probably say 1212,
Sarnjit Kaur 4:51
to 18 months in terms of like, developing basic dashboards, developing basic KPIs. Now it's. More about, okay, so what? Yeah, what's the insight? What's it telling us, and how does that data actually influence and support and help the business with the problems they try to solve?
Chris Rainey 5:12
Was there a process to you in terms of upskilling your own HR team? Because that's quite a big shift in the way that they think and operate right now, being data driven. HR, yeah, leaders, yeah.
Sarnjit Kaur 5:23
I genuinely think that process is still ongoing. Because I think one of the things I took away, particularly from the conferences, it's not just your HR teams, it's also your people managers. So when you're sharing basic, core insights, it's like, okay, our managers actually using that day to day understanding? Yeah, do they understand it? So exactly, what are the practical things I've taken away from conferences that needs to really engage people managers. So, you know, I would probably say we're definitely on a journey with it, but it's really made me open my eyes through networking with other people at the conference, yeah, how you can really influence and shape positive, actionable outcomes. Yeah,
Chris Rainey 6:04
you're doing this yourself at events in terms of like, upskilling, reskilling. You've got a great network, because I know from our conversations, how will you then translating that to upskilling your own HR team? Yeah,
Sarnjit Kaur 6:15
so I think my, my stance with my own HR team is, I obviously coaching is my, you know, I genuinely enjoy coaching, and it's almost, you know, sharing examples with them, going out and networking on conferences like this, you know, I would always encourage that with my team. So I think it's always sharing what does good look like, and what's that one thing or two things that we can change? Yeah, and learn from each of the insights that we get from that business, from our people you know, from external sort of events and networking. So I think you're always on a journey with upskilling your team. Yeah, it's never
Chris Rainey 6:49
ending. It's never ending. You're working in HR, when I started 20 years ago. Yeah, it's almost unrecognizable. Yeah, right, the function, yeah, we still got a bit of a stigma attached, I think like to, if you ask sort of the average employee, they still kind of see HR as the old opera, the operating models. I feel like there needs to be a bit of a work done there. But I feel like we come a long way, though.
Sarnjit Kaur 7:12
Yeah, I think we've come a long way since COVID. COVID definitely flipped us. So if you think about COVID, yeah, really poor HR at the forefront, yeah, you were making all of these big decisions, furlough, people safety, psychological safety as well. Chris, I do think that's one area where I think, you know, I call it our listening strategy. And interestingly, we've just shared the results of our q1 pulse survey, and I was sharing, you know, with our sort of HR team, but that surveys are one element of it. You know how we turn up every day, how we ask our employees how they feel, whether it's exit interviews, day interviews, whether it's the one on one, coaching and a check in with your people, it's all so important to do. And I think you know, it's really it's creating that cultural environment where people and team members feel free to share, yeah, important to them. But
Chris Rainey 8:06
practically, how do you do that? Because the people talk I interviewed Amy Edmondson recently, right on. Obviously she came up with the term psychological safety, yeah, and there's one thing talking about it. But practically, how does that show up? Yeah, in the workplace,
Sarnjit Kaur 8:21
yeah. And it, it's a brilliant question, because I always think about this, and I always think, right, even when I was an employee, how you treated, you know, that inclusion aspect, it shows up in, I think, the culture and what culture leaders create. And it absolutely starts from the top, yeah, you know, it's role modeling, it's storytelling, it's creating that environment where whether you're a blue collar worker or a white collar worker, you feel as if you're in a safe and trusted environment. And I can honestly say there's probably examples where we don't always get it right, but we are really intrigued, and I think we're really committed to creating that right environment. And it does start with the top so when we talk as a board, for example, you know, we will always talk about, I will always translate my people strategy with one clear directive first, which is a culture that cares. So any big strategic initiatives will always first through the lens of through so if I were sharing my strategy with you know, a frontline worker, the three buckets that I would always talk about really are a culture that cares. You know, where we recognize their achievements and where we are committed to their progression and development, because that's what people want. Yeah, in the workplace. Just
Chris Rainey 9:46
going back to what you just said a second ago, what was some of the insights that you got back from that last listening survey? What are some of the things that you then shared that were like, oh, maybe like a surprise or Great?
