Navigating the Transition: HR Leaders' Journey from Large Corporations to Mid-Sized Scale-ups

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In this episode we are joined by Aaisha Knights, Chief People Officer at LMAX Group to discuss Navigating the Transition: HR Leaders' Journey from Large Corporations to Mid-Sized Scale-ups

Episode Highlights:
- What HR leaders can expect when moving from a large corporation to a mid-sized scale-up and How HR responsibilities and priorities differ when transitioning.

- The challenges that HR leaders may face when adapting to the fast-paced environment of a mid-sized scale-up

- How HR leaders can balance the need for structure and processes with the agility and innovation often associated with scale-ups?

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Chris Rainey 0:00
Hi everyone. Welcome back to the HR leaders podcast. On today's episode, I'm joined by Aisha knights, her diva, who's the Chief People Officer at Elmax group. During episode Asia talks about what HR leaders can expect when moving from a large corporation to a midsize scale up and how HR responsibilities and priorities differ when transitioning, she also shares the challenges that HR leaders may face when adapting to a fast paced environment of midsize scale up and also how HR leaders can balance the need for structure and processes with agility and innovation is often associated with scaleups. As always, before we jump to the video, make sure you hit the subscribe button, turn on notification bell and follow on your favourite podcast platform. But that being said, let's jump in. Aisha. Welcome to the show. How are you? Thank you. No, I'm well, thank you. Thanks for having me on the show. Really looking forward to the conversation. I felt like I'm like, I feel like I'm really intimidated by yourself right now. In the boardroom.
Aaisha Knights 1:00
As well, I can't believe it's been like, like, so long since we've spoken it's been would you say before? Like, over a year, right? Since you've been in the new role? Over a year? Yeah. So I've been in this role since December of 21. So we're coming up to a year and a half now, which is bizarre, really flown.
Chris Rainey 1:19
Tell everyone a little bit more about your sort of background and journey. And then a little bit update on sort of the company right now. Just to give a bit.
Aaisha Knights 1:28
Well, backgro und now you're gonna make me think about the last couple of decades of my career. Yeah, I'm not as young as I look. But we my career has been quite varied. So at the moment, I mean, you know, FinTech or financial services, albeit with technology. Prior to that, I've worked at various different organisations from commercial property firms. To you want to name them? Sure. Are you sure you can name a couple? Yeah. So I mean, when we met, I was at TJ X group, which of all them TK Maxx and HomeSense fame. So I was there for a little bit. Prior to that, I was in the entertainment industry, talent management sectors, there's still the HR director, people officer, etc. role. So I was there for a couple of years.
Commercial property was a big ones I worked at Hammerson and the company would never heard of called GLP, who basically designed warehouses for Amazon. Prior to that, I spent quite a long time, I spent some time at Barclays, which everyone would have probably heard of global company KPMG, for many years, prior to that, just the PR sector. And I started my career back in, gosh, in the 90s at McDonald's, purely by accident. So that was kind of getting involved in a lot of the people related stuff and, you know, orientation of colleagues. And at that point, my manager at the time said, Well, you enjoy all this stuff. Why don't you just do it? So you know, don't worry about the tilde, don't worry about the chips and the burgers as you do the kind of people stuff, the date, there was an HR database that at that time, if you think about mid 90s It wasn't a lot of the workforce that had worked with computers, if you can think of a time wow, like that. So because I was in college, and I was a student and I was using computers. Oh yeah, it was this database or this, you know, personnel details can you do it? And of course I'll do it. And that's
Chris Rainey 3:34
so you act That's literally how you fell into this whole career trajectory completely by accident. Yeah. Wow. That's, that's pretty normal, though. To be honest. Like most people I speak to very rarely did they choose a career doing this, like, like that as a crazy crazy example, but like, Alright, you're young, you're good at computers, student, we've got this set of base people, people manage your database. Can you do this and now you now how many years later so what so you've worked with many large companies, what was it what was it that attracted you to this Chief People Officer role in a in a would you call it a scale up?
