How Culture Wins in the Age of AI
In this episode of the HR Leaders Podcast, we sit down with Alim A. Dhanji, CHRO at TD SYNNEX to explore how companies can protect their most valuable asset: culture. As AI reshapes work, Alim explains why empathy, values, and leadership vulnerability are the ultimate differentiators.
Drawing from his experience as CHRO and President at Adidas Canada, Alim shares a candid perspective on leading with courage, speaking the language of business, and creating workplaces where humanity still matter.
🎓 In this episode, Alim discusses:
How vulnerability builds stronger leaders
How resilience is formed through adversity
Why mental health conversations start at the top
Why culture matters more than ever in the AI era
Why HR must understand business strategy and finance
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Alim A. Dhanji 0:00
What do you think's holding other leaders back? I think it's a combination of a few things. One is partly by education. I think that the education should have more finance and tech content in there, as well as geopolitics. But also, I think there's a perception in HR that if you like people, you should be in HR, yes, you shouldn't be in leadership if you don't like people, it's not binary there. I think that HR has sometimes the wrong perception of being a soft function when I think about what's most pressing at the board level, at the CEO level, it is about leadership shortages. It's about culture change. And if you're in the US right now, dei is a big topic that I just talked to our board with a couple of weeks ago. These are all topics that the CHRO leads on. And in the past, you used to be this relationship that was tightly held with the CFO and the CEO. I think that has changed. It is more closely that the CHRO and the CEO work together and make sure that they've got the right competitive advantage in the company. And you put a sort of an AI overlay on it, my prediction is that AI is going to create much more of a denominator across organizations, because you can replicate it. You're going to have, you're going to have enough AI technology that you can replicate over and over again different companies. So then what is the unique advantage? The unique advantage will be culture. It will be about the relationships. It will be about the people coming together and making meaning of the AI solutions that are out there. And so I think HR will only continue to be a growing profession. You
Chris Rainey 1:44
AI, welcome to the show, my friend. How you doing?
Alim A. Dhanji 1:47
I'm fantastic. Finally warming up in New York, so I'm looking forward to the summer weather coming off. Yeah.
Chris Rainey 1:54
Do you to me? I know this may sound strange, but when I was last in New York and it was really hot, it was not enjoyable. The people stay in New York when it's because I'm like, like, the heat coming off the vents in the street and the busy, like, we went there, like, peak heat, I struggled. So, like, do you like that, though? Or you get out of New York when I have, I like it.
Alim A. Dhanji 2:15
You know what's interesting? Because I'm only, I've only been here for three years. I'm Canadian. Okay? It's like, I can't pretend to be a New Yorker, but actual New Yorkers, they leave, they go to The Hamptons and different spots. But what's interesting fact is that during the summer months, New York population, like the city of Manhattan, goes up by 25% up so because, yeah, because of tourists.
Chris Rainey 2:37
So everyone else leaves, and then the tourists come exactly,
Alim A. Dhanji 2:41
exactly. And so it's like, it's like a giant theme park here, and it gets quite congested,
Chris Rainey 2:47
yeah. I mean, we're there three or four times a year, like a second was like a second home for us. You know, I always love making sure I say us, the team always goes for a run around, around the park. And kind of it kind of, it's weird to being in the park, and you kind of get lost in it for a moment, forgetting that you're in a city which
Alim A. Dhanji 3:07
is quite No, it's a, it's a great luxury to have there. Yeah,
Chris Rainey 3:11
I feel like, I feel like you couldn't live there without that park. I couldn't because that it's just like a nice set of space to actually decompress in such a busy environment that you're in, yeah, as well. So, yeah, so how's it been since you've been there? Like, go from cold weather in Canada to us, it gets also pretty cold in New York as well. It does
Alim A. Dhanji 3:33
get pretty cold, but it's not, it's not as brutal. I don't find you know, New York is a walking city, and so it's a great city to just get lost in and discover new spots. You can get anything you want in New York. So I do, I do like that, and I'm a foodie, so able to yeah, all kinds of different cuisines and meeting different people. That's that's been really fun. Yeah, and the kids love it as well.
Chris Rainey 3:57
Oh, yeah. That means must be quite a change for the kids as well.
Alim A. Dhanji 4:02
Yeah, yeah. They've, you know, they've had a lot of movement. They've gone from Canada to Germany, back to Canada and now to New York, but they've been very adaptable. We're fortunate that their school is in the building we live in, oh, so they get a lot of play dates out of that, and easier commute for us. It's been fantastic.