Sarnjit Kaur 9:56
Well, first and foremost, it was definitely lots of great feedback. Like, in terms of the inclusion agenda, right? So by that, I mean like, how people are treated fairly, how they're respected in the workplace, how they feel as if there is opportunities, yeah, and I think there's opportunities, as always, in terms of understanding, okay, when our people do leave, yeah, or where there's opportunities to retain more in maybe some some roles which are a little bit more either complicated. So I think it gave us a number of nuggets, but I think generally it showed us the response rate was really great, which, again, shows engagement. Yeah, we had something like over 250 verbatim comments. We had a response rate of 60% so the fact that people are choosing to share how they actually feel and complete the survey, I always think, is a good measure of Yeah, engagement.
Chris Rainey 10:53
There's also a good measure that you're actually doing something about it, because, like most companies do these surveys, and then they don't even communicate anything back. Yeah, that's probably the worst thing you could do. Yeah. It's like, great. I filled this in. I've heard nothing. Yeah, so how quickly do you and the team get back to people? Yeah? What does that look like? So
Sarnjit Kaur 11:13
again, that was, I think it's very timely. You've got to your cascade plans got to be very timely, and it always starts with me, first, cascading high level results down to the board, then it's all it's that ownership and accountability. So we make our action plan and our cascade plan really simple, really clear. It's quite timely. It really shows who's accountable for what and all of the steps that we take. And I think it's just continually improving it from the previous one. Yeah. So where we have had feedback of a bit and comments to say, well, it wasn't quick enough. What can we do to absolutely speed that up? I think the other thing that's really important is it's then senior leaders taking accountability to then say, well, okay, this is a particular dimension that I want to drill down a little bit more in. Or this is an area where, or this particular question, it could be growth, it could be development, it could be career opportunities. The data will say something. I think the test is in well, okay, so what and how do we delve a bit deeper, yeah, which I think is the accountability of, yeah, all of our people managers. But
Chris Rainey 12:19
people managers are the ones that are really having the most impact on the business. They're the ones interacting with your employees day to day, right? So if they're not prepared, yeah, you know you're going to be in a bit of trouble. Yeah?
Sarnjit Kaur 12:30
What do they always say? What six or seven people leave because of the line manager? Yeah?
Chris Rainey 12:35
Yeah. It's like, yeah. And unfortunately, it hasn't changed that much over the years, kind of it's a, it's a data point that keeps reappearing, Yeah, unfortunately, and
Sarnjit Kaur 12:43
that is one area, Chris, I would definitely say, if I think one of the biggest things on my people strategy at the moment to help on some of these sort of business and engagement sort of opportunities is leadership development, Yeah, so this is probably the first time where we've really taken a strategic and an operational, practical approach to have we invested in our leaders. What does that look like? What could it look like, and what should it look like?
Chris Rainey 13:16
Yeah, have you kind of re looked at what are the leadership competencies, sort of the power skills as it were now that they need. Because obviously what it meant to be a leader, even five years ago has fundamentally changed. We didn't think about, you know, things like leading remote teams, or things like leading with empathy, or having well being conversations, like a lot of things that when I was a manager, just wasn't a thing. You know, have you taken that opportunity to reassess that?