Aaisha Knights 4:12
Alcon is kind of Absolutely. So to scale up so Elmax group in 2021 God's private equity backing from JC flowers and if you've heard of them, they're pretty big PE house and they they specialise in financial services. And they USPS I think they in New York. So they, you know, believed in the organisation. There was a 1 billion valuation and then they paid they bought a section of the company. They invested rather in a section of the company kind of
Chris Rainey 4:42
had a 1 billion valuation. Yep. Wow.
Aaisha Knights 4:45
Dollars. Yeah, in dollars. So and that was because obviously the company was scaling up, but the company's been around for about over a decade. They've been around and they've kind of built their business, you know, steady delay, and then go on to this inflection point where it's time to scale up. And then you do your best. Yes. And then, you know, my door was knocked on. And I was like, Oh, I You should there's this opportunity. And I was happily at TJ X at the time when I was approached about this role. But it just, it was really exciting. I would say the proposition what, why am I interested? Why was I interested in the role it was a chance to, I think really make a difference. And and as we talk about kind of some of the questions you're gonna ask me, I'm very big on legacy and what I can leave behind how I can make things better. And you tend to find in large organisations, there's a lot of Been there, done that. So you can run a part of the business, but you're not really reinventing the wheel, you're not bringing something new to
Chris Rainey 5:47
you don't have an opportunity to create something from the ground upwards, right?
Aaisha Knights 5:49
Basically, I'm a creative, I'll just say that's what I tried
Chris Rainey 5:53
to do didn't really the opportunity to set the foundation, build something fresh, basically, what was the what was in place already, when you joined that effort? Did anyone
Aaisha Knights 6:02
deviate? No, they did. They had a, you know, good HR function it was doing obviously, the day to day people got paid all of that, I'll definitely say on that there was a great foundation to kind of land on. But if you're talking about kind of the Chief People Officer space, the extra, you know, the added stuff that we as HR practitioners need to deliver these days as in the well being the DEI, you know, even down to compensation benefits that you know, even down to a tie, it's completely different to how it would have looked 10 years ago. So that's why I was kind of drafted in with, I guess my experience over those industries that I mentioned at the beginning.
Chris Rainey 6:43
How did like the one who's that's interesting talk to you about is because it's very different right from working in the scale up being an HR leader versus a large someone companies, you mentioned, how did the HR responsibilities differ? When transitioning from a large company to a mid sized scale up? Like, can you just share some examples of the specific things that you're doing now that you perhaps weren't doing in a larger organisation,
Aaisha Knights 7:07
in a large global organisation, you can imagine you're quite not, I won't use the word, I'm trying to think of the best word, you've got a specific thing to do. So if I talk about a big company, like Barclays, when you're a business partner, you just do that you're just there influencing and coordinating with the business. Whereas in a scale up, you get to touch many different parts of the HR disciplines. So one day, I could be designing a bonus scheme. The next day, I could be getting involved in CSR activity, because that in this company that also falls under my umbrella. Another day, I could be advising on an ER case, for example, maybe a quite senior one. And then the next day, I'm talking to someone about our Singapore office. And that refer, which is literally my morning, I was talking about the refurb or new Singapore office that we're kind of trying to roll out soon or so there's a lot there's a lot of variety, I would say. And you need to get your hands a bit dirty as in. Yeah, okay. Need to be more hands on in a scale up, and people will come to you directly versus through. You know, if I think of the large organisations, there would be a couple of layers. Yeah, before he gets to me,
Chris Rainey 8:23
you can't hide anymore.
Aaisha Knights 8:27
But you know, what, Chris, I love that I love the interaction with people. Actually, why I do it. It's, I think if you're in HR people management, and you don't actually like interacting with people, you might be in the wrong job. That constant everything.
Chris Rainey 8:42
Yeah, even the most successful leaders I speak to at the big companies, they are still taken, make a conscious effort to get out of their office, to meet people face to face to travel around different business units around the world, you know, walk onto the factory floor. So really understand what's going on, not just hearing through the multiple layers like you're describing, as well as even in, you know, companies with 100,000 employees, they still try and make a conscious effort to really understand their people, if that makes sense, not just for you today, is that they it doesn't always tell the no story to so you have to have both,
Aaisha Knights 9:16
but it's important to the people as well. Yes, exactly. I
Chris Rainey 9:19
would say she can she came here. Yeah.