Chris Rainey 4:23
How do you think that that impacts them in terms of their development, like, kind of, what are some of the positives that you see from there? Yeah,
Alim A. Dhanji 4:33
at first, you know, we were both a bit anxious about, what are we doing, where kids are moving them every two years, they're gonna have roots anywhere. But what I found is that they've become very adaptable, they become resilient, and they become much more social because they've had to reintroduce themselves over and over again. And what's amazing now, I mean, we limit their digital time, but when they are on digital it. It's quite amazing that they're talking to people friends that we approve, of course, but they're talking to people that they've met in Germany at their international school there that are now in Mexico or Korea or Australia, which is amazing. It's just an amazing experience that they're getting that type of diversity at such a young age.
Chris Rainey 5:17
Yeah, no. I spoke to many citros over the years. And who similar thing, right? They're kids. They've worked across different continents, different regions, and they say almost the exact words you said, the resilience was one piece, the adaptability, the cultural awareness, you know, because they've had to move from different cultures, and they've seen, you know, different different environments, you know, as well, and the diversity, as you mentioned, amongst their friends, as well. So it's just really interesting, like it's it's fascinating because I know many citros that may be listening right now have, uh, said no to a lot of opportunities because of those concerns. What would you what would you say to those people listening that have said no
Alim A. Dhanji 6:01
thing, yeah, it's a personal thing. I mean, for us, we don't have an extended family in New York, so that does make it much more difficult. And I travel a fair bit for my role. So, you know, you go into the work life balance discussion quite often. I'm fortunate that I have a partner who puts up with my travel and supports my career, but, you know, he's there and present for our kids, for when we need them. And so it's very personal to the family, but I have a bias, obviously, towards giving them as much exposure to different people, different culture, different foods. So that's been quite good for us. And so even though we're in New York now, yeah, they they often want to go to different parts of the world. It's strange our our place mats at dinner are actually maps,
Chris Rainey 6:52
laser, place maps, place maps
Alim A. Dhanji 6:55
exactly, and they're spotting out countries. They're reminiscing about this place, that place. It's fantastic to see them grow up as global citizens.
Chris Rainey 7:05
Yeah, I thought one of the most coolest things I ever got, robbing my daughter six, was a, like, a map puzzle, and like, each country was the shape of the puzzle piece. And now she'll randomly, like, ask me questions around countries that I don't even know about, and and she's like, the cure, and she knows where it all is, because she's done this puzzle like so many times. And she's like, said to my wife the other day, she's like, I want to visit here and in here, and then maybe we could go over there. And like, she knows where it is modern I do as an adult. And she's like, it kind of opened up a curiosity in her that I never and she's, like, looking on YouTube at these countries and like, she's like, and I was like, Wow. I was like, she This is really intro. I thought this just was a normal, simple puzzle, but it just sparked a whole level of curiosity in her to do that.
Alim A. Dhanji 7:53
I think, for the for this generation, borders are truly flat. You know, they've grown up in a digital age, yeah, not in the same way that we might have and so I do think that their curiosity and their desire to think about the world is flat is opening up new doors for them, and certainly working from home, people now also work from across the world. So it's given, it's given a new definition, new meaning to what it really means to be in sort of borderless environment.
Chris Rainey 8:25
You're right, because, like, when we were kids, you, you, if you wanted to see a friend, you, you had to physically get out the house, go and knock on the door, like, like, kids will probably never understand. Like, like, if I couldn't find Shane, I didn't know, because we didn't have phones, like, when we were really young, so you didn't know, you called the house line and was like, is Shane there? Whereas Robin, we've had neighbors that have moved, and we've moved a few times, and she still connected them through digital, right? We've approved them. She'll still have like, approved kids on her Roblox game, does she still connected with, right? Whereas, like that just wasn't a thing. So you're right, then it makes it truly flat for them. They're still connected, even for a digital layers and and in some ways, if we link that back to the workplace, we're going through that evolution ourselves, of our employees, as we've moved to more hybrid model, right? Have you seen interesting correlation to see there?
Alim A. Dhanji 9:19
Yeah, we're going through that. I mean, we've got a very distributed workforce. We're in 55 countries, 24,000 people, but also different job families, right? So we've got a large sales force that are not always in the office. Then we've got people that are in warehouses. We have one of the largest supply chains in the world, and they're there five days a week. You know, you can't, you can't you can't do that type of fulfillment from home. And then we've got a lot of people in global roles, and so they they do a lot of travel, they perhaps take calls in the evening. So we provide a flexible environment, and it's trying to find that balance and making sure that they've got the resources and the tools to be effective in a high touch environment or high tech. Environment, but also that we continue to foster and have purpose, purpose and reason to come into the office so that we can foster that that I touch as well, yeah, but it's a tough balance, but one that I think we we have to keep pressing on.