Sarnjit Kaur 13:41
Most definitely, I think we've got a lot of feedback. Ai, from the surveys. We get a lot of feedback just generally in terms of, how do we constantly, like we said, increase that line manager capability with everything that goes on internally in the organization and externally? Yeah, you know, the world around us, as you know, is changing at a rate of knots. You know a line manager. I always think, if I go back to my line manager days, you know, you're a counselor, you're you're responsible for productivity, you're responsible for performance, well being. So I think it's constantly iterative, yeah, but I think one of the things I'm really looking to do is, right, okay, whether you're a first line manager, whether you've been in a leader role for 20 years, whether you're a senior leader and you're managing the business as well. What does that look like in terms of development and support for you? Yeah, and we've actually absolutely utilized the apprenticeship levy a lot, because a lot of your programs, you can actually get accredited through the levy, really, where you absolutely get support, where you know, you work with external partners. So one of the things, one of my ambitions, is I would like to put all of our 300 leaders through what I'm calling manager essentials. So what? Not just the processy things, but some of the soft skills that you just touched, they're
Chris Rainey 14:57
most important. Yeah, yeah. How? Are you planning on doing that at scale? Because that's one of the challenges. And also you've got some people in office based you've got front line, right? People that are on the shop floor, yeah? How are you thinking about how you do that at scale? That's always been a challenge. Yeah,
Sarnjit Kaur 15:11
it has always been a challenge. But as I said, the the apprenticeship Levy and how we can absolutely work, I would say, more creatively, has opened the doors up for that. So if I give you an example, 2024 we piloted a program, and we took the first cohort, I would probably say, of about 30 managers. Our plans now are for 2526 27 we will roll that out to all our leaders across the business. Wow. Now that you know, because it's levy funded and it is, there's an accreditation attached to it, that's only one aspect of our leadership strategy. There might be leaders who don't want to absolutely get that accreditation. Yeah, so I think you've got to balance it with, what does it look like with other avenues to constantly upskill, engage and coach your leaders. Yeah, as you said to a team member, your line manager is so influential. They are influencing your engagement, your productivity, your performance. And I always think it's an area where we probably have under invested in the past. And it's not a one fix overnight, it's you've got to have. I
Chris Rainey 16:21
don't mean there's a single company in the world that can say they have that. I think every company would say that strategy, yeah. What does that look like in practical terms, that like in person? Training? Is it virtual? Yeah? Online like,
Sarnjit Kaur 16:32
yeah. So currently, we are doing a blended approach. We know people want face to face. They want some interaction. Obviously, we're a diverse business, so it's really great to get them in rooms where they're absolutely networking and collaborate, collaborating across the group, as we sort of go into some of the senior leader development programs, there is a bit more face to face, but equally more virtual as well. And I think that does trigger this whole conversation about growth mindset, you know, having blended ways of learning and doing that real self assessment. So we do a number of tools, like 360, HDI, almost like pre pre learning, which we would expect leaders at a certain level to own as well? Yeah,
Chris Rainey 17:20
there's people should own, or especially our leaders should own their own learning. Yeah, we can help, support, facilitate, but you can't make people I always say like one to learn. What would you say it's been like on your career journey to where you are now? Yeah, what would say it's like the biggest mistake that you made to help prepare you for the role you're in now,
Sarnjit Kaur 17:43
biggest mistake, yeah, or
Chris Rainey 17:45
necessarily say learning moment, yeah,
Sarnjit Kaur 17:48
I think learning moment is, you know, my career, if I just give you a bit of a background into my career, that might help. First, I think I've done operational roles. So before I actually came into HR, I was in contact centers, first team leader all I think I was the age of 23 and it teaches you a lot. It really, you know, being in a customer service role, doing the front line, front facing roles, I get, I always think it's probably the best background that I've had to set me up for success in HR. I think as I've transitioned to HR, obviously, I've transitioned through the various roles. And one of the things, one of the insights I would probably take is, it's all right to fail. You know, it's okay. There's jobs that I've been for and posts that I've been for. I'll give you an example, maybe my first senior HR, BP role. You know, I done five, six years in the contact centers. I did three or four years as a HR BP. Thought I was ready for the next level up, but when I reflect back, I just wasn't ready yet. And it's okay, you know, sometimes I always think the best advice I give to my team is it's all right to do the hard jobs, it's all right to go back sidewards or go even taking a step back, because it's not it does your your career doesn't have to be so linear. Yeah, and that's probably one of the best feedback, or one of the best things that's happened to me in terms of I've really been aware of going and trying different projects, going in and trying a different business area. Suntan, there was 20,000 people. So I was really like, how was you there for? I was there for literally over 20 years. Wow, yeah, over there 20 years. And I sort of made it my objective every two years to go and work in a different division. It was intentional about that. Yeah, I was really intentional about and even if it wasn't a promotion, it was like Sanjay. I'll give you an example. So I've always done contact centers. I did manufacturing, which was back office. I then intentionally went and did global markets, which was actually here in London. What does that mean, by the way, sorry, so global markets was basically. Like, you know, after the 2008 financial crisis, it was always the back office bit of how the markets respond, but the operational teams that support the investment banking that was a different HR priority. It was a different HR reward plan. It was different HR priorities. It gave me a totally different facet into HR, yeah. So I think coming back to your point, you know, my learning has been, don't become institutionalized in one aspect. You know, there's always opportunities to grow, isn't there?