Aaisha Knights 9:22
Yeah, I think half of the job is letting people feel like they're being heard. So you might have people comment, oh, they might complain or they have an issue with one thing or another. A lot of my job is just listening people and finding solutions and just making them feel on a human level level they've been listened to and they've been their ideas are being considered. You know, think there's a lot to say for that.
Chris Rainey 9:45
Yeah. All you say is like the biggest challenges that you're faced in terms of adapting to the fast paced environment of a mid sized scale up. Things can change,
Aaisha Knights 9:53
uncertainty, definitely uncertainty. And I recently had a wrote an article on LinkedIn about that exactly leading through uncertain times, there's, when you're in a business like this, that, you know, we can try and plan ahead. But ultimately, if the market moves, and we have to change tack, we just have to do that. You've got to have kind of that those coping skills to be able to kind of, not unlike not like on a whim, exactly as he's thought through. But it takes less time to make a decision here than in a large organisation where you, you know, you'd have to stakeholder and it'll be, it'll take months or even years to get things across. Here. Things can happen in a few weeks, and we execute it.
Chris Rainey 10:36
That's I can completely relate to being a small business like, yeah, we can just pivot so quickly, is agile before our competition, but at the same time, that's not easy. Like you're saying, there's, there's, you know, it's there's tough times to get through that. Yeah.
Aaisha Knights 10:52
And it can be unsettling as well. Yeah. It can be and looking at the landscapers, you know, talk about the kind of uncertain market, what's going to happen next, who knows? You know, last year, we had the whole, at least in our industry, we've had the whole FTX situation and things like that, and it's okay, how do we ground ourselves and make sure we stay on the ball? We're thinking of our priorities, we're staying on that track, you can easily get distracted, you know,
Chris Rainey 11:20
how has been in an in a scale up? Does that change the way you approach attracting talent, and talent, management and talent in terms of attracting talent to do business?
Aaisha Knights 11:31
Yeah, I think you have to work harder. And you have to build up pockets and communities that you partner with, to understand on and kind of learn about your business. If you're in a large tech, for example, or maybe a Monza, which is I guess bigger, FinTech to us. Like to name drop, there will be individuals out there that already wants to work for you already know, Monzo know. Yeah. So for ASA Elmax, we, for example, there are pockets of communities, let's say the developer community that were known in that niche, but there'll be others that were not. So now we have to tell more of a story. So for the talent acquisition team here, there's a lot more they do a lot more work on, this is who we are, this is how we operate. This is our culture, really telling the story. And I would say their skills are a lot more sharper, I guess have
Chris Rainey 12:20
to be, they have to be.
Aaisha Knights 12:23
And we rely a lot on kind of word of mouth. And you know, our ambassadors, I always say people that leave us, we want them to leave well, so they can be an ambassador because people do leave. Of course they will. Yeah. And they might and yeah, we've had some returnees as well. Yeah, they've gone out and seen Oh, actually come back, can I come back? That's always
Chris Rainey 12:45
a good thing. I love that I've got a couple employees that have left and come back and I'd love it like, you know, and I would also I don't know, I don't want to rob them off the opportunity to go out there and see absolutely should always be really happy conversation and don't get me wrong, sometimes it is like oh man, like I've got to replace this person obviously distress. But at the same time, you got to give everyone in their career their life, right, you should be happy for them and help support them anyway, you can. And I found that that and she ended up returning back like you mentioned for referrals that they make or they may come back themselves. So yeah, so it makes sense. So you got to kind of got to do a lot more work around storytelling and and a wider purpose, the mission etc. because they may not necessarily know the business as well. So yeah, but
Aaisha Knights 13:31
the other thing we do that just to mention is we do a lot around giving opportunities to people that wouldn't ordinarily get that opportunity and let's say the bigger organisations and you know, some organisations you're going to have to have done going to this university done this kind of degree or whatever. Well we've we're quite open minded. So we work with so in London at least we work with them Kensington and Chelsea foundation and they have a programme called the spear programme and what they do there is they they pair us up with kids or I guess young people that are maybe on the other the lowest socio economic spectrum they might not have as many opportunities even if they are in college etc. And then we will just do a kind of a like mentoring with Mr. CV skills and then out of those people have actually managed to hire some individuals nice in our you know, like early careers sector so
Chris Rainey 14:25
what type of roles are they go into
Aaisha Knights 14:27
so a couple of them went into the service desk, IT Service Desk someone all kind of market operations you know, something customer services, where they can learn and it can be taught that basically the job and the company and what we like to do is also give people opportunity to move around as well. So in a in a smaller scale up it's easier to do that. You're not so you can you I've never done this before by fancy going in that team or leaders and managers will come and poach people the good work So they'll be great for my team, can we, you know, once they've done it like six months with you can they come over and work in this other area? So there's a lot of that just organically that happens.