Chris Rainey 10:15
I know we skipped this, but take us back. What was your route into? HR? Was it a traditional route? Like did you choose HR? Did it choose you? Somewhere along the way,
Alim A. Dhanji 10:25
it chose me along the way. I mean, what's interesting just about me is I started off in the mail room, and it was a summer gig, and I kept on getting myself fired every week because I was doing something, and I found a process improvement. And I would, I would let my managers know that, you know, there's a machine that can do this. And they found the machine that did it, and I was out of a job. And that happened three times over the summer. I just, I guess I didn't learn quick enough that this is not a good thing. But in the end, it was time to go back to university. And I was 19 years old, and I get this call from the executive vice president Marnie, and I was stunned, because she said, there's an opportunity that I should apply for. And I did, and it was a project analyst role that was designed for me to look at processes and figure out how to make them better. So it was a fancy title called Business Process Engineering. And when I got into that, and I was ecstatic, because as a 19 year old, getting a full time job, earning $39,000 and your university paid for in the evenings, was like jackpot. To me, yeah, wow, right. It was amazing. And for me, especially from where I've come from, that that's a lot of money. So So I did that, but what I found myself is just, rather than looking at processes that were broken, I started talking to people, and we never had an idea suggestion program in the organization. So I suggested to her that we have something called idea bank, and then somehow that fell into HR, because it was about employee involvement. Is about listening to the people that are actually doing the work, and understanding how we can make them more productive. And so that, that was my entry into HR. And then I've just, I've just loved it since then,
Chris Rainey 12:20
yeah, and you've been in and out of the profession, right?
Alim A. Dhanji 12:24
I have, it's not because I've, I've fallen out of HR, it's, it's more that I've always had this heightened sense of curiosity and and desire to learn, and so I've, I've, by design, wanted a global career. I've always been interested in sort of the world, so I purposely moved out of the organization that I was in to be in an international organization. And that was by design, but it was, it was my first expat assignment, actually, that I was in Hong Kong. And my manager at the time, I think it's because she couldn't get the funding to get the role that she wanted, and therefore she just gave me a double hat. But I'd like to believe that maybe she saw a little bit more potentially me to do something beyond HR. And so I started doing M and A type of work. Oh, really. And that really was amazing, because I was learning so much more so so quickly, because it's hyper competitive in Asia. And then that that trend kind of followed me. I went from from being in that role to KPMG, where I was leading HR for the global tax function. It's hyper international there in 180 countries. And then in that role, as well, my managing partner asked me to take care of finance in addition of HR, why not? That's happened over and over again, and I think that that's been a great gift, because it's pushed my boundaries, and it's got me to get different perspective as an HR leader, yeah,
Chris Rainey 14:03
what would you say is, like the most, the biggest lesson that you learned in those external roles that's helped shape you now as a leader in this current role,
Alim A. Dhanji 14:14
I think partly it's when you enter a role like that, to be vulnerable, to be humble, and you leave your your business card at the door when I went, when I was at KPMG, you know, it's a partnership model. It's not a corporate and there are 7000 partners at the time, all who feel that they own a piece of the company. So regardless of having a fancy, Global Title, it is all about earned authority. It is about articulating how you're going to create value and influencing a decision. And it that takes a little bit longer, but once that decision is made, then they move really quickly. But being there for four years that I think, you know, the diplomacy that taught me was, was amazing. Yeah. But it was actually not until I left a global talent role that I was in at Adidas to be president of Adidas Canada, where my perspective around how HR can really Level Up was found because I was now in a role receiving the content that I was peddling in my global talent role, yeah, and at the end of the day, when you're, when you're, you know, at least at Adidas, you've got mid 20s age managers in stores selling shoes and shirts. They don't have time, they don't have to, you know, 15 page PowerPoint. They're getting stuff from marketing, finance, loss prevention, so on so forth. We have to figure out how to land our material practically, pragmatically and and results oriented. So that really changed my lens around being more business focused and how to drive value.