Chris Rainey 20:30
Yeah, did you? Did you Was there ever a point that you knew you already? Or did you think you never know that you're ready to be sitting to jump into the seat of CBO, you kind of just gotta jump in the deep end. Or did you feel like you knew that you were ready at that point?
Sarnjit Kaur 20:44
I don't think I knew I was ready, but I think in the back of my mind I was always thinking, right? I've got a I love learning. I have got a very growth mindset. So when I stepped in from Santander to automotive, you know, one of the first things that was really important to me was understanding the automotive industry, you know, it was really understanding all of the roles, getting right in with the business. And I think that's when I've sort of really, you start consolidating your experience, basically. And I felt for me, yeah, I started to link it all together in terms of, like, business acumen, strategic thinking, how culture, you know, the fine, the financial aspects of like, so
Chris Rainey 21:28
all those things you did over years, all of a sudden, those pieces of the puzzle, as it were, yeah, came together. Yeah, at the point where, yeah, that's pretty cool, yeah, they came
Sarnjit Kaur 21:36
together. And I think sometimes I do genuinely think it's luck. It's being in the right place. You make your own luck. It's timing, yeah? But when the rules came up, yeah, I just felt as if I was probably, you know, equipped to do the roles, but you're still learning. You know, you're not saying yeah, you don't. You're never ending, yeah? And even now, even now, I would say, you know, you're not the fully fledged finished article. Because, you know, even going to this conference today, I've talked to a number of conferences, I'll connect with people, and I think, all right, we're not doing that, or that's something we could either dial up on or dial down on. You're always learning AI,
Chris Rainey 22:13
yeah, and there's always like, now, it's like, okay, now I've got to understand AI, is this a never ending, yeah, never ending amount. We spoke off camera before we started around. When you go to the conferences, and we both have noticed this, there is a lack of diversity represented, right? Whether it's the speakers, whether it's the attendees, whether it's actually the CHROs themselves in their role. Could you speak to that as well? Because something me and you spoke about personally that you don't really hear often people talking about,
Sarnjit Kaur 22:46
I can definitely speak to it clearly from a personal lens on the professional lens. You know, even if I go back to my career in HR, like I said, when I've transitioned from operations to HR, 25 years ago, even as a HR BP, I think I was probably, you know, I felt as if I can remember walking into a room thinking, right there, there was nobody that looked like me. So I think there's definitely opportunities for inclusion. I think the lens of just representation, it is representation does matter, you know. And if I think about some of some of the conferences that I've been to, you know, sometimes there is, there's definitely that opportunity whereby, you know, customers, I always say this to our business, our customers come in all different shapes or sizes, and you have to reflect clearly, the communities that AI you operate in, but also your customers. So I think, you know, like a lot of organizations, we're on a journey with it. But I think it's, it's important to, if you're going to look in the same place for talent, yeah, you're going to get the same talent, yeah. How can you be creative in in opening those those opportunities?