Chris Rainey 15:09
Well, that's a really good, I'm sure your team talks about that. But that's a very unique differentiator between you and a competition, right? They wouldn't have that necessarily have the opportunity at a larger organisation they wouldn't. And in a one of the things about working in the startup as well, you get to taste everything as well, like you're saying, you're close to every, it's no fun to go and work in marketing or sales operations, you know, there's, there's more opportunities for you to grow and develop your career as well, which is a big attraction. Yeah, definitely talk more about that, because that's a really exciting part, something that I actually, it was one of the things that immediately stood out for me for going from a large company that I was in before, where I was like, you're in sales, you stay in sales. You don't go anywhere else. Chris was one of the things that reasons I left because I wanted to learn more and experiment. And I actually asked if I can move into different teams. And they were like, No, and I was like, Well, I've been doing this for 10 years, I don't really want to keep doing the same thing, because I'm good at it. Doesn't mean what did you get bored? Yeah. Yeah. And that's actually ended up being a reason. Also, it's a great retention tool for you, of course, right. Amazing retention tool to be able to constantly keep people engaged and motivated, because Oh, yeah, I mean, Sue,
Aaisha Knights 16:20
is definitely one of our so one of our values that we talked talking a lot about that is about being dynamic. And that value came out of just what you can see in the business, people are quite dynamic, they move around, you know, they might go and work in another, even another country, they put their hand up and you know, advertising the wrong, they're like, well, actually, I think it'd be great, because then they put a business case forward and say, Actually, yeah, you might be great for this role. You know, maybe that's part of your development. Okay, go off and do this for two years. Yeah, in New York, or whatever. So we're very agile like that.
Chris Rainey 16:55
You sound like you're doing really well, which I'm glad to hear but isn't always the case, like I speak to loads, many CEOs who go from the large organisations to a scale up or startup and they really struggle, because they don't have to have the resources to teams to everything we kind of described. And like you mentioned, all of a sudden, they're getting their hands dirty, they're in one minute they're doing payroll next minute are doing comps, like like you mentioned, right? And they're like, whoa, like, this is overwhelming. So what what advice would you give to any HR leaders listening, though, considering moving to a start up or scale up or scale up? Yeah,
Aaisha Knights 17:30
I'd first asked yourself, why? Why do you want to move? Is it because you think is going to be exciting? Or is it because you're fed up in your current role? And understanding why we do things, especially if you're at that leader level, you should be thinking more strategically, not just kind of a well, I fell into it, not like the beginning of current is different. But as you get a bit further on your career, you want to be a bit more considered, I would ask them think about why you want to move? And what are your pros and cons? What are your absolute nice to have? And what are your must have? So that's how I would advise them to go forward with any organisation they're talking to. So if I talk about what I did in this role, for example, before I even considered a role, I had lots of conversations with David Mercer CEO around what is it going to look like? What is he actually wanting, so I can understand if I'm going to match what he's looking for. Rather than that is the job description is actually what do you want me to come and do? Yes, for two different things. Two different things. That's the question I was asked, What do you actually want me to come and do and come? And then in order for me to do that, I've said, Well, this is the team I'm going to need. What about the budget? These are the kinds of resources are require? And it's up to the CEO to say, yes, we can do that. Oh, actually,
Chris Rainey 18:43
before you got in there, right. This is quite cool. Yeah. So before even
Aaisha Knights 18:47
signed or got through, when, when we started to get to the point of, actually, oh, shoot, I think it'd be great for this role. It was okay. Let's sit down. These are the things what do you want? And what am I looking for? And it has to, it has to kind of marry doesn't it has to match so that there is and when you go back to the why there is always the reason. So I always go back to why why did I want to come to this organisation. And there are a couple of things in my mind. Definitely the opportunity to create because I've realised I'm a creative at heart. So the opportunity to create the opportunity to leave a legacy as well, which I said in the larger companies that's a little bit harder to do, right, because it's hard to push through innovation and things like that to all the layers that you may have. Right? And there's more stakeholders, right? I want to leave a legacy. And also I wanted to make a difference. I wanted the people and culture to make a difference to the people I want it to feel come into the office and feel free to feel difference, because I moved there. So those were like kind of the key and distance and things like that there were other practical things like the last job was quite far away from where I live. So was harder and harder when we got out of the pandemic and hats and things like that. But yeah, I would say ask yourself why, and just kind of match up the role versus what you need as an individual. So there's that answer.