Chris Rainey 15:54
Yeah. I mean, how do you practically do that? Is it going into stores and truly understanding, like, what these what they're doing day to day, like, you know, there's no easy way of doing this, so to understand what your approach was, you know, obviously we can do surveys and listening, you know, etc, but what? What best for you? Yeah,
Alim A. Dhanji 16:14
for me, I think it was much deeper rooted in the sense that I have a desire to get into the economics of how the company makes money. You know, we're not a not for profit. Most organizations in corporate are not and therefore, what is the value chain? What's the value creation opportunities? And if, if you don't understand that and understand the real business drivers and how you create operating leverage in an organization. I think, as an HR leader, you are limited, and you're focused more on the fringes of engagement and creating a happy environment, perhaps some programs to facilitate. But I find that the more business and financial acumen you have, the deeper you can, you can you can go in terms of your value creating, but also at the table. You know, once you have the seat at the table, then it's more about, how do you use that seat? And if you have financial acumen, you can go toe to toe with the CFO and other business leaders around what the right decisions ought to be, not not just from a social and moral perspective, but actually to create the value in higher performance. Yeah.
Chris Rainey 17:27
I mean, that was the we had a session yesterday with Dave Warrick, and that with to an hour session. And if you've ever read any of days work, that's kind of what he leaves. If HR is not HR, HR is the business, right, and it's our customers and working backwards from there. And like, there was, like, you know, we had, we had CHROs joining from all over the world and, and what you just shared was kind of part of a lot of the breakout discussions of how the most successful think about this through the lens that you're discussing, but that's still in my experience, still the minority. Unfortunately, you know, I'm kind of like in a little bubble where I get to speak to great people like you every day, but when I kind of come out of that, I realized that we still haven't come you know, it's kind of a very there's only a few that are really doing that. And I completely agree with everything you just said, how, how do you what do you think is holding other leaders back from, from, from, from like yesterday? One of the things that kept coming up was, Is it because of the way that HR professionals are currently being educated? That was one of the conversations that came out of it. So the current education system for HR hasn't caught up, right? You know? So is that part of it? Like, what are, in your opinion, what are the things that are still holding us back? Because, no, I don't think anyone listening will disagree with you, but for some reason, we still, we're still not there yet.
Alim A. Dhanji 18:59
Yeah, I think it's a combination of a few things. One is partly by education. I think that the education should have more finance and and tech content in there as well, as well as geopolitics. And I'll come back to that point in a second as to why geopolitics, but, but also, I think there's a perception in HR that you sort of, if you like people, you should be in HR. That's, I mean, yes, but you should, you shouldn't be in leadership if you don't like people, like it's, it's not binary there. I think that HR has sometimes the wrong perception of being a soft function. And when I think about what's most pressing at the board level, at the CEO level, it is about leadership shortages. It's about culture change. And if you're in the US right now, dei is a big topic that I, you know, just talked to our board with a couple of. Weeks ago, these are all topics that the CHRO leads on. And in the past, he used to be sort of this, this relationship that was tightly held with the CFO and the CEO. I think that has changed, and it is, it is more closely that the CHRO and the CEO work together and make sure that they've got the right competitive advantage in the company, and you put a sort of an AI overlay on it, my prediction is that AI is going to create much more of a denominator across organizations, because you can replicate it. You can have, you can have enough AI technology that you can replicate over and over again different companies. So then what is the unique advantage? The unique advantage will be culture. It will be about the relationships. It will be about the people coming together and making meaning of the AI solutions that are out there. And so I think HR will only continue to be a growing profession. Wow,
Chris Rainey 20:57
so much to unpack with what you just said there. But like the I'm with you on the AI piece. I feel like it's a great equalizer now, where anyone can create any product or replicate it to your point, and then your people and your culture to become the differentiator. So I'm so with you on that. And the barrier to entry is so low now than it's ever been before, like even when Shane and I started our business, like eight years ago, the fact that I could, kind of like use online tools to have no experience with web development and build a website and then add a payment gateway and launch a marketing platform, all by watching a couple of YouTube videos, and For also, just for a couple of 100 pounds, you would need an entire team back then, and so much technical knowledge AI is just 20x that exactly, do you know, like I'm building apps, just by just asking my current, you know, we've built Atlas copilot, not sure if you checked out, we built our own AI copilot Atlas, and we've, you know, rolled this out into some of the world's leading companies to help upskill and reschedar HR leaders in a team. And we're a team of 10 people. HR is and I'm competing with the biggest, biggest LMX, lxps and LMS companies and HCM in the world right right now, because I have access to be able to do that, right? And our team, you know, of engineers, are in Nigeria, right? So talking about the fact that the world is so connected and flat, it's incredible. It's never it's
Alim A. Dhanji 22:34
just a new reality, I think. And the sooner you can understand that and figure out how that implicates your operating model and the type of culture you need for that to to thrive. I think you're going to be in the winning position. Yeah,
Chris Rainey 22:52
one of the things you mentioned, for example, the the geopolitical side. You mentioned the impact around the AI on that. You know, my wife posts one on the top dei podcast. She interviews chief developers every day, so she's having some fun chats right now, as you can imagine on her show, some interesting conversations happening. How do you manage as a chro, this constant disruption and change and so many things flying at you from every single side, where it's a pandemic, wherever it's politics, where it's, you know, like it's just so much like, how do you, how do you manage that, like, and compartmentalize that?