Chris Rainey 23:57
Have you? Have you? Is this been a challenge? Is this come with challenges on your journey that you've faced?
Sarnjit Kaur 24:06
I think, you know, there's been a couple of occasions where I think they've had a couple of challenges, but I am what I do when I've done my strengths finder the Gallup Strengths Finder, my top strength is positivity. And I always think, well, I can't you assume positive intent. Yeah, I absolutely. I love that. I assume positive intent, because that could be
Chris Rainey 24:26
amazing trait, by the way, for anyone listening, because you
Sarnjit Kaur 24:29
are you always, I always think, well, what's your circle of influence and what's your circle of control? And I say this to my two boys at home as well. You know, if they've shared examples of where they've had a situation, I always, you know, my response to them is always, well, what can you control? Control the control board you can influence. Yeah. So when I have had a couple of situations like that, either through professional or personal experiences, I'm quite positive in the sense that, right? Well, I can control the narrative. And what can I learn from the situation? Yeah. And I think that, you know, really brings me on to like, you know, having that mindset to think positive intent, whether it's people, whether it's process, whether it's customer, it does, it does create a different perspective on things. Yeah,
Chris Rainey 25:15
everyone comes to the table with their own I think I like the terminology is of the backpack of beliefs. Yeah, right, so you have to keep that in mind as well. Like, I've had employees in the past, and you know my my wife's a black female leader, and has experienced her own things in the corporate world that she tells me the stories of at home and stuff and a lot of time is actually people just don't understand ignorance. I was actually about to say that way,
Sarnjit Kaur 25:44
it's ignorance. And what I would always say again, and I say this to my boys, it's, it's how you choose to react to it. It's like any business situation, whether it's, yeah, you know, it's how we choose to react to any situation you
Chris Rainey 25:56
because you maintain control, like, you know, like, because if you, like, let people make you feel a certain way, or, you know, like, it's empowering to lead with that control of controllables. Yeah, I know who I am. I know what I'm worth, etc, yeah, and not letting, not giving up that power, if that makes sense, yeah. And
Sarnjit Kaur 26:18
it's the same around, like, the board table. You know, as my careers progress, you're in situations, meetings, in the workplace, yeah, you know, you don't always agree on stuff which is good from a business perspective, where you're bringing in different insights, different challenges, but it's how you project yourself, and it's how you Project your views, and I always think with experience, you refine that ability to influence, yeah, and again, just, you know, linking it back to some of the data, the insights, the experience, like you said,
Chris Rainey 26:50
you understand the business, right? Yeah, you know, you first thing you said when I was interesting, one of the things when I mentioned about going into the CPO role, you didn't mention anything about HR, yeah, the first thing you mentioned was the business, yeah, and that says everything, yeah, right. So you didn't come in for, okay, this is my experiences. HR, you said, No, actually, I need to understand your automotive industry. Yeah, it works. How to make money, building relationships, then I can, yeah, add value and start to influence, right? But if you lead with that first, the other way around, you're gonna lose. And that I
Sarnjit Kaur 27:19
knew when you asked me the question about what, how you know, how do you upskill the team? Yeah, you know. And I genuinely believe that as a HR leader who wants to make a difference, you have to understand the fabric of the organization that you represent, not just internally either. You know, even, what are the macro factors impacting, for example, the finance industry or the automotive supply chain, yeah, the supply chain, the logistics, you know, the talent, the labor laws. You know, we're across Europe. It's very jurisdictions are different across all of the EU countries. So I think, genuinely in my career, having operational experience, and I did go back and work in the organization as well, and I stepped outside of HR. That's probably the one lesson, or the one sort of piece of feedback I would give to sort of aspiring CPOs or CHROs, yeah, is if you get, if you get the opportunity to go and work in the business, and you combine that with working on the business, I think it creates that pathway to become a really great leader. Yeah,