Chris Rainey 20:14
Yeah, definitely answered it. I loved I loved the point that you made about, you got the job description, and then you got the job. Because because I've been in jobs as well, right? Like, where I've got the job description, I go in and like this Oh, versus what you want from me? Yeah. Right. And then it's too late. And you're already in? Because you, you sit down in the car and CTO? What is the biggest challenges that I can help you solve? That question alone is a big, very important question. And then you really will get an understanding. And then Okay, that's great. You want that? But are you willing to invest in X, Y, and Z people to launch etc? So you have to those are very, two very important questions.
Aaisha Knights 20:56
Questions, because from experience, I've been in organisations where they want, like a head of either head of HR HR director or Chief People Officer, they want one of those key titles, but then they just want it to be a title. They don't want you to actually do anything.
Chris Rainey 21:12
I get it. Same way. Right? We see that we see a lot of that we've been dealing Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. They want to say they have a head of DNI, right? And then, but are you actually putting the resources behind that? Are you you know, is it? Are you actually talking about it during our conversations or meetings right at the team and putting it at the heart of our culture, our wire mission, if you're not doing that, then it's just like a ticking the box exercise, as well. And ultimately,
Aaisha Knights 21:38
I think you end up not having a real voice, you're just kind of a figurehead. And yeah, I struggle with if you think if I think about why I do things, or why I'm here, I would struggle with that. And I wouldn't, I wouldn't deliver my best. So for me, there's no point if I can't deliver my best,
Chris Rainey 21:56
yeah. And that's something you're really passionate about. And it's reflected in your role with us, you know, the terminology around HR itself. What do we need to? Why do we need to change the terminology from HR to people and culture? Because it is
Aaisha Knights 22:10
about people? It's the most simple I mean, it's about people, human resources is obviously a term before. I mean, before that it was personnel, wasn't it? Like back in the day when I started? Then you've got human resources, human capital,
Chris Rainey 22:25
human capital, I forgot about our
Aaisha Knights 22:28
human capital, but really, what are we dealing with, we're dealing with people, and how they interact in a place where basically we ask them to come in and do something for us, and we give them some money for it. That's the most basic, it's an exchange, right? So it's all about the people you have dealing with that kind of exchange. And culture is, I guess, where we do it. So people are, the humans are the people and the culture is where we do it, right, and how we do it, and how we do it exactly. So that's why people and culture is really important. And getting changing that terminology and help helping people to really understand what we're dealing with here, I think is really important. So one of the things that I implemented in this role is changing that HR, to people and culture, because it then encompass quite a lot of things. So under my roommate, it's not as this is happening with other CPAs. By the way, it's not just the traditional HR part. There's also corporate responsibility. There's also the premises where we work kind of thing. It's all to do with people. People care about this a lot. There's obviously inclusion and diversity. Sometimes that also comes under the people Banner as well. There's so much that people care about more about these days that we need to look often we need to think about as businesses.
Chris Rainey 23:48
Yeah. Now you've been in the role for over a year, looking back, is there anything you'd have done differently? Given your experience being there? That's a hard one
Aaisha Knights 23:57
for me, because I'm not one to regret things I tend to learn. And I'll say, right, I wouldn't do that again. Or
Chris Rainey 24:03
what didn't you do? Again?