Alim A. Dhanji 23:34
Yeah, it's been, it's been tough, to be very honest, the last five to seven years, our roles have shifted from not just being CHRO, but Chief,
Chris Rainey 23:48
chief. Crisis officer, let's just say it.
Alim A. Dhanji 23:50
Crisis officer, that's right. Crisis officer, you're sort of like a meteorologist. You know HR leaders have become meteorology because you're trying to forecast what's going to happen to tornadoes that are coming, et cetera, et cetera. And often, leaders will look to the CHRO to help manage the culture and make sure that the vibrations are being settled, but also that in our organization, we've got 24,000 people. We're so dispersed, we want to make sure that we are supporting them in the best way possible. But I believe that for HR leaders, it has been, it's been really tough, because you've been at the front of that and it can be emotionally draining, because a lot of these conversations are not simple, you know, they're they're emotionally charged, and you don't want to create a wedge in an organization, or at the ELT level, or at the board. So it's a lot of stakeholder management, how I cope, I think both professionally and personally, I think it's important to look at that, that sort of perspective from from a professional perspective, a lot of what we went through the last seven years, there's no 10. But there was no template around the pandemic, right? So I think again, don't try to be the hero and come in with the playbook. This is about being vulnerable and saying, we don't we don't know the answers, but we're going to figure out things together and then throw some some leadership around the how we're going to do that. And being open and honest has always helped. The second tool that I've sort of found really valuable over the years is the importance of having listening sessions. And far too often, leaders jump to a conclusion, but that is not what the people need right now, and so why not just take a little bit of time to listen, have conversations, understand where people are coming from, meet them where they are, what their lived experience is, and then you shape a response that balances not only the business outcomes that you desire, but also how to make sure our people are in the right position, so that from a coping mechanism of sort of prioritizing and compartmentalizing things internally has helped. But let's face it, the last five, seven years, we've been on overdrive, 7080, hours a week and emotional topics. For myself, I found it really powerful to connect with fitness, and so I've created rituals around my life, to 5am to 6:30am doesn't matter where I am in the world, if it's at a hotel or here in New York, I'm at a gym, and that's helped me stay sane and find the balance. So everyone has their own sort of what do you do? It's been Yeah, for you as well. I'm sure,
Chris Rainey 26:38
100% and I haven't been the best. I mean, I've kind of gone through highs and lows, to be honest, of this. And for me, unfortunately, it resulted in, like, burnout, anxiety, anxiety attacks, actually. And I would have, like, this sort of eight months sprint, and then two months trying to and I've been, I've just come off the back of one of those burnouts. If I'm being honest, I was sick for the last couple of months. Had to take some time out, but it's hard because, you know, you always, there's always, you always give yourself an excuse of why you have, like, there's, I have to be here because I need to do the podcast. I need to do certain things. I'm like, just sort of like, coming to the reality of, like, hey, in order for me to serve everyone else, I need to take care of me first, right? Whereas I always used to make the excuse of, I'm doing this for my wife, I'm doing this for my team, I'm doing this my daughter, but like, I'm just almost like, in denial, right? That I need to actually look after Chris first. So for me, three things, right? Like, is sleep, diet and exercise. Like, they're, like, my three pillars and kind of, like, I think of them, like, it's like a tripod, and if you're missing one leg, it kind of just you can't stand. And so I try and prioritize my sleep. I've got my Garmin on right now, where I Track, track everything that you physically can on that I have. Like, I mean, if we're gonna go into detail, from a sleep perspective, I have like a mattress which is kind of like a certain temperature. So I so I sleep at like 17 degrees, which sounds strange to people listening. So it kind of plugs in just a little water cooler on the side of the mattress cools it down. My wife has hers really hot. She loves being really hot. I think that's pretty normal. I have a sleep mask. I have, like, you know, I have a whole fit, a whole blackout blinds, like, you know, everything next level dialed in, you know, as well. Like, yeah. And then, from an exercise perspective, I kept kind of making the excuse about gym, so I ended up just building a gym in the garden, at the end of the garden. So I get up early, like exercise there before the day, because if I don't, I am not doing it after I kept kidding myself, because I'm just exhausted by the end of the day. So get it in early. Otherwise I'm not doing it. And then, from a health perspective, that's a bit, I mean, eat a diet perspective, I haven't eaten today, so it's, it's 4:27pm, so I fast a lot, so I haven't even I'm I'm kind of getting hungry, but I'm mainly eating like one meal a day now. So which is, I feel I never do podcasts when I've eaten. I always doing fasted because I feel like I'm way more alert and, like, the mental clarity that comes, yeah, with that, because you're not like, you know, after you eat, you just feel like everybody's trying to digest so, yeah, so like, that's been kind of, I mean, again, not all, I say all of those things, but doesn't mean I do all of those things all the time, but I'm trying my best, and I fall off. And I think one of the things is my team, I've been a lot more open and vulnerable in my team about how I've been struggling, whereas in the past, I used to hide it, like, you know, when I would have, like, you know, I had panic attacks for over 10 years, more than that, 15 years, and no one knew. My wife didn't know. My co founder didn't know, my employees didn't know, and I was ashamed to talk about it, because I didn't know what was how. Happening. I didn't know, you know, it's like, are they gonna respect me as a CEO, as a husband, as a dad, as a friend, like, what are they gonna think if I say that, I feel like I'm having a heart attack and I can't leave the house? Yeah, you know. And