Chris Rainey 28:31
I can tell you, after doing one and a half 1000 of these, the most successful HR leaders that I speak to do exactly what you just described. Yeah, like every single one of them, yeah, it's very rarely. I have a chro who's just stayed within HR, yeah, you know, like they've been worked in different facets of the business, different industry verticals, different different continents, yeah. So they've got sort of the cultural nuances that they understand as a global HR leader, and then they come back, yeah, to HR seeing that is literally almost like a must, yeah, have at this point, it's just four
Sarnjit Kaur 29:02
strings to your ball. And I think there was one occasion where I know it gives
Chris Rainey 29:05
you more credibility, yeah, when you walk into the boardroom, absolutely. I've been on the front line, yeah, yeah. I know how we make money. I was in, I was in operations, yeah, my
Sarnjit Kaur 29:13
contact center examples are perfect examples of that. When I became a HR business partner in the contact center, I could empathize, yeah, because I've done the 12 hour shifts. Yeah, I've done the calls. I've taken the complaint calls, so understanding how to engage a contact center worker and what we should be doing to support them. From a culture and engagement perspective, I totally got it, because I've done the, you know the 311 shifts I've done all of the calls, and I know what it's like to go home feeling exhausted having been on the front line. And I do think it shapes your insights. I feel
Chris Rainey 29:50
like that with my sales team, because obviously I spent 20 years in sales before I started the company, and I feel the same way, like I know because I did that, I did the cold call. Calling, I did. I know how hard it is as well, and I can, like, kind of empathize with them, yeah, when I'm having a conversation, it's not for like, yeah, it's based on my experience of really understanding what they what they went through. And
Sarnjit Kaur 30:11
I think empathy, just whilst you're talking about leading with empathy that is under it,
Speaker 1 30:16
that wasn't a thing, right? Like, nobody said, Chris, we can do some training around leading with them, yeah,
Sarnjit Kaur 30:20
but that ability of like anything you touched on it putting yourself in somebody's shoes. And I always remember speaking to one line manager, and we were having a discussion about empathy versus sympathy. So that's a good distinction. Yeah, it's a good distinction. But you think about lots of business changes, transformations, lot of organizations are looking at their operating models. How can they be more efficient? There is change, transformation, restructures on the back of that, and that empathy piece is something where I think leaders in this day and age is such a skill that can give you so much insight. So you know, you, you know, you mentioned, we've got blue collar workers, we've got inspectors, we've got drivers. They will have different, you know, what they want from an employer will be different from maybe a developer or somebody in a white collar role. And it's really getting to the nuances of what does that look and be like, yeah,
Chris Rainey 31:18
no, it's super interesting, because you've got, you're serving, so many different people with different people with different needs, right? There's no There's no longer this one size fits all approach. I mean, you can't do that anymore. If you want to train and attract, you have to create. It's crazy, right? Because we've been doing this forever with our customers. We always talk about this, right? We create that personalized customer experience. We still haven't really got there with our employees, who are our most important, yeah, without them, there is no customer, definitely. And
Sarnjit Kaur 31:46
I think if you think about the world of reward recognition benefits, yeah, you know what one employee will want compared to another employee, they're two very different. 100% I made
Chris Rainey 31:57
that mistake, by the way. Yeah, I had some team members that I created some org programs for, yeah? And it was very public, yeah. And I found out maybe, like, come on, stated that, and I had a one to one with that individual, and they're like, I hate being recognized publicly. Yeah? I was like, what I thought that was like, don't know, this is how I like to be recognized. So yeah, if anyone listening, when was the last time you asked someone, yeah, how do you like to be recognized? I made that mistake, yeah. And speaking to all my team, everyone had different answers. I'm like, Oh, my God, I've been doing it, like, assuming, yeah, that putting that person on the stage in front of the whole business. They loved it. They hated it. They're like, Oh, I can't I've got to go out there, on there, which