Aaisha Knights 24:06
I don't really have anything that I wouldn't do again, I mean, I try to walk with my values. If okay, what I might do, again, is there are some areas maybe I would slow it down before implementing it. So that people really understand what what we're trying to build. Okay, because for some individuals who may have felt like, oh my god, this is all changing is, this is a shock for those who've been around a long time. Yeah. Whereas I guess from my lens, and from my team's lens, we've gotten our mandate, we know what the board and leadership wants to delivered. Right? And then there's obviously consultation with the business and that discussion, which did happen, but there was some, I guess, some pockets they didn't quite realise it would happen so fast. Yeah. I'm someone that I'm quite focused on delivery. Like the goals I'm very quite goal oriented, right? This we've got this in place, got that in place, fulfil sofa Some people may have been a bit fast, like, oh, what's happening? It's all changing. Yeah, you know, whereas in my mind, it needs to change.
Chris Rainey 25:07
And we've all we're all I get it. I think everyone listening can completely relate to that. Yeah, we just got to kind of make sure that we sometimes take a step back and be like, okay, are these people on the journey with us duty on duty, I understand the why, like, what it means for their role in them? Because I think that's a hard part. Sometimes, you see the change happening? You're like, what does that mean, for Chris? What does that mean for my arrow, right, and then the causes that uncertainty, and then you get this when you get the push back? So I think there's always there's never gonna be, we're never gonna have everyone on board just, that's just doesn't exist. But there are times where we do need to slow down a little bit and be like, okay, then we need to make sure that this is communicated very clearly, effectively, and multiple times.
Aaisha Knights 25:51
Most people, so this isn't, I mean, for most people in this business, they're pushing us for more, they're pushing people in culture they're asking is great, I mean, for people and cultural HR person, this is great. It's a great place to be, but then you've got smaller pockets where in the people that have been around maybe for some time, and they've seen a business evolve for them, he might be okay, let's take a bit more time. And, yeah, make sure they get what we're trying to do. So all good, all for the good.
Chris Rainey 26:21
It's never it's never ending as well. So it's not like this ever ends. It's just, it's a continued conversation in the evolution as things change and develop. So you kind of constantly got to be bringing them on that journey with you. Yes, they're right. And as you said that you've got people at different stages of the career, because some people just joining the business, some people that have been around for ages, it's the way you communicate to different populations also needs to be tailored in certain certain ways as well. Otherwise, they just say, Oh, this, this, this, all of this information doesn't even affect me, you know, doesn't this is a demo aimed at Chris, as well. So just before I let you go, I'm gonna jump into our quickfire round. So I'm gonna ask you some questions, but you only have 30 seconds per answer. Oh, my gosh, are you ready? Oh, you're gonna run?
Aaisha Knights 27:10
Yeah, go ahead. Well, I guess mumbled and
Chris Rainey 27:13
you'll be alright, you'll be fine. What your hobbies and passions outside the office?
Aaisha Knights 27:17
Oh, that's an easy one. So big on interior design. Okay, love it, love interior design. Even started a course. But then I started this job. So interior design. And I think we talked about this when we first met, I'm a big lover of music, nice. Singing that kind of thing. So I'm very musical. I like a lot of that outside work. So
Chris Rainey 27:42
so next episode, you're gonna sing for us? So what you're saying is that maybe we have to, like make a song about your why and values and like mission and you sing it enough? I'm sure all the employees will then understand the why the business? If you could click your fingers and change one thing about HR, what would you change? Oh,
Aaisha Knights 28:07
I would change some of the manual processes. I think we need we need in HR to really think about what's coming, the whole kind of chatbots, AI chat GPT, etc, we need to really think about what that means and how we can how we can get ahead of that before. You know I use an analogy of the bank tellers. Right. All the banks are closing now because everybody has apps. Yeah, at least UK, so we mustn't rest on our laurels. And Phil Oh, well, they will always be a HR business partner, or there will always be certain roles, actually, how do we evolve? What's next? Yeah. So that's what I would change. We need to move faster to technology
Chris Rainey 28:47
also allows you to focus on value, add tasks, you know, more valuable and have conversations when and automate the rest of the administrative stuff, as well. Great. How do you think your family and friends would describe what you do for a living?