Alim A. Dhanji 30:13
yet, and yet, it's, it's something that is so natural, and the more I talk about it, because I can resonate with what you're talking about. You know, over the years, I've managed anxiety in different ways, and some of it has been more around meds, and some of it have been more around fitness. But you find, you find what works for you, and then you have sort of that ritual for yourself. But I'm surprised how still in you know 2025 it's taboo to talk about mental health, 100% and anxiety. If you talk to most CHROs and look at the benefits in organizations, the top three prescription drugs are depression, anxiety and ADHD, and so it is normal, and I would love to normalize this conversation. We're going to be doing a lot more in month of May, as we get into mental health month, with a company here in New York called Project Healthy Minds, which is going to create much more awareness around mental health. So this is an area I'm quite passionate about now, and I want to lead this for the company and make sure that people feel they've got the access to resources, and also that it's okay. Yeah.
Chris Rainey 31:30
I mean, this is a big issue, and I didn't, oh no, we didn't plan on talking about it. So I'm glad we are right now, because the moment I kind of, the way I found, the way I opened up about this is that I was interviewing a guy called Tim London, who was the, at the time, the chief global, Chief Learning Officer of Unilever, and he came on the show and on the podcast and spoke about the fact that he'd been on two months mental health leave. And I was like, what, wow. Okay. And he was sharing, and I was like, wow, here's this in amazing leader that I, you know, look up to and respect being vulnerable. And it just kind of threw me back, because I like all of the fears that I had. He was sharing a lot on the podcast. I think we even, I think it was even live on LinkedIn. I think was doing a LinkedIn live once, I was like, wow. And that was what inspired me. And I, during that podcast, I shared with him how I feeling. That's how everyone found out how crazy, right? So he made me feel safe. And I was like, I've never told anyone this, Tim, but I'm going to tell you this, and I can't believe I'm doing it on the podcast. Of all things, but like and then I, you know, shared that with my wife and Shane and the team. And the first thing that came out was, like, all of those fears were unfound. That was the first thing. And in fact, it brought it brought us closer together. Had way better relationships. There was people in my team and both in my company and my friends and family who were who were all struggling the same way? But none of us were talking to each other. Some my closest friends, you know, some of them were in therapy, and I see them on a weekly basis, and I had no idea, and here I am. So I says that it just like, blew my mind, right? Like the amount of people, and I had many CHROs reach out to me that on LinkedIn and saying that, hey, I'm feeling the same way. You know, I did, shortly after that, I did an interview with uh Nabila ekstabalan, who's the was the CHRO of Walmart Canada, and she came on the show to share, like, how she had a anxiety attack whilst driving home and had to pull over on the highway, and, you know, didn't know who to talk to, what to do. And she's now actually on her own journey. I think she's, she's left Walmart and wrote a book and kind of really trying to push this out there as well. So during that time, we actually launched ripple, our global well being summit in the middle of the pandemic. We had 3000 CHROs join that event. It was myself, Arianna Huffington, from five global Nabila, she was at Walmart at the time, and we partnered with a company called well hub, which then was gym pass, to put it together, and it was like one of the most impactful things we've ever done. And we and we continue to do the event every year, and we made it digital because we wanted to try to have the ripple effect globally and make it free. And anyone who wants to attend can join, can join, join that. But yeah, I'm with you. Is I'm so passionate about this topic, we actually started a series. I'm not sure if you've seen it on LinkedIn. It's called the work life wellness series. So every week, if every week, for the last 12 weeks, I've had a global head of well being on a new show we launched, sharing some of the great work that they're doing, just really trying to get it out there. And it can be simple things. It doesn't mean it's expensive solutions or technology, basically, like simple practices, like you just mentioned, that actually sometimes are the most impactful things as well. So yeah, we could do a whole show about I'm
Alim A. Dhanji 34:57
glad that you're bringing awareness to this. It's the critic. Topic, and you've got to be supernatural not to experience some type of anxiety or worry. Think about what's happening in the world and what's what we've gone through the last, yeah, you know, five or seven years. So it's great that we are talking about this more openly.