Sarnjit Kaur 32:31
is that personalization piece, isn't it? People want different things. But I think that the way I would translate that, and I try and do this with my teams, is, I always think, you know, when the whole you talked about the ID and E agenda, and it's not for me about quarters or, you know, initiatives like that. For me, I've always said, and it was really interesting, I did an ID and E role like 25 years ago. It comes down to valuing people as individuals. Yeah. And I always think, to my teams and to our business, you treat people as individuals. You know you you are absolutely embracing that inclusion element, because people want to feel included, don't they? They want to know they've got a voice. They want to know they're being heard. And for us as leaders, our role is to create that environment where they can do that. Yeah, and
Chris Rainey 33:20
that starts with listening, yeah, truly, yeah, listening, yeah, not listening to react, yeah, just listening, yeah. I know that you got at some point the last question, what advice would you have for those sort of CPOs of tomorrow that coming up the ranks, they're going to be sitting in your senior what do you what do you know now that you wish you knew then, okay,
Sarnjit Kaur 33:41
lots of things, but I would probably prioritize it with a couple of things. I would say, definitely we've already touched on it. Positive intent, yeah, I think it goes a long way. I think 99.9% and I regularly say this to my team, is people come in to do a good job, yeah? So always assume positive attempt, intent. I would say, be curious. Yeah, setbacks, you know, failures, however you want to term it, setbacks will happen, and it's not the actual setback. It's more important on how you pick yourself up and dust yourself off. I think, I think we touched on it, the fabric of any business you know, really understand your business, understand the roles that you have, understand any opportunities that if you could do one thing differently, what would that mean from an engagements perspective? I think I talked about when I when I came into the automotive industry, I remember saying to my sort of HR leader at the time, I spent a lot of time actually in the operation and just understanding the different tasks, the different duties, what people are doing. How can we streamline and make it more engaging for them? So again, I think it comes back down to really understanding the various roles. And don't forget, role. Tools are changing. You know, the industry, all industries, are changing at a rate of knots. So I think as a CP, or as any business leader, it's really understanding, how is your business prepared for some of the not even internal factors, but some of the changes that are happening outside, in the industry and in the external environment.
Chris Rainey 35:20
Last part of that, you know, how do you also maintain your personal well being when there's so much chaos, whether it's political, whether it's pandemics, whether it's AI, you know, it's a lot going on, yeah? What? What is it that you do to take care of your own well being and ensure that you put yourself your own oxygen mask on first. Yeah, yeah.
Sarnjit Kaur 35:42
So, well, I've got two boys first for, for a start, they keep me really grounded. Yeah, they're, they're very much like, I think you've got to take regular time away, you know, I will always encourage my teams to say, like, look, when we're when, when the pressure's on, clearly, you know, it could be a project, it could be initiative, but take your time. Take your annual leave. It sounds really, really basic, but the number of people who will go to a long period of time with any time off always astounds me. And it's something that we do really try.
Chris Rainey 36:16
And I'm still very bad at that. Yeah, I need to get better at that. And everybody
Sarnjit Kaur 36:19
knows I do like my holidays. So I will say that that keeps me insane. But one thing that definitely helps my well being is I love running. So I know we've just had the London Marathon, so I'm not yet a marathon runner, but I have done a couple of 10 kids, but that haven't just prioritizing that me time, yeah, and that sort of time for yourself, whether it's reading a book, whether it's running I am quite you know, again, through years of experience, you get more intentional of booking that out and taking that time out. Love that Well,
Chris Rainey 36:49
listen, I appreciate you taking the time to calm down. I'm so happy we met in person. Yeah, and appreciate you sharing your insights. And I wish you all the best. Yes, until when extremely thanks.
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Sarnjit Kaur, Chief People Officer International at Cox Automotive.