Aaisha Knights 29:02
Right, some would call me, like the corporate mom, I feel like
Chris Rainey 29:13
Yeah,
Aaisha Knights 29:13
the one that's always having to have a chat. And so could you have done that differently? What do you think, you know, kind of coach people through things?
Chris Rainey 29:21
Coach is a good one. Coach, Yeah, Coach,
Aaisha Knights 29:25
because I guess that's a bit like a parent as well. And I would say also a friend, not a friend for everybody.
Chris Rainey 29:32
All right, I was quite good, actually.
Aaisha Knights 29:34
A couple of different hats I have to put on it's funny,
Chris Rainey 29:37
right? When you hear people's perspectives, what legacy you want to leave behind for your family or family,
Aaisha Knights 29:43
I would say a sense of purpose, and a sense of making a difference in the world. So that, I think, is what I tried to that's how I try to live my life like what am I doing and why and I'd like to instil that in my children etc. And No, not that
Chris Rainey 30:00
amazing. Have you ever considered quitting HR and doing something else? That's a real honest thoughts of quitting, quitting HR and trying a different. Yeah, of course.
Aaisha Knights 30:15
Yeah. I've thought of quitting to be an interior designer, but I'm not they love what I do at the moment.
Chris Rainey 30:24
As you mentioned before, hit record. You're kind of renovating the office spaces and everything. Yeah, perfect opportunity for you. Interior Design. I bet you're all over it. Honestly, but you've got your books and everything. You've got your Pinterest board. All over it, love it. Love it.
Aaisha Knights 30:41
It's at home as well. I do love it. I do love it.
Chris Rainey 30:44
What would you say is the biggest investment you've made in yourself?
Aaisha Knights 30:47
I would say my professional development and education. So I'm the kind of person that if I am in a role, no, I'm always there's always either a course or something that I'm going to go and study or qualification. I'm always looking for like the next thing to not just keep myself up to date, but also to learn. I'm very much kind of someone that loves lifelong learning. So I'm always trying to
Chris Rainey 31:12
what's an example of something you've done recently, like? Well, recently,
Aaisha Knights 31:15
I am doing the CPO programme with Cambridge judge.
Chris Rainey 31:20
Oh, I saw it advertised on LinkedIn. Yeah, I saw that come up. Oh, hey, come up. Or I didn't I thought I'd turn my notifications on. No, not yours. I mean, I just saw LinkedIn advertise it to me.
Aaisha Knights 31:31
Yeah. Brilliant. Yeah. Good is a very good I mean, recommend highly recommend if, if you are a HR leader, just you know, give them give them that I'll give them that free. promo. I know, it's really good.
Chris Rainey 31:43
So when I saw it, I was like, CPOE course that Cambridge, I was like, oh, that's like, I was like, obviously, the look into it. But it was, it was interesting to see that pop up. So that's, that's it. That's what you're doing now. Amazing.
Aaisha Knights 31:54
Yeah. And what that does, it's not. Just to be clear, it's not like, what you might go and study might not be giving you anything you don't necessarily know. But it helps solidify your knowledge and also help you understand where you need to go with and how you're on the right track. And, you know, is this what other other leaders are doing other businesses? What are their challenges, as well. So I was gonna say the networking was also good on some of the courses that you can do. And you know, you can be in a bit of a bubble in your own business, you know, because obviously, we have training in houses where people can, you know, go to Udemy, everyone has access to that here, for example. But when you go out and do an external course, with another organisation, you get that cohort of like minded peers. And, you know, CPA is a lonely job. There's no one else in the business about myself.
Chris Rainey 32:46
That's why we do what we do. That's literally why we exist. That's what we do. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I love that. Who's the one person that's had the biggest impact on your career?