Chris Rainey 35:17
No, I appreciate you sharing as well. Like, I mean, yeah, it's, you know, I, I, it was really, I had to have surgery, you know, like I was, like, grinding my teeth so much that I was waking up in the morning with so much blood in my mouth, was so stressed, and I had, I wore all the cartilage away in my jaw, because from the grinding diets, actually have, like, surgery for my jaw, like, just because there was so much like tension, you know. So now I have to, I still now sleep with a mouth guard just because of that, like, so like, this is, yeah, I never thought I would talk about this stuff, you know. But now, like, I realized that if Tim never shared his story, I would never have shared mine. Yeah, that one, I'm that like now I think whenever I put this content in, one person hears this and it helps them. It's worth it, yeah, you know? And I think because I was one of those people that heard someone else, right? So that's why we named it ripple because we were like, We need to have this ripple effect to get out to as many people as possible. And if you've ever attended any of our events and our theater around tables in person, we always have a session dedicated to wellbeing, like it's so important, and HR leaders are some of the worst culprits in terms of taking care.
Alim A. Dhanji 36:31
I agree. I try to role model it. I was sitting at dinner with Laura CHRO at Hilton, and she and I were sharing the same things, and she's on these public boards and a full day job, etc, etc, but we find, we find sort of solace and fitness, and I think that's helped. But, you know, I think you raise a really interesting point, Chris, and your leadership also, and transparency around what you've gone through is the difference maker in what people expect of leaders around relatability, because there's this wide gap between leadership and sort of non leaders, and the reality is that there need not be. It's not a hierarchy, and there's been a lot of trust lost in leadership over the years, whether it's political or institutional, I think by being vulnerable, being authentic. And you know, learning from all the work that Amy Edmondson has done, from from from Harvard around psychological safety, it's what drives inclusion. And if you're able to be open and honest with your team, you saw that that made you stronger, yeah? But you've got to be comfortable with yourself first and then have the courage to have those conversations. Yeah,
Chris Rainey 37:49
I actually had Amy on a few months ago on the show. I always value our conversations. And I think the hard thing is, like all of your instincts tell you the opposite, like, I didn't feel if I worded that correctly, but you know, you it's really tough, like, to get beyond that, like, because what I realized is, like I had anxiety about having anxiety. So my anxiety was fueled by the fact that I was having anxiety attacks. But I couldn't tell no one. So it was like a vicious loop. And the moment I started speaking about it, I've never had a panic attack since, because now, like kind of, when people ask me to explain it, it felt like a pressure cooker. It was sort of building, building, building, release. And then the pan attack, panic attack is so now, whenever I feel like kind of pressure cooker building, I'll let my wife know. I'll speak to the team I am having a day off, or I'll realize that I haven't been sleeping well recently, eating well and exercising. And I know if I keep those three things in check, I'm less likely. Also allows me to have some accountability partners so my team will notice it and feel comfortable and psychologically safe enough to say, Hey, Chris, we've noticed that. X, and I'm like, Okay, I appreciate that, right? Like, that's so cool to be able to, like, I've noticed that, yeah, and I can have the same conversation with them. Hey, I've noticed that you've been turning up to meetings, excellent, you know, like there's and it's just become like a language. We can have a conversation. It's not like a you know, it's not a taboo anymore to you don't need to book a day off to have a well being day, right?
Alim A. Dhanji 39:35
Fundamental, fundamental to a high performance team, right?
Chris Rainey 39:39
Stigma, though, right? So one of the stigmas is that which I've found, and my team, or and people I speak to, is that people assume that these high performers, they're the ones struggling the most, some in some cases that I've seen. So they look at these high performers thinking of like you really and actually say some high performers are the ones that are putting themselves under. The most stress and the most pressure, but you don't see it, because you just see them as someone who's really successful, right? Whereas that. So that was a big misconception that I kind of saw like, and when I spoke to people like you, Chris, really you're always seeing like you're doing so well. You started the company, you're doing all this. And I'm like, Yeah, but like, inside, I was hiding this. You know, very good disguise on the outside as well. You
Alim A. Dhanji 40:27
remind you, reminding me of something that. Have you read the book grit, by Angela Duckworth?
Chris Rainey 40:34
No, I know of it, though I haven't. I've recommended a lot on the show. You
Alim A. Dhanji 40:39
have to read it the last time, and you should actually get her on the show. But last time you and I talked, we talked about our sort of our mutual paths around adversity and how we grew up, and we had a little bit of pity party around our backgrounds and all that. But I read this book, and I kept on thinking about what we had talked about, and it's what drives that endurance, because endurance is rare. And there's something that Angela says around enthusiasm is common, but endurance is rare. And her the whole premise of her book is that persistence, let me get this right. Persistence, purpose and passion are often more important than raw talent.
Chris Rainey 41:28
I agree with that 100%
Alim A. Dhanji 41:31
the adversities that you shared with me about you growing up, and the adversities that I've shared, I think they create this drive from within that you can overcome. And so as you talk about the anxieties and and the stress that we've all been under, I'm not surprised that given where you've got to you found the tools in the community to get past it, and that's where true growth happens. And that's that's phenomenal.
Chris Rainey 41:59
Yeah, I never looked at it that way. And I mean, in the last part, you just said, because I always, I took grit, the part that I went I didn't really focus on is, like, the that's now that grit and the fundability is actually a strength, not the weakness. That was the hardest thing to overcome for me, that was it like I just, I just now, I say, you know, the vulnerability, which have we said the word so many times during this podcast, is, is a superpower, whereas before it was like my biggest weekly went from my kryptonite in my mind to my superpower, and that was such a hard shift to to and it was Only through other people, again, like Tim and others sharing their experiences. Like, really, even then, I was like, skeptical. But when I, you know, spoke to the team, I was like, wow, it's like, not just me, but everyone around me. This isn't, this isn't just me. This is like, everyone's suffering in silence. And I was like, that's, that's horrible. I was like, and then, and I'm very fortunate to have this platform and the ability and the network to be able to make a difference. So, like, I mean, that's why I'm actually doing a new series, which maybe I haven't even announced this. This is the first time anyone's gonna hear about this, but I'm building a new series called in motion where, where it's like a HR leaders original series, where I spend a day with different leaders and CHROs and we do a sports activity that they like. And then we I do like a sort of interview, whilst we're kind of like doing it. Then I've done a few of these. I did like a downhill mountain biking one in the past with the Global Head of well being, from racket, from rb, we've done a couple of them. I did like Tim and I from Unilever went for a mindfulness walk through the forest and had a great chat. So whenever I next to you, we gonna have to figure out I love to have you as part of in motion, because I'm just trying to, like, bring more awareness to it through creating content that's engaging and that people can really, truly connect their hearts and minds beyond some of that, some beyond some of the traditional stuff. Yeah. So, no, that's the first time I've ever mentioned it. But, yeah, I'm filming the series now as we speak with different leaders, and it's, you'll be fascinated as well. Like, when you you see some of the leaders that are part of the series and what their hobbies are, like, that's, that's also part of it. I'm like, wow, that's your hobby. Like, it's super interesting. Let's go and do that together, and I'm hoping it encourages others to also revisit some of their passions and hobbies. You don't have to give that up for your work. And I did that. No. So I'm starting one other things I'm trying to do is reconnect, you know, I grew up break dancing, I grew up skateboarding. I'm starting to reconnect with some of those hobbies and passions with my daughter, actually, which is even amazing. I get to experience it more special. Yeah, it makes it more special as well. And I thought that you couldn't have both. You know, this is thing where you see most people, they give up their when they start their career, they give up all of those things that they loved. I did it. I gave up dancing. I gave up break dancing, Shang. Shane paid professional ice hockey. He gave that. He did it for the first two years of us in the company, and he was exhausted because he was trying to play games and play a professional level and build a company that was sustainable. But doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to do it once, now and again, right? Yeah, to be able to do that. So listen, man, I could talk to you forever, but I love it. I'm super excited to I'm so happy to have you on the show, and I really appreciate you taking the time my pleasure out. This is why, the reason we have to show so people like you giving your time back. So that means a lot, and it's
Alim A. Dhanji 45:32
great to great to great to share the time with you. Yeah, and
Chris Rainey 45:35
I'll see you soon Vegas. All right, thanks a lot. See you later. Take care. Bye. You.
More from the HR Leaders Podcast
Alim Dhanji, CHRO at TD SYNNEX.