Aaisha Knights 32:56
It's a strange one to say, but I would say my father, no, it's not strange. It's strange. It's not strange, because I think as as I grew up, I rebelled against it, I guess, against his, he was quite an achieved, accomplished response the way now, it's quite an accomplished person in life. You know, he had a PhD in chemistry. He had property, like an empire, like he was a business person, right? Quite quite prominent person. Successful, I will say, and property developer, all of that. So it was quite high achiever. Okay, so that was always, I guess, for me, and maybe my siblings, we always had that kind of quite high benchmark or a
Chris Rainey 33:41
bit of pressure as well.
Aaisha Knights 33:44
You expected a lot of us like at school you had to do well, you had to be at the top of the class. And I think when I was younger, I kind of rebelled against that. And I was like, No, you know, not trying to be this kind of, yeah, overachiever, then I've come into my career. And I'm like, Oh, actually, that helped me. I helped me Yeah, it was possible basically, that's what I said it was a bit of a secret
Chris Rainey 34:04
figure for you a good you know, inspirational figure. You saw him working every day the hard work the dedication that he put in that rubbed off on you clearly.
Aaisha Knights 34:14
A bit a bit of that, I guess. Well, because he was that accomplished being that's why there's a strange on being a dad that was a bit neglected if I'm honest. Yeah, there's that balance. But I guess nowadays, we can balance that a lot more.
Chris Rainey 34:27
That's one of my worries as well. That's like as I never saw my dad at all growing up. And that was one of my things. When I became a dad. I wanted to make sure that yes, I'm growing the business yes, I want to create generate generational wealth for my family, but I want to be there. There's no point me doing. I was like, I don't want to do all that and then it doesn't I'm not gonna sacrifice being a present dad and husband for anything. Any amount of money. Definitely. Sorry. Even when we decided to build a studio and where we work, I was like, it has to be close to home. I don't long commute so I'll be out. To pick up rubbish from nursery or what about to spend time with, like that was all in consideration just as important as every other decision in the business as well. So and I love that I won't change it forever, like you could never get me to come work for you now, anyone. I'm like, I've designed it perfectly to fit
Aaisha Knights 35:16
to work for you. Yeah, and I'll say that That's music to my ears. You know, that's what we have to contend with these days as employers as well, it's not good enough to, you know, for people to just come in and do like the guest, the nine to five and all of that we've seen hybrid working, emerge, even remote working, we've seen things like that people are demanding more because they want to spend time with the kids, their family, or they want to go in, you know, they might have a horse, and they have to spend time with their horse.
Chris Rainey 35:44
I actually have an employee that I spent time
Aaisha Knights 35:50
working there, he was like, Well, I have to exercise the horse.
Chris Rainey 35:53
I have an employee. Yeah. Well, of the fact that we could not we never, we were never going to do this quickfire round. Well, we we just went off a semi fought we went off to I'm joking. I love it. Last question, though. What advice would you give to those CPAs of tomorrow, that are going to be sitting in your seat one day,
Aaisha Knights 36:11
I would give them the advice I'll give them is and she talked about this, lead with your values. Because you're in a very powerful position, you have the power to influence you have the power to make or break essentially people's lives and careers by how you, you know, structure, your function and how you deliver. So lead with your values and make sure when you go home at night, you can look yourself in the mirror and say, Hey, I think I did the right thing. If you're not sure, ask your team talk to people don't just go by your own judgement. I do a lot of that do a lot of hey, what do you this is a situation what do you think? Because in our profession, there's black and white, but there's a whole lot of grey in the middle. You know, there's okay what it says in the policy that we need to do. And there's also what's the human thing to do? What's the people think to do so that's what I would advise with your values.
Chris Rainey 37:05
Although I really appreciate you come on the show. It's funny, we spoke like almost two years ago, and I'm so happy for you and everything that you've achieved. Genuinely I can see like I could see it in your on your face. You have on anyone anyone watching therefore even if you're hearing you can hear how passionate you are about your you are living your values, right, like you said, and your purpose as well. But I want to see some of the interior design stuff as well. I want to see some other life pros to wanting to share the other side.
Aaisha Knights 37:37
I'll share my instagram at some point. Yeah,
Chris Rainey 37:39
no, no. Not everyone else. No worries. Well, listen, I wish you all the best until next week, and yeah, congratulations, everything. I appreciate you coming on.
Aaisha Knights 37:48
Thank you so much.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai